2023 Israel - Hamas / Hezbollah war

[brad465]

RTÉ: Ireland threatens to withdraw from Eurovision if Israel participates

The Irish broadcaster said that Ireland's participation in the contest "would be unconscionable given the ongoing and appalling loss of lives in Gaza".

www.bbc.co.uk

Good on Ireland; I just wish we had a backbone in this country.

And more may follow suit:

Now got the Dutch following suit:

Netherlands ready to join Eurovision boycott over Israel

The Netherlands follows Ireland in saying it can "no longer justify Israel's inclusion" in the event.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Dutch public broadcaster, Avrotros, has confirmed the Netherlands will also boycott next year's Eurovision song contest if Israel is involved.
It follows Irish broadcaster RTÉ, which has said it will not take part if Israel does "given the ongoing and appalling loss of lives in Gaza".
Eurovision will take place next in May 2026 in Vienna after Austrian singer JJ won this year following a nail-biting finish that saw him topple Israel from pole position at the very last minute.
In a statement, external which echoed RTÉ's, Avrotros said it too could no longer justify Israel's inclusion "given the ongoing and severe human suffering in Gaza" and the "serious erosion of press freedom".
It continued: "Human suffering, the suppression of press freedom and political interference are at odds with the values of public broadcasting."
The Dutch broadcaster went on to cite the Israeli ban on international media from entering war-torn Gaza, as well as the "many casualties among journalists".
On Friday, Irish musician and songwriter Phil Coulter called on the UK to withdraw from Eurovision 2026 if Israel participates.
The BBC - the UK's Eurovision broadcaster - has so far declined to comment.
Mr Coulter said he was "100% behind RTÉ" in their decision to withdraw from the contest, and that people in the UK and Ireland are both "disgusted by what's going on in Gaza".
Coulter has written or co-written several songs for Eurovision, including the UK's 1967 winning song, Puppet on a String, which singer Jade Thirlwall sampled last year.
RTÉ said it will make a final decision once the Eurovision organiser, the European Broadcasting Union (EBU), has done so.
Earlier this year, more than 70 former Eurovision contestants signed a letter calling on the organisers to ban Israel from the 2025 competition.

 

[yorkie]

Great to see so many nations do the right thing, even if we won't. There will be no choice but to boot them out. We need the same to happen with football and all other sports.

 

[GusB]

Great to see so many nations do the right thing, even if we won't. There will be no choice but to boot them out. We need the same to happen with football and all other sports.

There will be some people who will complain that sport etc. shouldn't be politicised.

My view is that if a country wishes to participate in international events, it should adhere to international law.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There will be some people who will complain that sport etc. shouldn't be politicised.

The EBU politicised it when they kicked Russia and Belarus out. Tolerating Israel is just hypocrisy.

Of course the sponsor of Eurovision is an Israeli company, which I’m sure is not influencing the EBU at all.

 

[brad465]

The EBU politicised it when they kicked Russia and Belarus out. Tolerating Israel is just hypocrisy.

Of course the sponsor of Eurovision is an Israeli company, which I’m sure is not influencing the EBU at all.

This is an example of very effective resource management. Despite being a very small country, having sponsors in the right places, buying out the right individuals and gaslighting a critical mass of the population into thinking opposing Israel's behaviour is the same as hating all Jews, has got the state a very long way.

Russia has actually done similar too: its economy is not very large, especially compared to its population and geographical size but through propaganda, election interference and buying support of various politicians and grifters, has projected its image to make masses fear it. This still happens somewhat, despite Ukraine exposing the naked emperor in the Russian army.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2025 ==

Latest news, the UN is "anti-Semitic":

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says

The panel finds that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out against Palestinians during the war.

