Help at a station for a child whose phone is broken

[styles]

On the SILK arrangement front, I have to wonder, how often is this actually used and would the majority of staff be well versed enough to make it happen?

It seems like the kind of process which would fall apart when one member of staff has never heard of it let alone used it, and that's from the point of view of a customer who experiences the rail industry regularly gets things like delay repay, refunds, compensation entitlement, split ticket sales, passenger assist etc wrong - things you'd expect to be happening practically all day every day.

Also presumably if the passenger is on a platform at a minor station, the train isn't going to hang around and get delayed for 20 minutes or more while they coordinate this - the train has a schedule to keep to. If they're at a major station with ticket staff the guard can probably keep things moving by saying go to the ticket office and ask about SILK, and it can be coordinated for the stranded passengers to board a later service.

It sounds messy and I'd bet many staff have never even heard of it if I'm honest.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Getting slightly off-topic now but I did note that the Pendolinos have got quite good swappable TUF-R USB charging modules. They're probably the way to go, particularly because USB A ports are not the most resilient over a long lifetime of public use.

It also means they're future proofed because Avanti can swap in high power USB C modules with minimal effort, capable of powering laptops and rapidly charging phones (but still retaining USB A for older devices).

These should be the standard in waiting rooms and outside gatelines, in my view.

I much prefer USB C. I hope it turns out to be more robust is a public place. Not all devices can charge from USB C power source even with the right cable. I think USB A will be around for a while.

My two/ three year old Belkin power bank I bought from Tesco mobile requires USB C to A cable. The A end going in the charger and the C end going in power bank.

 

[yorkie]

Maybe people relying on their phones should take personal responsibility for ensuring their phone is charged. And yes that includes 14 year olds.

I always carry a phone charger, and usually a power bank... many venues have charging points, or at least a mains socket.

I was going to challenge the above post, however I see others have responded with the points I would have made:

Regardless of whether a child has taken personal responsibility or not for their circumstances they're still a child and even as a stranger you have a moral duty of care towards them. An organisation which serves them will have a legal duty on top of that as well.

I agree; my guess and hope is that those who can't see this point have presumably not had to complete any sort of course or training on the subject of safeguarding.

Furthermore...

I think this thread has gotten wildly derailed now, with even the OP mentioning that it wasn't a phone charge issue, just a phone issue...

... Again, I agree.

If any new information comes to light and/or if @Nicholas43 receives a response from the train company, then by all means post that, but otherwise I think we are probably done here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2025 ==

On the SILK arrangement front, I have to wonder, how often is this actually used and would the majority of staff be well versed enough to make it happen?

It seems like the kind of process which would fall apart when one member of staff has never heard of it let alone used it, and that's from the point of view of a customer who experiences the rail industry regularly gets things like delay repay, refunds, compensation entitlement, split ticket sales, passenger assist etc wrong - things you'd expect to be happening practically all day every day.

Also presumably if the passenger is on a platform at a minor station, the train isn't going to hang around and get delayed for 20 minutes or more while they coordinate this - the train has a schedule to keep to. If they're at a major station with ticket staff the guard can probably keep things moving by saying go to the ticket office and ask about SILK, and it can be coordinated for the stranded passengers to board a later service.

It sounds messy and I'd bet many staff have never even heard of it if I'm honest.

While rail staff should be familiar with relevant procedures and policies, it wasn't necessary in this case. It could have been resolved simply by allowing a phone call to be made. A stranger got the train company off the hook.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2025 ==

On the SILK arrangement front, I have to wonder, how often is this actually used and would the majority of staff be well versed enough to make it happen?

It seems like the kind of process which would fall apart when one member of staff has never heard of it let alone used it, and that's from the point of view of a customer who experiences the rail industry regularly gets things like delay repay, refunds, compensation entitlement, split ticket sales, passenger assist etc wrong - things you'd expect to be happening practically all day every day.

