Help at a station for a child whose phone is broken

[Nicholas43]

(edited to clarify that phone was charged: apologies for sowing some confusion)
My grandson was, correctly I am sure, refused boarding at a station near me, because his phone not working (but was charged) and he could not display his ticket. Thanks to the kindness of a stranger, he was able to phone his mum, who alerted me to go to the station and buy him a (so much more reliable ) orange ticket.
Would staff be allowed / encouraged to phone mum, explain predicament, and ask mum to buy a ticket on-line, to be collected from ticket machine at station? (Which, I think, now takes only moments to be collectable, and does not require a bank card?)

 

[greatkingrat]

I guess it depends how old the grandson is. I would expect staff to be more sympathetic to a potentially vulnerable child, than an adult who they may think is just trying it on.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes I think that's the main thing. A 14 year old is going to get a lot more sympathy and help than a 24 year old.

 

[vuzzeho]

While I know it's the ticket holder's responsibility to be able to produce a valid ticket, phones die. Maybe stations should have USB-C and Lightning cables available for use when phones are low?

 

[800001]

While I know it's the ticket holder's responsibility to be able to produce a valid ticket, phones die. Maybe stations should have USB-C and Lightning cables available for use when phones are low?

Why should the station?

Should a supermarket have cables for people if battery goes and they need to scan loyalty card?

Why don't people take some personal responsibility?
You can buy a decent battery pack/charger for £10

 

[saismee]

While I know it's the ticket holder's responsibility to be able to produce a valid ticket, phones die. Maybe stations should have USB-C and Lightning cables available for use when phones are low?

Outside the gates they'll get shredded or nicked. Inside the gates and now people will say "can I just go in and charge my phone, I have a ticket I swear!" and then walk right onto the platform without a care in the world.

 

[Nicholas43]

While I know it's the ticket holder's responsibility to be able to produce a valid ticket, phones die. Maybe stations should have USB-C and Lightning cables available for use when phones are low?

Indeed. But, for clarity, grandson's phone was showing a black screen of death, and battery was not low.

 

[Adam Williams]

Why should the station?

Because the rail industry benefits financially from E-Tickets in numerous ways, and it's a very simple thing to do that can improve the passenger experience.

Should a supermarket have cables for people if battery goes and they need to scan loyalty card?

I'd be more likely to shop at a supermarket with additional amenities. Isn't that the whole reason Waitrose provides its customers with free coffee? Up until quite recently Tesco also charged my car for free while I shopped.

---

I know it's popular in the rail industry to argue against improvements to the passenger experience, particularly if "it's always been the way it has" - but rail is competing against various other travel modes which don't have the same complete disregard for the paying customer which is so often expressed here.

 

[PathFinderUK]

My grandson was, correctly I am sure, refused boarding at a station near me, because his phone had died and he could not display his ticket. Thanks to the kindness of a stranger, he was able to phone his mum, who alerted me to go to the station and buy him a (so much more reliable ) orange ticket.
Would staff be allowed / encouraged to phone mum, explain predicament, and ask mum to buy a ticket on-line, to be collected from ticket machine at station? (Which, I think, now takes only moments to be collectable, and does not require a bank card?)

Most new phones have reverse charging. Allowing phones to charge via another phone if you can find someone. Ideally go to a staff member.
Some stations have charging ports in seats but always carry a power bank when travelling.
Passengers can go to reception if they need to use a telephone.
There's lots of options. Obviously if it's for a specific ticket and they're running late, they might miss the train but otherwise there should be no difficulty getting help.

 

[Adam Williams]

Outside the gates they'll get shredded or nicked

You can use the risk of vandalism as an excuse to not provide any nice things in a society.

My XC Voyager had a window broken by a vandal on Thursday. Should we just remove windows on all rolling stock?

Or is it more appropriate to cover the area with CCTV, and actually fund a police force that bothers to (and has the time to) investigate low-value but nonetheless disruptive crime?

 

[KNN]

It's a difficult balance to get between being sympathetic and upholding the rules. Most major stations have charging facilities nowadays, and there are usually staff or other passengers who will help.