www.bbc.co.uk

A United Nations commission of inquiry says Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.
A new report says there are reasonable grounds to conclude that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out since the start of the war with Hamas in 2023: killing members of a group, causing them serious bodily and mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to destroy the group, and preventing births.
It cites statements by Israeli leaders, and the pattern of conduct by Israeli forces, as evidence of genocidal intent.
Israel's foreign ministry said it categorically rejected the report, denouncing it as "distorted and false".
It accused the three experts on the commission of serving as "Hamas proxies" and relying "entirely on Hamas falsehoods, laundered and repeated by others" that had "already been thoroughly debunked".
"In stark contrast to the lies in the report, Hamas is the party that attempted genocide in Israel - murdering 1,200 people, raping women, burning families alive, and openly declaring its goal of killing every Jew," the ministry added.
An Israeli military official dismissed the report as "baseless", saying: "No other country has operated in these conditions and done so much to prevent harm to civilians on the battlefield."

 

[Acfb]

This is an example of very effective resource management. Despite being a very small country, having sponsors in the right places, buying out the right individuals and gaslighting a critical mass of the population into thinking opposing Israel's behaviour is the same as hating all Jews, has got the state a very long way.

Russia has actually done similar too: its economy is not very large, especially compared to its population and geographical size but through propaganda, election interference and buying support of various politicians and grifters, has projected its image to make masses fear it. This still happens somewhat, despite Ukraine exposing the naked emperor in the Russian army.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2025 ==

Latest news, the UN is "anti-Semitic":

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says

The panel finds that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out against Palestinians during the war.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't really understand why certain people in Britain fervently support Israel/while the Israel lobby is so strong in Britain as Israel doesn't even seem like a proper 'Western' country as it was close to Russia before the Ukraine war. It's completely bizarre and I don't understand it geopolitically. It makes more sense why the US sees Israel as a 'proxy' in the Middle East though even though I don't agree with them doing that.

 

[DerekC]

I don't really understand why certain people in Britain fervently support Israel/while the Israel lobby is so strong in Britain as Israel doesn't even seem like a proper 'Western' country as it was close to Russia before the Ukraine war. It's completely bizarre and I don't understand it geopolitically. It makes more sense why the US sees Israel as a 'proxy' in the Middle East though even though I don't agree with them doing that.

I think that it's a continuing reaction to the way Jewish people were treated in WWII combined with the success of Israeli governments in managing to label anybody who objects to their policies as antisemitic. However the link is beginning to break down under the stress that Netanyahu is putting on it, and in that he is making a huge mistake. The long term hope is that realisation of the consequences this is going to have causes the moderate voices in Israel to be heard again, and for the stranglehold of the religious right to be broken.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I think that it's a continuing reaction to the way Jewish people were treated in WWII combined with the success of Israeli governments in managing to label anybody who objects to their policies as antisemitic. However the link is beginning to break down under the stress that Netanyahu is putting on it, and in that he is making a huge mistake. The long term hope is that realisation of the consequences this is going to have causes the moderate voices in Israel to be heard again, and for the stranglehold of the religious right to be broken.

And also, in some cases, just a good old dose of blatant Islamophobia. You're gay, they're Muslim and they'd throw you off a building, so why are you bothered if their innocent, defenceless children starve to death or get blown to pieces is a frighteningly common rhetoric that I've witnessed on social media.

 

[frankmoh]

I sadly have a feeling that the UK recognising Palestine won't do much in the long term.

 

[Russel]

I sadly have a feeling that the UK recognising Palestine won't do much in the long term.

No doubt about it.

It helps secure a few votes though.

 

[Yew]

It does raise some questions though, as presumably we now recognise the Sea off Gaza as Palestinian territorial waters. Which could have implication should the Israeli Navy try to intercept any British flagged vessels taking aid.

 

[PrincesWinsdor]

It does raise some questions though, as presumably we now recognise the Sea off Gaza as Palestinian territorial waters. Which could have implication should the Israeli Navy try to intercept any British flagged vessels taking aid.

I'm curious do most people in the UK confuse HAMAS to be
the same as Palestine, or do most know the difference between recognising The Palestinian National Authority and recognising HAMAS' legitimacy?