Also presumably if the passenger is on a platform at a minor station, the train isn't going to hang around and get delayed for 20 minutes or more while they coordinate this - the train has a schedule to keep to. If they're at a major station with ticket staff the guard can probably keep things moving by saying go to the ticket office and ask about SILK, and it can be coordinated for the stranded passengers to board a later service.

It sounds messy and I'd bet many staff have never even heard of it if I'm honest.

While rail staff should be familiar with relevant procedures and policies, it wasn't necessary in this case. It could have been resolved simply by allowing a phone call to be made. A stranger got the train company off the hook.

 

[Nicholas43]

...
What age is the child? It may be worth contacting the train company (GWR?) asking what their policy is.
...

16.

I think this thread has gotten wildly derailed now, with even the OP mentioning that it wasn't a phone charge issue, just a phone issue. I wonder if any mod is brave enough to attempt to untangle it

Yes please!
My grandson asked to be allowed through the entry barriers despite not being able to display a ticket, and was, rightly, refused. It was a very busy barrier, and I'm not blaming staff for not immediately taking him aside to sort him out. I didn't ask him for details, because, once I had arrived on my rescue mission, I was more interested in hearing about the (many) good parts of his day. But, as I understood it, a kind bystander offered to let him use his/her phone to phone his mum. Fortunately, she answered a call from an unknown number (which, I think, some parents might not?)
My tentative conclusion is that it would be good if train companies had a practice of offering a ticketless minor a company phone in order to call a relative, and explained the option of the relative buying on-line a ticket to be collected almost immediately from a ticket machine.

If any new information comes to light and/or if @Nicholas43 receives a response from the train company, then by all means post that, but otherwise I think we are probably done here.

Yes.

 

[styles]

Or ask a friendly passenger or in a pinch find a payphone and reverse the charges. It does emphasise the importance of committing an ICE (In Case of Emergency) number to memory. I still remember the number of my childhood home, having committed it to memory as a Cub Scout.

Our scout group/explorers unit happens to be near a payphone, so we have naturally shown them how to reverse call charges, but I'll be honest, the number of payphones on the UK is fast diminishing.

It can't be relied upon as a means of safeguarding.

Not sure what station OP's lad was at but it could well have been a non-starter.

You also need the child to have memorised the phone number they need, which is probably an 11 digit mobile number not a 5 or 6 digit local number for a landline. There's plenty of people who simply don't. My partner doesn't even know her own mobile number, though I appreciate that's a bit of a special case!

 

[LowLevel]

16.

Yes please!
My grandson asked to be allowed through the entry barriers despite not being able to display a ticket, and was, rightly, refused. It was a very busy barrier, and I'm not blaming staff for not immediately taking him aside to sort him out. I didn't ask him for details, because, once I had arrived on my rescue mission, I was more interested in hearing about the (many) good parts of his day. But, as I understood it, a kind bystander offered to let him use his/her phone to phone his mum. Fortunately, she answered a call from an unknown number (which, I think, some parents might not?)
My tentative conclusion is that it would be good if train companies had a practice of offering a ticketless minor a company phone in order to call a relative, and explained the option of the relative buying on-line a ticket to be collected almost immediately from a ticket machine.

I suspect they generally will though it depends who has a phone - obviously all train guards will and so will someone at the station but probably not everyone.

It's always been clear to us that the work phone can be used by the public if it seems to be necessary or appropriate and that's in paperwork I've seen going back over 20 years to the company mobile phones in HST buffet cars!

Safeguarding minors is an interesting one and you have to be careful with it. Individuals are rarely a problem but on one of our routes it has reached the attention of the local 12/13 year old scrotes that if they turn up in numbers and refuse to pay no one will dare challenge them for fear of falling foul of the safeguarding policy and they make life a misery for other passengers and staff, become aggressive and abusive, jumping on and off trains etc.

 

[Haywain]

On the SILK arrangement front, I have to wonder, how often is this actually used and would the majority of staff be well versed enough to make it happen?

