Help at a station for a child whose phone is broken

[Nicholas43]

Have I now got this right:
Method 1: find a railway person who knows about Stranded Individual Location Known. This may be difficult in practice, and is expensive.
Method 2: find a friendly railway person who will allow child to phone relative. Child asks relative to buy a ticket on-line and let child know the booking reference. Child collects ticket from ticket machine.
Method 3: at LNER station, pray that the booking office is open.

 

[norbitonflyer]

An industry process for exactly this has existed for many years (at least 30 or 40?). It's called SILK. It is for stranded customers without sufficient funds to arrange (via a ticket office) for another person (such as a parent or relative) to purchase tickets remotely, for them to be handed to the stranded person.

More than 40 years. I was woken at 5am on the morning of my sister's wedding in 1981 because my cousin. who had just come off the ferry at Holyhead, and did not have enough money on her to buy a ticket. She had greatly underrestimated how wide Great Britain is at that latitude.
Down to the my local station - wait for it to open - pay for her ticket. She gets paged at the station and picks up the ticket, and several hours later she arrived just in tiem for the ceremony.

 

[AlterEgo]

Have I now got this right:
Method 1: find a railway person who knows about Stranded Individual Location Known. This may be difficult in practice, and is expensive.
Method 2: find a friendly railway person who will allow child to phone relative. Child asks relative to buy a ticket on-line and let child know the booking reference. Child collects ticket from ticket machine.
Method 3: at LNER station, pray that the booking office is open.

I assume the relative's number is memorised or written down somewhere?

 

[jon0844]

In reality, I wonder how many members of staff would know about SILK?

I suspect in reality it would be easier for the parent to buy a ticket, select ToD, and the child collect it at the ticket machine. Payment cards aren’t required to collect a ToD these days (except for LNER)

Not everyone might know that you don't need to present a card these days for most tickets.

It's obviously cheaper to do this than go to a ticket office where you pay £10 - although doing it that way does mean that in the event of there being a problem, the ticket office can tell staff at the other station and another form of authority to travel could be issued.

 

[DelW]

Not everyone might know that you don't need to present a card these days for most tickets.

I'm one of those ones, I thought that TVMs more or less always needed a bank card to be scanned during TOD collection, and that some retailers insisted that it had to be the same card used to pay for the ticket. When was that changed, and how widespread is the change, does it apply to all retailers? Thanks for any clarification!

 

[trainswitheddy]

Why should the station?

Should a supermarket have cables for people if battery goes and they need to scan loyalty card?

Why don't people take some personal responsibility?
You can buy a decent battery pack/charger for £10

Methinks there's a slight difference between a discount/points card and safely getting home

 

[AlterEgo]

Why should the station?

Should a supermarket have cables for people if battery goes and they need to scan loyalty card?

Why don't people take some personal responsibility?
You can buy a decent battery pack/charger for £10

Because the railway has a duty of care to stranded children. As indeed do we all to some extent.

 

[Falcon1200]

In reality, I wonder how many members of staff would know about SILK?

The SILK arrangement certainly existed when I was a Booking Clerk (1978-84), and we in the office all knew about it. What I can't recall is how, or whether, BR advertised its existence, so how would stranded passengers know about it unless by presenting themselves at the Booking Office, or whether non-Clerks were aware of it.

 

[voyagerdude220]

As an aside, ticket offices don't require the payment card, if anyone does get stuck at an LNER-run station.

Fujitsu Star Machines certainly request the card to be inserted into the chip and pin machine or scanned for contactless verification, although admittedly I usually override it seeing that TVMs no longer demand the card.

(Not sure if anyone has ever been told off for doing so in this scenario)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

Why should the station?

Well said. It really annoys me when people at work complain to me that the ticket barrier staff won't let them leave (after they've arrived on a train) because they supposedly have a ticket on their dead phone.. (although I suppose a lack of action being taken against them doesn't help.)

You can often tell who is genuine by their reaction to me or another colleague offering to give their phone a quick charge for them..

 

[och aye]

My XC Voyager had a window broken by a vandal on Thursday. Should we just remove windows on all rolling stock?

Don't give ROSCOs any ideas!