A point of order, though, orange ccst aren't "much more reliable", the bit of this which wasn't reliable was your grandson and his phone, not the e ticket.

And paper tickets come with a different set of problems, if he'd lost his ticket and tried to travel with an email confirmation or seat reservation he'd also have been refused.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Fully agree re providing USB sockets, although on trains would be better than in the station due to the vandalism risk. (I realise this would then not solve your youngster’s problem.)

I’m on holiday on a well known Spanish island at the moment. The comprehensive, frequent and 7d/wk bus services are cheap to use, air conditioned, provide multilingual onboard CIS and full tap on/off fares functionality for a range of travel cards and bank cards, including the ‘big 3’ of Visa, Maestro, Mastercard. Multi-hop journeys and group discounts are applied automatically, even for those using a foreign bank account like us. The buses also have USB sockets at every seat and audible prompts about the next stops, timetable schedule and tips on how to use the tap on/off properly. Better still the entire system is cross-modal, so includes trains, trams and metro as well.

Bit of a ramble but,
A) Why on earth can’t we do something like this in the UK, and
B) providing/maintaining USB sockets should be as easy as providing lighting and air-con! Are we living in the 1990s still, in the Uk? This sort of thing isn’t hard.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There are usb sockets (but not wires) in quite a few station's waiting rooms, Bolton and Wigan North Western (P5/P6) come to mind immediately, I imagine more do too

 

[Alex C.]

There are usb sockets (but not wires) in quite a few station's waiting rooms, Bolton and Wigan North Western (P5/P6) come to mind immediately, I imagine more do too

Probably of the older USB-A standard.

Increasingly the standard USB-A sockets are challenging for anyone with a reasonably modern phone which will charge over USB-C - hopefully the newer style ports will last a lot longer!

 

[Nicholas43]

Could I just repeat that the problem with my grandson's phone was not that it needed charging? I was just wondering whether staff can / should facilitate a parent buying a ticket on-line, to be collected, more or less instantly, from a ticket machine.

 

[jon0844]

I think a lot of staff would offer a charge if they had a power bank or power sockets at the gateline, especially for someone who hasn't travelled yet. But not all staff will have either (many gateline SCUs have no ports for charging, nor any sockets to plug in a charger).

I think staff should be able to see quite quickly how genuine someone is in the situation where the phone battery has suddenly died just before trying to exit a station. Offer to charge and see the reaction. If someone is genuinely relieved and appreciative, it's likely true. If someone starts making excuses that their phone won't charge with your cable, or the charging port is broken and can't be charged etc then it's time to PF or take details as appropriate.

While the small cheap power banks are pretty low in capacity and slow charge, I'd still recommend everyone carry something - even if it's just 5W and only 2,000-5,000mAh. Don't rely on USB ports being available anywhere, or working. For most people, your phone is your life. Chances are you want to have your phone working for more than just showing a ticket too!

[edit; just seen the extra post above, but I'll keep it as it applies to the majority of cases where a phone doesn't work]

 

[Hadders]

Could I just repeat that the problem with my grandson's phone was not that it needed charging? I was just wondering whether staff can / should facilitate a parent buying a ticket on-line, to be collected, more or less instantly, from a ticket machine.

Yes, a procedure exists for this.

 

[Adam Williams]

Is the SILK arrangement still a thing?

I'd have thought that 99% of these cases would be more effectively resolved via Ticket on Departure with a retailer known not to use "same-card collection", and the new TVM flow which doesn't require the card upfront.

That should indeed be inserted effectively immediately, ready for collection.

 

[Nicholas43]

Yes, a procedure exists for this.

Thank you!

 

[alistairlees]

Could I just repeat that the problem with my grandson's phone was not that it needed charging? I was just wondering whether staff can / should facilitate a parent buying a ticket on-line, to be collected, more or less instantly, from a ticket machine.

