GTR Class 377/387 cascade updates 2026

[Wolfie]

A general muse: Southern's service between Brighton and Southampton makes use of 377/1, /2 and /4, which all convey the advertised first class accommodation.
But... the 387 cascades mean we also see 387/1, /2 and /3 sets used on some of the paths. I see a flaw...
Attached RTT data shows three examples yesterday and today. Two of those do not have first class seating.

Do you know what happens where a service is advertised as conveying first class (and a.First Class.season ticket might have been purchased for using on that route) but isn't provided?

It happened for years on what became SWT/SWR routes eg West Byfleet to Waterloo. As l recall the comment, as long as some services offered first class, was essentially "tough".

 

[Sun Chariot]

It happened for years on what became SWT/SWR routes eg West Byfleet to Waterloo. As l recall the comment, as long as some services offered first class, was essentially "tough".

The irony of the TOCs calling it a  service...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A general muse: Southern's service between Brighton and Southampton makes use of 377/1, /2 and /4, which all convey the advertised first class accommodation.
But... the 387 cascades mean we also see 387/1, /2 and /3 sets used on some of the paths. I see a flaw...
Attached RTT data shows three examples yesterday and today. Two of those do not have first class seating.

Do you know what happens where a service is advertised as conveying first class (and a.First Class.season ticket might have been purchased for using on that route) but isn't provided?

But the 387s do have First Class?

 

[Sun Chariot]

But the 387s do have First Class?

Do the /2 (Gatwick Express) and /3 (ex c2c)? There's no sign of first class stripe or markings that I can see on them.

 

[Wolfie]

Do the /2 (Gatwick Express) and /3 (ex c2c)? There's no sign of first class stripe or markings that I can see on them.

C2C doesn't have first class. Gatwick Express does.

 

[Sun Chariot]

C2C doesn't have first class. Gatwick Express does.

Thanks @Wolfie - and as I thought re 387/3 ex c2c (since the c2c 310s and 357s I saw years ago were standard class only too). So your reply to my post 420 still holds true.

 

[Sussex Ben]

Thanks @Wolfie - and as I thought re 387/3 ex c2c (since the c2c 310s and 357s I saw years ago were standard class only too). So your reply to my post 420 still holds true.

The ex-c2c units on Southern/GX do convey first class, however my observations are that while antimacassars have been added to relevant seats, there is no obvious identifier on the outside of the train.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The ex-c2c units on Southern/GX do convey first class, however my observations are that while antimacassars have been added to relevant seats, there is no obvious identifier on the outside of the train.

Ah that makes sense, many thanks. I presume 2+2 seating?

 

[Sussex Ben]

Ah that makes sense, many thanks. I presume 2+2 seating?

Yes, internally they're very similar to other 387s

 

[Bikeman78]

The ex-c2c units on Southern/GX do convey first class, however my observations are that while antimacassars have been added to relevant seats, there is no obvious identifier on the outside of the train.

I'd be interested to know how many people use the first class. It's a lot of extra cash for a piece of paper on the headrest. Do the 387/3 have any other signage inside?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

C2C doesn't have first class. Gatwick Express does.

Well yes, but they left c2c in 2023…. they spent a year at Great Northern which absolutely does, and who added the relevant antimacs. They’re lacking the appropriate external markings though.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Rather OT and apologies if already covered:
I've just seen a Southern 377 (/1 or /4) as it passed me near Farlington Hampshire. Each DMC's Southern logo had a red flash, vertically, instead of a light green roundel.
I can't find any gen on that - Southern's own website banner shows the green roundel. Do any of you know?

 

[CR165022]

Could be 377101? I believe it has poppies on the logos.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

Rather OT and apologies if already covered:
I've just seen a Southern 377 (/1 or /4) as it passed me near Farlington Hampshire. Each DMC's Southern logo had a red flash, vertically, instead of a light green roundel.
I can't find any gen on that - Southern's own website banner shows the green roundel. Do any of you know?