 

[800001]

Because the railway has a duty of care to stranded children. As indeed do we all to some extent.

How many stranded children are there each day?

In 9 years of working for a TOC on station, tickets office, and control, not aware of a single stranded child at any of the stations we operated.

Had many people obtain tickets via the SILK procedure though, which was known about by all people I spoke to about it.

If people (of any age) are going out for a period of time, plan! Take a phone charger, take a battery pack, get a paper ticket instead of a eticket.

Over the years self responsibility seems to be disappearing, and that is from all ages.

They miss a train through there own fault, the railway must fix the problem for them.

There battery dies, the railway must sort it.

I've lost my paper ticket, the railway must give me a new one.

I could go on.

Yes, there will be genuine cases of stranded people, and yes, the railway family will assist, but come on, people need to take ownership of their own actions.

 

[yorkie]

Methinks there's a slight difference between a discount/points card and safely getting home

Quite! The post was making what is known as a false equivalence fallacy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

How many stranded children are there each day?

In 9 years of working for a TOC on station, tickets office, and control, not aware of a single stranded child at any of the stations we operated.

Had many people obtain tickets via the SILK procedure though, which was known about by all people I spoke to about it.

If people (of any age) are going out for a period of time, plan! Take a phone charger, take a battery pack, get a paper ticket instead of a eticket.

Over the years self responsibility seems to be disappearing, and that is from all ages.

They miss a train through there own fault, the railway must fix the problem for them.

There battery dies, the railway must sort it.

I've lost my paper ticket, the railway must give me a new one.

I could go on.

Yes, there will be genuine cases of stranded people, and yes, the railway family will assist, but come on, people need to take ownership of their own actions.

This attitude would get you disqualified from some jobs I've done; you simply wouldn't get through job if this was your view on the subject of safeguarding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2025 ==

All children, up to their 18th birthday (E&W, 16th Scotland) are by definition vulnerable and all staff should take all reasonable steps to safeguard them. Employers should demand this of employees.

They should, but good luck getting this enforced. There are insufficient safeguards in place at many train companies in this area.

Would staff be allowed / encouraged to phone mum, explain predicament, and ask mum to buy a ticket on-line, to be collected from ticket machine at station? (Which, I think, now takes only moments to be collectable, and does not require a bank card?)

What age is the child? It may be worth contacting the train company (GWR?) asking what their policy is.

I don't agree that an orange ticket is more reliable. If it's lost, that's it, game over, no back up is possible. An e-ticket could optionally be shown on an alternative device and/or be printed out.

 

[Krokodil]

Method 2: find a friendly railway person who will allow child to phone relative. Child asks relative to buy a ticket on-line and let child know the booking reference. Child collects ticket from ticket machine.

Or ask a friendly passenger or in a pinch find a payphone and reverse the charges. It does emphasise the importance of committing an ICE (In Case of Emergency) number to memory. I still remember the number of my childhood home, having committed it to memory as a Cub Scout.

Because the railway has a duty of care to stranded children. As indeed do we all to some extent.

It was presumably a staffed station. If they're waiting at a staffed station (even if outside the gateline but still in the station) then they're not being put in danger.

 

[yorkie]

Or ask a friendly passenger or in a pinch find a payphone and reverse the charges. It does emphasise the importance of committing an ICE (In Case of Emergency) number to memory. I still remember the number of my childhood home, having committed it to memory as a Cub Scout.


It was presumably a staffed station. If they're waiting at a staffed station (even if outside the gateline but still in the station) then they're not being put in danger.

They can be left indefinitely waiting, with no assistance from staff, just because staff are present at the station?

 

[Krokodil]

They can be left indefinitely waiting, with no assistance from staff, just because staff are present at the station?

Presumably the individual will be attempting to contact their parents and if not staff should text it into BTP as a potential MISPER.

 

[yorkie]

Presumably the individual will be attempting to contact their parents and if not staff should text it into BTP as a potential MISPER.

How can they contact their parents if their phone doesn't work?

How is the person missing if they simply need to take a train home? (can you also please expand on acronyms/abbreviations)

 

[185143]

Or ask a friendly passenger or in a pinch find a payphone and reverse the charges. It does emphasise the importance of committing an ICE (In Case of Emergency) number to memory. I still remember the number of my childhood home, having committed it to memory as a Cub Scout.


