GTR Class 377/387 cascade updates 2026

[Sutton in Ant]

Who's said and confirmed this?

Well. I wrote to Southern Railway a while back, and they have confirmed that they will be getting 25 387s. The numbers are 387114-387129 387 301-306, 387 172-174. The 387s 101-113 are staying with GN railway.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

Well. I wrote to Southern Railway a while back, and they have confirmed that they will be getting 25 387s. The numbers are 387114-387129 387 301-306, 387 172-174. The 387s 101-113 are staying with GN railway.

Interesting. 172-174 will be odd with Southern in their GWR attire.

I wonder if 387201-227 will remain to be used on SN services.

 

[Southern Dvr]

172-174 came to Southern a few months back and didn’t like it down here so were returned to GN.

 

[Failed Unit]

172-174 came to Southern a few months back and didn’t like it down here so were returned to GN.

Anyone know what upset them?

 

[Bikeman78]

Interesting. 172-174 will be odd with Southern in their GWR attire.

I wonder if 387201-227 will remain to be used on SN services.

The Victoria to Brighton half hourly service only requires 10 units so there will be at least 10 red units elsewhere. They are all used as a common fleet. I'd imagine that all the 387s will be painted into the same livery as the 377s at their next overhaul.

 

[PGAT]

The Victoria to Brighton half hourly service only requires 10 units so there will be at least 10 red units elsewhere. They are all used as a common fleet. I'd imagine that all the 387s will be painted into the same livery as the 377s at their next overhaul.

Their last overhaul was the Aurora upgrade which concluded recently. And for the future GBR looms over us so I’m not sure we will see a repaint

 

[Bikeman78]

Their last overhaul was the Aurora upgrade which concluded recently. And for the future GBR looms over us so I’m not sure we will see a repaint

Did that overhaul include a repaint or vinyl? Under GBR, a uniform liver seems more likely, though perhaps many years into the future. It seems pointless having a large number of units in Gatex livery, especially as there is no attempt to keep them on the express. I've seen plenty of white units on Gatex services and pairs of red units on Eastbourne servies.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

172-174 came to Southern a few months back and didn’t like it down here so were returned to GN.

What I know is that 172-174 is going to have software work done by Alstom, allowing it to return to SN by December 2025.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

The Victoria to Brighton half hourly service only requires 10 units so there will be at least 10 red units elsewhere. They are all used as a common fleet. I'd imagine that all the 387s will be painted into the same livery as the 377s at their next overhaul.

Interesting. That leaves 17 387/2s for Southern.

But if it only requires 10 units, why do we always see a /1 or /3 on a GX service? Is this expected to stop once the rest of the 387s come over?

 

[TrainLifeGB]

What I know is that 172-174 is going to have software work done by Alstom, allowing it to return to SN by December 2025.

Ah, lovely. I love the SN 387s. Just so much more variety and so much nicer of an upgrade over the 313s and 455s. 377s have been strained to death trying to cover all the diagrams while not being shortformed!

 

[Bikeman78]

Is this expected to stop once the rest of the 387s come over?

I doubt it. Unless they have a dedicated pool of units like Heathrow Express.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

Ah, lovely. I love the SN 387s. Just so much more variety and so much nicer of an upgrade over the 313s and 455s. 377s have been strained to death trying to cover all the diagrams while not being shortformed!

I do still probably prefer the class 377s, simply because they have more comfortable seats rather than ironing boards, but it is still nice to have more variety than only class 377s. Even when we had Class 313s, that was in itself variety, and even the class 313s were relatively well maintained given they were 35 years old when they came to southern, so they could have been much worse at their job, even if 47 years was obviously enough.

To be fair, I suspect this cascade should be good enough to last until the class 377s need to start going, probably during the 2030s-2040s, unless they could maybe do a new build for southern, and cascade the 377 fleet somewhere further north to replace something even older.

I suspect if Great British Railways come up with a new standard and nationwide livery, I suspect that will be one of the next changes with Southern's fleet.

 

[JonathanH]

To be fair, I suspect this cascade should be good enough to last until the class 377s need to start going, probably during the 2030s-2040s, unless they could maybe do a new build for southern, and cascade the 377 fleet somewhere further north to replace something even older.

If 313s are good for 47 years service, then hopefully the oldest 377s will be too.

 

[PGAT]

If 313s are good for 47 years service, then hopefully the oldest 377s will be too.

Indeed the mid-life refurbishment has recently concluded ~23 years after they were built and they’ve aged incredibly well so far I see no reason they won’t make it to the 2050s

 

[Wolfie]

Indeed the mid-life refurbishment has recently concluded ~23 years after they were built and they’ve aged incredibly well so far I see no reason they won’t make it to the 2050s

Yet some folk on here say Bombardier/Alstom products are rubbish.