I think it is used very rarely these days. Even 20 years ago at a major London station it was far less then a daily occurrence, and staff knowledge of the process is inevitably aided by experience of using it. It’s also reliant on being able to phone the other station and that can be very difficult and time consuming. To be honest, I see the process as an anachronism in the modern world that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

 

[SephenWorceste]

“12/13 year old scrotes”

You mean vulnerable children?

We have to consider them as vulnerable children. When this has not been done, then sometimes authorities do not act to protect them.

 

[LowLevel]

“12/13 year old scrotes”

You mean vulnerable children?

We have to consider them as vulnerable children. When this has not been done, then sometimes authorities do not act to protect them.

It is very hard to objectively consider them to be vulnerable children when they're physically beating your colleagues and trying to break the train windows. One delightful 15 year old was arrested a year or two back for ripping a female conductor's hair out for challenging them over ticketless travel. Another group held a train up for half an hour threatening the crew and trying and failing to smash the windows. I've had them attempting to climb on to the roof before now.

Safeguarding them in the form of detaining them and demonstrating that their behaviour is unacceptable I'm all for. Unfortunately getting someone out in a timely fashion to do that before they run away is the challenge.

It is very easy to take the moral high ground on what should be done when you're not effectively a lone worker who knows any help in the event of things escalating is some time away.

 

[BayPaul]

It annoys me that the railway industry can't work out a way of using an email address as a ticket in a situation like this. For example, have a 'lost ticket' button on a ticket machine. This takes you to a menu page with a list of authorised retailers (tocs, trainline, trainsplit etc), where you click the one you bought the ticket from, enter your registered email address and password, and then have the option to reprint the ticket, with some appropriate back end programming to cancel the original ticket, and perhaps a service fee.

That would remove all the regular complaints on this issue, and be good customer service.

 

[NotATrainspott]

It is very hard to objectively consider them to be vulnerable children when they're physically beating your colleagues and trying to break the train windows. One delightful 15 year old was arrested a year or two back for ripping a female conductor's hair out for challenging them over ticketless travel. Another group held a train up for half an hour threatening the crew and trying and failing to smash the windows. I've had them attempting to climb on to the roof before now.

Safeguarding them in the form of detaining them and demonstrating that their behaviour is unacceptable I'm all for. Unfortunately getting someone out in a timely fashion to do that before they run away is the challenge.

It is very easy to take the moral high ground on what should be done when you're not effectively a lone worker who knows any help in the event of things escalating is some time away.

This is the problem, unfortunately. Children learn or work out that adults won't allow "bad things" to happen to them, and some children take advantage so that they can do whatever they want. Of course, once they turn 18, that falls away and they then have to learn that "bad things" can indeed happen to them.

Charging phones is relatively simple. If someone really has got a ticket on a phone with a dead battery, then the offer of a quick charge so that the ticket inspector can see it shouldn't cause them any distress. If you're just chancing your luck then you don't win at all.

With a totally dead phone, it's not quite so easy. What's to stop 14 year olds carrying around a permanently broken phone and claiming their ticket is on it? If it means being able to get around for free, with no negative consequences, then why not? They don't care about the loss of revenue to the railway.

Pretty much any process you can come up with faces this problem. If your solution is to take a name and phone number of a parent, then you'll only ever get the names and phone numbers of real parents who actually care. Any children just trying to travel for free will provide fake details, because why not? It's not like the ticket inspector can do anything about it.

 

[KNN]

It annoys me that the railway industry can't work out a way of using an email address as a ticket in a situation like this. For example, have a 'lost ticket' button on a ticket machine. This takes you to a menu page with a list of authorised retailers (tocs, trainline, trainsplit etc), where you click the one you bought the ticket from, enter your registered email address and password, and then have the option to reprint the ticket, with some appropriate back end programming to cancel the original ticket, and perhaps a service fee.