It was presumably a staffed station. If they're waiting at a staffed station (even if outside the gateline but still in the station) then they're not being put in danger.

Funny you should say that.

I'm an adult but still living with my parents. I've known my one of my parent's mobile numbers by memory since being a young teenager, but cannot for the life of my remember the other one. I also knew my landline by memory until we got rid of it.

Not once had I ever had to use it until early last year when I'd managed to arrive into the country with my phone still in Ireland.

I would recommend anyone of any age to remember a phone number that will get them out of the smelly brown stuff if needed. Even as an adult, you just never know when something might happen, and you also don't realise just how much of your life is on your phone. Stena Line happily just took my surname and let me on the ferry. Obviously Ryanair wouldn't have done so.

 

[Krokodil]

How can they contact their parents if their phone doesn't work?

Any of the methods listed above.

Allowing a minor to continue to travel just on their assurance that they're going home to their parents is not safeguarding them. They might be running away from home or being exploited by County Lines gangs. If an appropriate adult cannot be contacted then the police should be involved to check upon their welfare. And I have come across this in real life, I have involved BTP (British Transport Police) when I had a kid hiding in a toilet and something felt off. Turned out that they'd been reported missing that morning.

 

[Peter0124]

Ultimately its the pax responsibility to have charged phones, however things happen. Therefore I don't agree with those who penalty fare people if their phone is dead / not working, without giving an opportunity for them to charge it for even just a minute.

There are ways to prove someone had already bought it prior, eg purchase timestamp.

 

[yorkie]

Any of the methods listed above.

Allowing a minor to continue to travel just on their assurance that they're going home to their parents is not safeguarding them. They might be running away from home or being exploited by County Lines gangs. If an appropriate adult cannot be contacted then the police should be involved to check upon their welfare. And I have come across this in real life, I have involved BTP (British Transport Police) when I had a kid hiding in a toilet and something felt off. Turned out that they'd been reported missing that morning.

So when you said "or..." in post #43 above, you weren't trying to suggest that rail staff shouldn't be helping? If so, I'm really not sure why you replied to that post.

The impression I get from the opening post is that staff did not offer to do this, and instead left it to strangers to do this, which is clearly wrong. This appeared to be challenged by the OP and you then replied in a manner that could be interpreted as suggesting that it was acceptable for staff to leave it to strangers to do this.

If that isn't what you intended, then apologies for the misunderstanding, but if you are in agreement with me that staff should be assisting, you really could have made it a lot clearer.

 

[Krokodil]

So when you said "or..." in post #43 above, you weren't trying to suggest that rail staff shouldn't be helping? If so, I'm really not sure why you replied to that post.

The impression I get from the opening post is that staff did not offer to do this, and instead left it to strangers to do this, which is clearly wrong. This appeared to be challenged by the OP and you then replied in a manner that could be interpreted as suggesting that it was acceptable for staff to leave it to strangers to do this.

If that isn't what you intended, then apologies for the misunderstanding, but if you are in agreement with me that staff should be assisting, you really could have made it a lot clearer.

Personally I would try and assist a passenger who needed help where I reasonably can. Should I be obliged to lend them my own chargers (risking them getting wrecked or stolen)? What about lending them my own phone to make a call? Have the operator provided suitable equipment to their gateline staff for this purpose?

 

[AlterEgo]

It was presumably a staffed station. If they're waiting at a staffed station (even if outside the gateline but still in the station) then they're not being put in danger.

Yes but as you note this cannot be an indefinite period. You can't have a child on the concourse at Marylebone forever. Once you get confronted with a stranded child you have a problem.

Appropriate duty of care would be to allow them to make a phone call if it is reasonable, and allow them to make proper arrangements to get home. If for any reason you're concerned or unable to help (eg: county lines - doesn't seem to be mum or dad they are calling, has lots of cash on them, travelling without possessions ect), call it in to the police.