To be fair if they are talking Alstom built products from the late 90s/early 00s other than Pendolino they are probably right, lol...

 

[Doomotron]

Yet some folk on here say Bombardier/Alstom products are rubbish.

The Electrostars and Turbostars have generally been seen as good trains, but the endless issues with the Aventras ruined their reputation. I firmly believe the Electrostars will last longer than the Aventras will (in total age, that is).

 

[Wolfie]

The Electrostars and Turbostars have generally been seen as good trains, but the endless issues with the Aventras ruined their reputation. I firmly believe the Electrostars will last longer than the Aventras will (in total age, that is).

I know that the Adventras had way too many teething problems but thought that most classes had settled down and were performing well. Is that not the case?

 

[Doomotron]

I know that the Adventras had way too many teething problems but thought that most classes had settled down and were performing well. Is that not the case?

The 701s are the never-ending nightmare. A decent design paired with constant issues that have delayed their introduction for years. They're by far the worst of the Aventras and among the worst trains ever built for Britain. The other Aventras are less bad, but I haven't seen much positivity about them either. Often you'll see 'plastic crap' spouted by people who can't stand any trains built after privatisation, but it's obviously stupid because most of them are great. I will concede though that they might have a point with Aventras...

Anyway, back to the GTR cascades.

 

[Mikey C]

The 345s and 710s in London are fine. The 720s might have a debatable 3+2 seating layout, but as trains are fine also.

 

[Wolfie]

The 345s and 710s in London are fine. The 720s might have a debatable 3+2 seating layout, but as trains are fine also.

I've used all of them regularly and agree. I'd wondered if there was something behind the scenes that l was unaware of.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2025 ==

The 701s are the never-ending nightmare. A decent design paired with constant issues that have delayed their introduction for years. They're by far the worst of the Aventras and among the worst trains ever built for Britain.

The interesting question there is how many of the problems are down to Bombardier's design and how many to SWR's demands and the internal company politics.

 

[BerkshireRails]

They might be able to get 30 more 387s which Southern could get depending on what happens with the DfT future contracts for GWR. Key Quote

"Replacement of all existing DMUs (and possibly EMUs), excluding the IET fleet, with Battery Electric Multiple Units (BEMUs) and/or diesel multi-mode units. Potential for this procurement to include units for other non-GWR routes."

 

[TrainLifeGB]

387172 is now at Selhurst. Got dragged from Hornsey 2 days ago and arrived at 23:56 at Selhurst. It's receiving the Aurora project supposedly. We'll see if it doesn't go back to Great Northern yet again.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Deleted

 

[TrainLifeGB]

Follow on from post 391:

Today's the first time I'm aware of a former c2c 387/3 pathed along the West Coastway
387305 on 1N26 11:13 Brighton to Southampton Central. I'll try for a photo when it passes my locality in an hour.

Realtime Trains | 1N26 1113 Brighton to Southampton Central | 23/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 1N26 1113 departure from Brighton to Southampton Central on 23/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Been like that since like... March? Maybe.

387301-302 and 305-306 are all with Southern. We just await 387303 and 387304 now.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Been like that since like... March? Maybe.

387301-302 and 305-306 are all with Southern. We just await 387303 and 387304 now.

Yes, I realised one of my March 2025 photos is of 387306 near Havant and I have seen numerous of the "1Nxx" West Coastway services here with 387/3s. For some reason my aged brain had thought they weren't 387/3s.
Hence I deleted the wording in my post.

 

[The_Train]

Been like that since like... March? Maybe.

387301-302 and 305-306 are all with Southern. We just await 387303 and 387304 now.

Do we know roughly when 306 moved over?

 

[Sun Chariot]

I photo'd 306 end-March / very early April (it was during the two weeks of balmy spring sun on Hampshire's coast)

 

[The_Train]

I photo'd 306 end-March / very early April (it was during the two weeks of balmy spring sun on Hampshire's coast)

Thank you

 

[Southern Dvr]

Been like that since like... March? Maybe. 387301-302 and 305-306 are all with Southern. We just await 387303 and 387304 now.

387304 arrived Selhurst Depot Saturday night.

And then went back to Hornsey today!

 

[Sun Chariot]

A general muse: Southern's service between Brighton and Southampton makes use of 377/1, /2 and /4, all of which convey the advertised first class accommodation.
But... the 387 cascades mean we also see 387/1, /2 and /3 sets used on some of these paths. I see a flaw...
Attached RTT data with three examples yesterday and today. Two of those do not have first class seating.

Do you know what happens where a service is advertised as conveying first class (a.First Class.season ticket might have been purchased for using on that route) but isn't provided?