377101 is your answer for sure. Surprised they didn't remove the poppy logos during the aurora refresh. 377440 lost its pride logos during the aurora program.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Many thanks @CR165022 and @TrainLifeGB

 

[Dhansak]

377101 is your answer for sure. Surprised they didn't remove the poppy logos during the aurora refresh. 377440 lost its pride logos during the aurora program.

Ha! I didn't even realise 440 carried pride logos. I thought only 101 and 111 were deviations from the norm (as well as 472/475 in the dim and distant past).

 

[TrainLifeGB]

Ha! I didn't even realise 440 carried pride logos. I thought only 101 and 111 were deviations from the norm (as well as 472/475 in the dim and distant past).

Yep, it sadly lost them during the aurora program. I think sometime throughout, 2023? Not sure of the exact date.

 

[Farnborough]

It happened for years on what became SWT/SWR routes eg West Byfleet to Waterloo. As l recall the comment, as long as some services offered first class, was essentially "tough".

To be fair, SWT/SWR offer seats, but you feel like you've won the lottery if you get one.

 

[Class455]

387304 had been at Stewarts Lane over the weekend, however I believe it may have returned to Hornsey on this ECS, so may not have moved just yet...

Realtime Trains | 5E90 2123 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 13/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 5E90 2123 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 13/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Southern Dvr]

387304 had been at Stewarts Lane over the weekend, however I believe it may have returned to Hornsey on this ECS, so may not have moved just yet...

Realtime Trains | 5E90 2123 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 13/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 5E90 2123 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 13/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That one keeps flirting with Southern. Was at Selhurst a few weeks back.

 

[Class455]

That one keeps flirting with Southern. Was at Selhurst a few weeks back.

It probably gets cold feet every time it leaves the GN!

 

[Farnborough]

That one keeps flirting with Southern. Was at Selhurst a few weeks back.

You want me to go *shudders* SOUTH of the River?

 

[Wolfie]

You want me to go *shudders* SOUTH of the River?

The subject matter of your post and your posting name raise a rather entertaining disconnect....

 

[Minstral25]

Noted 377 131 and 132 are paired up running together at London Bridge this morning. Checked RTT to make sure.

Is it a coincidence or is that getting them ready to send to SouthEastern?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Noted 377 131 and 132 are paired up running together at London Bridge this morning. Checked RTT to make sure.

Is it a coincidence or is that getting them ready to send to SouthEastern?

They're currently in ordinary passenger service, so I think it's a coincidence.

I'm seeing a far higher volume of consecutive pairs everywhere these days than I would expect by chance, so I do wonder if people in control rooms across the country like to unofficially try to play around to do it on purpose?

Maybe I should start a thread on this.........


Edited to add: Done: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/consecutive-pairs-of-units.294833/

 

[Sun Chariot]

West Coastway sees former GWR green 387173 today, on the circuit between Southhampton and Brighton. It passed me at my local station, just now:

Realtime Trains | 1N17 0920 Southampton Central to Brighton | 21/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1N17 0920 departure from Southampton Central to Brighton on 21/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Class455]

387116 is currently at Selhurst. Is this now transferring to Southern or is it just there for some work before returning to Hornsey?

 

[stadler]

387116 is currently at Selhurst. Is this now transferring to Southern or is it just there for some work before returning to Hornsey?

Yes unit 387116 is permanently transferring. Units 114 to 129 plus 172 to 174 plus 301 to 306 are the units transferring to SN. Units 101 to 113 are staying at GN. So this leaves just two units 387114 and 387115 that we are still waiting to transfer. The transfers will be complete once the last two go.

 

[physics34]

One of the 3 series 387s yesterday glowingly clean compared to most of the rest. Hope they are all going through it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2026 ==

One of the 3 series 387s yesterday glowingly clean compared to most of the rest. Hope they are all going through it.

Seems to be 387301. Gleeming!

 

[The_Train]

Yes unit 387116 is permanently transferring. Units 114 to 129 plus 172 to 174 plus 301 to 306 are the units transferring to SN. Units 101 to 113 are staying at GN. So this leaves just two units 387114 and 387115 that we are still waiting to transfer. The transfers will be complete once the last two go.

So all of the planned units (114 to 129, 172 to 174 & 301 to 306) have now moved over to Southern except for 114 and 115?