Gag Halfrunt
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I was thinking that the beds would be replaced but installing a basin would be too expensive or difficult.
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European Sleeper experience
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ABB125
Established Member
My immediate thought seeing this is "how much of a discount for an uncomfortable mattress?"...To digress somewhat, I was intrigued to fill out a survey from ES the other day asking for my thoughts on what I look for when it comes to comfort on night trains, and in particular on two proposed new sleeper coach offers (what they should be called, how much I would be willing to pay for each, etc).
The specifications are quite specific, so I wonder if anyone with a better head for this can figure out which new coaches they've got lined up? (It isn't hypothetical, as part of the current sharefunding round they say they've identified available stock that they need some initial funding to unlock.) I can't immediately think of any sleepers that don't have wash basins in the compartment, for example...
I can....Russian style sleeper coaches.
But not for 3 people though.
I believe that Regiojet sell couchette coaches as sleepers with one side in each compartment set up as seating and the other as bunks.
For the "comfort plus" I suspect "spacious" is relative.
Curious about the different bunk lengths. Different loading gauges? Or just corridor widths?
HS2isgood
Member
It's the ICN sleepers from Trenitalia I think. The extra 300 cars from the 370-car order will be bought soon, and the old 330 (I think there's roughly 75-80 sleeping cars) night coaches will be sold. The other option might be ex-ÖBB Comfortlines? ÖBB was going to sell a few.
Gag Halfrunt
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There are essentially no surplus couchettes or sleeping cars available, so Trenitalia selling off 330 night coaches would be revolutionary, assuming that they will all be in decent condition.
StephenHunter
Established Member
Some of the older CIWL stock had one wash basin area shared between two compartments.
Also, I did get my money back - they just didn't tell me.
87015
Established Member
I think there is - few lines of ex-CNL stock at Vrutky unused since DB finished with it and more recent displaced OBB stock parked up and slowly being smashed up around Wien this year. Let alone stored old fresh-air couchette/sleepers further east which would need a full overhaul but certainly exist. BDZ certainly have a long line of stuff which wasn’t replaced that long ago by the Turkish built stock.
Gag Halfrunt
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I meant "available" in the sense that European Sleeper or another company can rent it. Stock that is being scrapped doesn't count, nor does stock that is being stored but is not offered for rental, sale or leasing.
They say that they will try & refund me within 7 days!
For those interested, a Dutch article with an update from European Sleeper. Some takeaways:
- both Barcelona and Milan are in planning. Milan seems easiest, implying it might run first. They aim for a 2026 start, and the second line in 2027
- Milan would run from Amsterdam, via Brussels and Switzerland, crossing at either Simplon or Gotthard,
- It is likely that Barcelona would initially run from Brussels, because it would need to leave too early from Amsterdam. It seems to be implied that they are hopefully getting a better path for Amsterdam later on.
- they are optimistic about progress, but challenges remain. They do not give specifics about new rolling stock.
This draft for the application at the Dutch consumer and market authority seems to suggest a stop in Lille.
BRX
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Surprising that the HS line to Barcelona would only save about an hour's journey time, compared to the traditional route including a change of train at Portbou.
SephenWorceste
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Even easier than the old train hotel.
danshrimp
Member
European Sleeper have quietly introduced a new comfort class, "Comfort Standard", an option in between "Classic" i.e. couchettes and "Comfort Plus" i.e. sleepers. It's just a couchette but sold to max. 3 people, with mattresses on the berths and proper bedding.
www.europeansleeper.eu
Might seem a little daft at first but I see the logic. The sleeper coaches are oversubscribed and unreliable, but they've got an abundance of these more modern (a relative term when we're comparing 1990s to 1950s!) couchette coaches, so anything creative they can do to entice customers at the upper end into these is worth trying. And I'm one such customer who is likely to go for it: if you don't mind not having a washbasin in your room, but like having more plug sockets, a large pull-out table, comfy beds and essentially a permanent sofa down below - and not having your booking cancelled or downgraded at the last minute - then why not.
The Train | European Sleeper
Book a comfortable sleeper train and travel throughout Europe. Read about timetables and options for seats and sleeping compartments at European Sleeper.
www.europeansleeper.eu
Might seem a little daft at first but I see the logic. The sleeper coaches are oversubscribed and unreliable, but they've got an abundance of these more modern (a relative term when we're comparing 1990s to 1950s!) couchette coaches, so anything creative they can do to entice customers at the upper end into these is worth trying. And I'm one such customer who is likely to go for it: if you don't mind not having a washbasin in your room, but like having more plug sockets, a large pull-out table, comfy beds and essentially a permanent sofa down below - and not having your booking cancelled or downgraded at the last minute - then why not.
StephenHunter
Established Member
Regiojet already do this.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Seems a good idea though I'm surprised they have done it that way round rather than using the two beds on the 2 side and only the top one on the right, that way there would be a lower bunk which is easier to access and still a "sofa" albeit with people sleeping opposite. But I guess there are upsides and downsides of both.
Those coaches aren't 1990s, by the way, they are much older (probably 1960s-70s) but were refurbished for DB NachtZug in the late 1990s when they were reduced from 6 to 5 couchettes per compartment.
Those coaches aren't 1990s, by the way, they are much older (probably 1960s-70s) but were refurbished for DB NachtZug in the late 1990s when they were reduced from 6 to 5 couchettes per compartment.
I'm sure that the last couchettes we used had solid (non-glass) corridor doors, maybe a decade ago now. However "Privacy" means that you share with any others who get booked into the same compartment...
I think the couchette I travelled in in Italy a few years ago had a solid door with a blind in.
And I'd booked the entire compartment for me and the person I was travelling with.
The Italian ones do, horizontal slats with a knob to adjust them as I recall.
I think that I've had couchettes with about every possible form of door on my travels around Europe
That sounds right.
The coaches looked a lot newer on the inside than the outside.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Like this:
And to try to get this back on topic, here's a photo of a European Sleeper couchette compartment, albeit not one showing the door.
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may have been (un)luck but when i was downgraded to a couchette (BDcm) on ES last year it had a glass door
image per seat61
That's not untypical for sleepers I've used (outside of Italy) though a pull-down blind is possibly more common than the curtains.
That's what they were like when I went on the European Sleeper.
With curtains, though they had partly come out of the track and didn't close properly.
I only realised in the morning how easily they went back in.
BRX
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I feel like this is pretty standard for all couchette curtains I've known over the past 30 years or so.
danshrimp
Member
My complaint about the ES couchettes is not so much that the doors are see through and the curtains imperfect - though they are - but that the doors often don't completely close. There's often a small gap between the door and the frame no matter what you do, leaving absolutely zero chance of blocking out noise.
BRX
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This is really just in the nature of couchettes though. Earplugs are the practical solution.
danshrimp
Member
Absolutely, but I think questions about doors and curtains become more pertinent in a discussion about whether you can throw some mattresses and nicer duvets into these couchettes, sell them to individuals/couples and call them a sleeper. In general I like these coaches a lot and I'm willing to say yes, but if so I'm also more predisposed to grumble about their faults!