That would remove all the regular complaints on this issue, and be good customer service.

It probably could, but it's a policy decision. If a ticket is not present that could mean
several things, including it being genuinely lost.

Unfortunately there are too many people who would abuse such a system and buy one ticket, give the original to their mate, then reprint it.

 

[sheff1]

A point of order, though, orange ccst aren't "much more reliable", the bit of this which wasn't reliable was your grandson and his phone, not the e ticket.

And paper tickets come with a different set of problems, if he'd lost his ticket and tried to travel with an email confirmation or seat reservation he'd also have been refused

Losing a paper ticket is the fault of holder. A phone completely dying is not.

Bit of a ramble but,
A) Why on earth can’t we do something like this in the UK, and
B) providing/maintaining USB sockets should be as easy as providing lighting and air-con! Are we living in the 1990s still, in the Uk? This sort of thing isn’t hard.

The ‘why should we’ attitude displayed on here seems pretty common.

Payment cards aren’t required to collect a ToD these days (except for LNER)

Earlier this week I needed a card to collect a ticket booked via GWR from an EMR machine.

 

[dcsprior]

16.

Ok, so we're talking about someone who is effectively an adult.*

This means I wouldn't see this as a safeguarding issue but as a customer service one. And the railway presumably claims to care about offering good customer service, so should be making reasonable efforts to help their customer. I'm pretty sure if I found that I had locked my keys and phone inside my car in a supermarket car park, the supermarket would help me call my wife to come with the spare keys.

* I say "effectively an adult" because someone who is 16 but not yet 18 is legally treated as an adult in some ways, but a child in other ways. But at 16 they're old enough to leave home, to work full time, to vote in most elections, to join the armed forces, to get married, etc, etc - so I'd say they're effectively an adult

 

[aar0]

* I say "effectively an adult" because someone who is 16 but not yet 18 is legally treated as an adult in some ways, but a child in other ways. But at 16 they're old enough to leave home, to work full time, to vote in most elections, to join the armed forces, to get married, etc, etc - so I'd say they're effectively an adult

Not for a few years - 18+ now. And they must be in full time education to 18 - yes apprenticeships count but not full time work in the way it was 40 years ago on leaving school at 16!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

* I say "effectively an adult" because someone who is 16 but not yet 18 is legally treated as an adult in some ways, but a child in other ways. But at 16 they're old enough to leave home, to work full time, to vote in most elections, to join the armed forces, to get married, etc, etc - so I'd say they're effectively an adult

And they'll have an adult ticket! It literally says adult on the ticket they (do/don't) have

 

[dcsprior]

Not for a few years - 18+ now. And they must be in full time education to 18 - yes apprenticeships count but not full time work in the way it was 40 years ago on leaving school at 16!

Apologies, 'cos the minimum age for marriage and leaving education didn't change in Scotland (still 16 for both here) I was unaware of the changes.

 

[Qwerty133]

This is the problem, unfortunately. Children learn or work out that adults won't allow "bad things" to happen to them, and some children take advantage so that they can do whatever they want. Of course, once they turn 18, that falls away and they then have to learn that "bad things" can indeed happen to them.

Charging phones is relatively simple. If someone really has got a ticket on a phone with a dead battery, then the offer of a quick charge so that the ticket inspector can see it shouldn't cause them any distress. If you're just chancing your luck then you don't win at all.

With a totally dead phone, it's not quite so easy. What's to stop 14 year olds carrying around a permanently broken phone and claiming their ticket is on it? If it means being able to get around for free, with no negative consequences, then why not? They don't care about the loss of revenue to the railway.

Pretty much any process you can come up with faces this problem. If your solution is to take a name and phone number of a parent, then you'll only ever get the names and phone numbers of real parents who actually care. Any children just trying to travel for free will provide fake details, because why not? It's not like the ticket inspector can do anything about it.