 

[Russel]

My grandson was, correctly I am sure, refused boarding at a station near me, because his phone had died and he could not display his ticket. Thanks to the kindness of a stranger, he was able to phone his mum, who alerted me to go to the station and buy him a (so much more reliable ) orange ticket.

I really don't understand this view, whenever I hear it.

I've been using e-tickets almost exclusively for about 5 years and I've never had an issue with the tickets, or mobile devices.

I do have issues at Birmingham New Street though, with scanning tickets, but this is because the glass on the readers is filthy on almost every ticket gate, something I've raised with station staff numerous time who never really know what to say and look at me as if I've just stole their last doughnut.

Increasingly the standard USB-A sockets are challenging for anyone with a reasonably modern phone which will charge over USB-C - hopefully the newer style ports will last a lot longer!

Public USB-A sockets have never been reliable, the port is just too fragile for heavy duty use, I gave up trying to use them years ago and just use a 3 pin plug by default.

 

[saismee]

I do have issues at Birmingham New Street though, with scanning tickets, but this is because the glass on the readers is filthy on almost every ticket gate, something I've raised with station staff numerous time who never really know what to say and look at me as if I've just stole their last doughnut.


Public USB-A sockets have never been reliable, the port is just too fragile for heavy duty use, I gave up trying to use them years ago and just use a 3 pin plug by default.

At my station I just wipe down the glass with wipes if I notice a trend of slow/failed reads for Aztec codes. I'll bring up an old e-ticket to scan as well to double check as sometimes the readers will fail without any reported fault.

The USB ports on many of the trains I use are terrible and I don't trust them at all. The ones that do work barely charge faster than the battery drains from light use, so 3-pin is the best choice.

 

[talldave]

Because the railway has a duty of care to stranded children. As indeed do we all to some extent.

Agreed. I'm nothing to do with the railway, but if saw a stranded child, I'd buy them a ticket. As a parent you do for others' children as you'd appreciate being done for yours.

 

[Farnborough]

Maybe stations should have USB-C and Lightning cables available for use when phones are low?

Maybe people relying on their phones should take personal responsibility for ensuring their phone is charged. And yes that includes 14 year olds.

I always carry a phone charger, and usually a power bank... many venues have charging points, or at least a mains socket.

 

[talldave]

The USB ports on many of the trains I use are terrible and I don't trust them at all. The ones that do work barely charge faster than the battery drains from light use, so 3-pin is the best choice.

It's a depressing result of things being an afterthought rather than being designed in. Buses started acquiring USB-A outlets just as the world moved to USC-C. In an ideal world the transport industry would be tracking the mobile industry's developments and planning for the next version of PD and QC specifications, in advance.

 

[saismee]

I think this thread has gotten wildly derailed now, with even the OP mentioning that it wasn't a phone charge issue, just a phone issue. I wonder if any mod is brave enough to attempt to untangle it

 

[AlterEgo]

Maybe people relying on their phones should take personal responsibility for ensuring their phone is charged. And yes that includes 14 year olds.

I always carry a phone charger, and usually a power bank... many venues have charging points, or at least a mains socket.

Regardless of whether a child has taken personal responsibility or not for their circumstances they're still a child and even as a stranger you have a moral duty of care towards them. An organisation which serves them will have a legal duty on top of that as well.

 

[SephenWorceste]

As said some of this is about vulnerability. Age, disability, time of day, gender, last train, connecting train weather, darkness, remoteness, distance to travel, local area could all be a factor. All could be quite difficult to judge. It would be sensible to just help people out if they need it. If at the end of the railway day when the staff want to go home, and there is a person at the station still unable to go anywhere then it is going to be a lot more hassle. Police or social service may have to be involved. Certainly more work for the railway staff. Doing all you can reasonably to keep people moving through the railway network helps everybody. One phone call to a parent or quick charge could save a lot of work later.

I know the railways are not a public service as such but they do receive large amounts of public money. I think if people are on the premises the public would expect some small amount of care.

The railway companies wants to encourage mobile ticketing. Presumably this has some benefits for them. It might a good idea to help people out occasionally in these situations. it might encourage adoption.

If somebody is on a train when their phone battery runs flat is that potentially grounds for a by-law prosecution? Does that ever happen with the possible bad publicity?