An industry process for exactly this has existed for many years (at least 30 or 40?). It's called SILK. It is for stranded customers without sufficient funds to arrange (via a ticket office) for another person (such as a parent or relative) to purchase tickets remotely, for them to be handed to the stranded person.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, a procedure exists for this.

SILK arrangement is where someone buys a ticket from another station, with a £10 fee added on, and the ticket is 'issued' as a TOD code that can be collected at the station where the person is 'stranded'. Staff should give that code to the station where the person who needs to travel is located.

If the stranded passenger has a railcard, the ticket purchased can be discounted as appropriate.

 

[alistairlees]

I see Adam beat me to it. It looks like SILK is mostly replaced by ToD now, though the effect is the same - another person buys tickets remotely. SILK predated widespread ToD, so did not originaslly involve it as I recall.

 

[Hadders]

In reality, I wonder how many members of staff would know about SILK?

I suspect in reality it would be easier for the parent to buy a ticket, select ToD, and the child collect it at the ticket machine. Payment cards aren’t required to collect a ToD these days (except for LNER)

 

[PeterC]

Probably of the older USB-A standard.

Increasingly the standard USB-A sockets are challenging for anyone with a reasonably modern phone which will charge over USB-C - hopefully the newer style ports will last a lot longer!

All the 3 pin to USB plugs in my house are USB-A. I have never had a problem charging my phone or a visitor's. I have never found plugging the correct end of the lead into the socket at all "challenging".

 

[Adam Williams]

providing/maintaining USB sockets should be as easy as providing lighting and air-con

Getting slightly off-topic now but I did note that the Pendolinos have got quite good swappable TUF-R USB charging modules. They're probably the way to go, particularly because USB A ports are not the most resilient over a long lifetime of public use.

It also means they're future proofed because Avanti can swap in high power USB C modules with minimal effort, capable of powering laptops and rapidly charging phones (but still retaining USB A for older devices).

These should be the standard in waiting rooms and outside gatelines, in my view.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Could I just repeat that the problem with my grandson's phone was not that it needed charging? I was just wondering whether staff can / should facilitate a parent buying a ticket on-line, to be collected, more or less instantly, from a ticket machine.

Pretty much the same arrangements as with someone who loses their (apparently so much more reliable) paper ticket.
The situation can be more stressful when technology goes wrong rather than loss being down to personal oversight. But the results are very similar - the ticket has been lost and another is required. It should be easy enough to obtain help from a passer-by or member of staff on request.

 

[Sakuradori]

In reality, I wonder how many members of staff would know about SILK?

I believe it's still in the procedure manual for ticket office staff, but outside of that probably not a great proportion. I didn't know about it until I took a passenger in a similar situation to the ticket office.

Payment cards aren’t required to collect a ToD these days (except for LNER)

As an aside, ticket offices don't require the payment card, if anyone does get stuck at an LNER-run station.

 

[saismee]

In reality, I wonder how many members of staff would know about SILK?

New member of gateline, never heard of it or been told about it... and my role is probably the most important to know!

 

[a_c_skinner]

All children, up to their 18th birthday (E&W, 16th Scotland) are by definition vulnerable and all staff should take all reasonable steps to safeguard them. Employers should demand this of employees.

 

[robbeech]

Why should the station?

Should a supermarket have cables for people if battery goes and they need to scan loyalty card?

It's just a sensible thing to do, it doesn't need to be advertised as a service, but just being able to say "don't worry we can sort that" is a good customer services. Of course, a moot point in this scenario as it wasn't a battery issue. As for whether supermarkets should help? It doesn't hurt does it?

I suspect in reality it would be easier for the parent to buy a ticket, select ToD, and the child collect it at the ticket machine. Payment cards aren’t required to collect a ToD these days (except for LNER)

Without wishing to stray too far off topic, is it really just LNER that is behind on this now? Quite poor isn't it.

New member of gateline, never heard of it or been told about it... and my role is probably the most important to know!

Sadly we see lots of cases of staff not being told the rules, sometimes this can have significant negative effects on passengers' journeys. Thankfully some staff do still have a keen interest in things so are more likely to go out of their way to learn things.