The solution to stopping children from taking advantage is to offer support without allowing free travel. If a lone child is genuinely unable to present their ticket due to a broken phone a phone call to the parents (which the TOC should be able to make at essentially no cost) should be able to resolve the situation. Unfortunately in cases where the child is unwilling for the parents to be contacted or is too young to be able to recall a contact number it may well be that the appropriate response is to contact the BTP in any case as this would be suggestive of a bigger issue* that is well beyond what a member of front line railway staff can be expected to get involved with.
*whether country lines, abusive or neglectful parents, a runaway child etc

 

[Skiddaw]

Perhaps the way of looking at it is to imagine what you'd want to happen/feel was appropriate if it was your child. And most 16 year olds are still children emotionally IME.

 

[Nicholas43]

... If a lone child is genuinely unable to present their ticket due to a broken phone a phone call to the parents (which the TOC should be able to make at essentially no cost) should be able to resolve the situation....

... which, ahem, is what I asked about in post #1. It does rely on the child knowing (or having written down) the phone number(s). Which my grandson did.

 

[dcsprior]

... which, ahem, is what I asked about in post #1. It does rely on the child knowing (or having written down) the phone number(s). Which my grandson did.

Or the parents having a landline, in which case the number will be obtainable from directory enquiries (which I think is available online for free these days). Of course, these days that's not a certainty either!

 

[KNN]

Losing a paper ticket is the fault of holder. A phone completely dying is not.

I disagree. When was the last time you had a mobile phone which stopped working for no reason at all? I've almost always owned second hand phones and it hasn't happened to me in 25 years.

If you get it wet or lose it or drop it or it runs out of battery, it isn't an act of God, just as losing a paper ticket wouldn't be.

 

[contrex]

Why should the station?

Should a supermarket have cables for people if battery goes and they need to scan loyalty card?

Why don't people take some personal responsibility?
You can buy a decent battery pack/charger for £10

A phone with a ticket that entitles one to travel, the absence of which removes that entitlement, needs to be kept running. Don't all phones display the percentage charge remaining, so that you could shut it down at (say) 20% remaining, and turn it on again near the station? That's what I did until I got a power bank in Lidl for £9.99. And while I'm on the topic, why do people say phones 'die' when they mean the battery's too low to keep it running? When I 'die', I'm pretty damned that sure connecting me to electricity will not get me going again, aside from de-fibrillation. I suppose saying 'my phone's in a deep coma' is too complicated.

 

[Nicholas43]

... And while I'm on the topic, why do people say phones 'die' when they mean the battery's too low to keep it running? When I 'die', I'm pretty damned that sure connecting me to electricity will not get me going again, aside from de-fibrillation. I suppose saying 'my phone's in a deep coma' is too complicated.

I wrote, in post #1, that my grandson's phone had 'died', because I observed that it was presenting a blank screen, with an ailment which neither of us could diagnose, or cure by the customary long presses of the sticky-out bits in various combinations. My grandson assured me that its battery had NOT been low. (It's not really on topic, but I am happy to report that a repair shop has been able to bring the phone back to life.)
If there are further posts, please could they stick to the topic: what assistance can railway staff reasonably be expected to provide to a ticketless minor whose phone isn't working?

 

[yorkie]

Personally I would try and assist a passenger who needed help where I reasonably can. Should I be obliged to lend them my own chargers (risking them getting wrecked or stolen)? What about lending them my own phone to make a call? Have the operator provided suitable equipment to their gateline staff for this purpose?

A gateline assistant can't legitimately strand a vulnerable passenger on the basis that they don't have suitable equipment to put the matter right, if that's what you are arguing.

Clearly you have some very different views to me on this matter, so I am not sure of the value of continuing the discussion further; you aren't going to budge in appearing to support or condone the behaviour of the staff, while I am absolutely not going to accept that it was an acceptable outcome.

However if you aren't careful, you could find yourself in bother if you act in a similar manner to the behaviour you appear to be condoning.

I would put the likely cause of this impasse down to inadequate and insufficient training and/or policies on the part of certain employers.

If you, or anyone else on the railway, isn't going to heed the posts by @AlterEgo above (who absolutely does have relevant experience in the rail industry) then I can only point to this as further evidence that the industry has insufficient safeguards in place in multiple areas.

If anyone is any doubt that the rail industry has major failings in the area of customer service, and carrying out appropriate procedures, and that the best staff are absolutely fantastic, while the worst are an absolute disgrace to the industry (and even to humanity), then check this thread out:

Dorchester South to Wick

I have logged in again to tell my tale of woe. The worst railway journey I have ever experienced. The Good - Caledonian Sleeper, ScotRail, Southern, Thameslink The Bad - South Western Railway The Ugly: Avanti West Coast 21 JULY 2025 SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY Due to what was described as “Code...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[a_c_skinner]

They should, but good luck getting this enforced.

What safeguarding training do staff get? Railways are incredibly risk averse in some areas but in this department?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2025 ==

I wrote, in post #1, that my grandson's phone had 'died', because I observed that it was presenting a blank screen, with an ailment which neither of us could diagnose, or cure by the customary long presses of the sticky-out bits in various combinations. My grandson assured me that its battery had NOT been low. It's not really on topic, but I am happy to report that a repair shop has been able to bring the phone back to life.
If there are further posts, please could they stick to the topic: what assistance can railway staff reasonably be expected to provide to a ticketless minor whose phone isn't working?

For a child (<18 E&W, <16 Scotland) they should spare no effort. Truley. They should take any reasonable steps to ensure the child is returned to parents, those with parental responsibility etc. safely and with minimum upset.

 

[Segedunum]

As someone who was a regular rail user and enthusiast in my teenage years - I was fortunate enough to only really come unstuck once.

I was on the last day of a North East Rover when I ended up losing my ticket (well, the plastic wallet containing it). I was 16 - not exactly daft, but also a fair distance from home (Knottingley, when I lived in Newcastle). I was then subjected to an interesting selection of staff attitudes.

- Northern social media, who said I should wait at Knottingley for two hours and see if I could locate the ticket on the train I last had it on (the Leeds-Goole of all these things)

-Guard on the following service who told me to do the same and not to board his train or I'd get an Unpaid Fares Notice

-Guard on a separate Knottingley to Leeds who offered to give me a ride to Leeds as that was a far safer place to await the unit while it returned from Goole

-Guard on the ex-Goole service who told me to jump on and start looking and she'd keep the unit locked so I wasn't mobbed by passengers in the process. When that didn't bear fruit, she wrote her payroll number and a "please allow travel" note on a blank ticket and sent me on my way.

I don't believe that any of the staff who were telling me to wait were going out of their way to be mean or unreasonable (and as you can tell, I did have access to a phone with data, as well as just enough cash to buy a ticket home) but I do look back and think that telling a child to wait in an unfamiliar town on their own for a rather lengthy period of time of an evening wasn't great. The guard who gave me a lift to Leeds was certainly being sensible in my view - the guard who got me home for nothing - I am forever in her debt - 10 years on!

 

[Nicholas43]

- the guard who got me home for nothing is of course forever in my debt - 10 years on!

"How far that little candle throws its beam!
So shines a good deed in a naughty world."

 

[Russel]

At my station I just wipe down the glass with wipes if I notice a trend of slow/failed reads for Aztec codes. I'll bring up an old e-ticket to scan as well to double check as sometimes the readers will fail without any reported fault.

A good, customer focused attitude there, I like it!

 

[Qwerty133]

A gateline assistant can't legitimately strand a vulnerable passenger on the basis that they don't have suitable equipment to put the matter right, if that's what you are arguing.

Given the suitable equipment in this case would be as simple as a phone able to make outbound calls which would also be essential in the event of emergency it is highly questionable why any TOC employee wouldn't have access to such equipment or at least have direct radio contact with someone else on the station who does.