Also, do forum members here believe that the PA is an iserali puppet and that it is HAMAS who is fighting for Palestinians?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm curious do most people in the UK confuse HAMAS to be the same as Palestine, or do most know the difference between recognising The Palestinian National Authority and recognising HAMAS' legitimacy?

I reckon most Brits don't know enough about the situation to hold any particular views other than there's a mush of terms floating around in their head including Palestine, Gaza, The Palestinian Authority, Hamas, etc etc and the difference or relationship between them I suspect escapes most peoples grasp. Not that I particularly blame them (even though we're deeply involved historically in the present mess) as it's a complex situation which the media tends to do very little to provide any sort of context for.

Also, do forum members here believe that the PA is an iserali puppet and that it is HAMAS who is fighting for Palestinians?

I'm fairly content that the Palestinian Authority, as currently constituted, is your run of the mill corrupt civil government which is mostly concerned with how it can take care of it's own members first and the regular Palestinian's second. In that vein as long as you don't cross the regime it will broadly leave you alone. There was probably some hope back in the 90s when Oslo was ongoing that it could have transitioned into a proper government but I reckon those days are long gone. The bigger issue for the Palestinian Authority now is how it could ever possibly gain legitimacy in the eyes of the Palestinian people having spent so long being seen as and, to my knowledge being, corrupt.

As for Hamas? They fight for Hamas and Hamas alone. They dress themselves up in the flag of fighting for the Palestinian cause and, considering the barbarism on display from the Israeli Government, unsurprisingly many Palestinians flock to the banner. But Hamas care only for the average Palestinian as far as they can be used to further Hamas' own goals. I think simply looking at the vast defensive and offensive infrastructure that they built for themselves over the decades of their rule in Gaza which can only have been funded using misappropriated funds demonstrates that. Quite apart from starting a war on October 7 2023 that they clearly had no exit strategy from other than arranging for the inhabitants of Gaza to be martyred for the cause of Hamas when the inevitable Israeli government reprisals rolled in.

Throughout the 20th and 21st centuries the thread that runs through the history of the Palestinian people is that they have at basically every single turn been utterly failed by their own leadership. Obviously many outside factors as well, but good lord these people have never had any leadership that has ever seemingly given a damn about them. Going back at least as far as the Arab revolt in 1936 against British rule in Mandatory Palestine.

 

[PrincesWinsdor]

I reckon most Brits don't know enough about the situation to hold any particular views other than there's a mush of terms floating around in their head including Palestine, Gaza, The Palestinian Authority, Hamas, etc etc and the difference or relationship between them I suspect escapes most peoples grasp. Not that I particularly blame them (even though we're deeply involved historically in the present mess) as it's a complex situation which the media tends to do very little to provide any sort of context for.

I'm fairly content that the Palestinian Authority, as currently constituted, is your run of the mill corrupt civil government which is mostly concerned with how it can take care of it's own members first and the regular Palestinian's second. In that vein as long as you don't cross the regime it will broadly leave you alone. There was probably some hope back in the 90s when Oslo was ongoing that it could have transitioned into a proper government but I reckon those days are long gone. The bigger issue for the Palestinian Authority now is how it could ever possibly gain legitimacy in the eyes of the Palestinian people having spent so long being seen as and, to my knowledge being, corrupt.

As for Hamas? They fight for Hamas and Hamas alone. They dress themselves up in the flag of fighting for the Palestinian cause and, considering the barbarism on display from the Israeli Government, unsurprisingly many Palestinians flock to the banner. But Hamas care only for the average Palestinian as far as they can be used to further Hamas' own goals. I think simply looking at the vast defensive and offensive infrastructure that they built for themselves over the decades of their rule in Gaza which can only have been funded using misappropriated funds demonstrates that. Quite apart from starting a war on October 7 2023 that they clearly had no exit strategy from other than arranging for the inhabitants of Gaza to be martyred for the cause of Hamas when the inevitable Israeli government reprisals rolled in.

Throughout the 20th and 21st centuries the thread that runs through the history of the Palestinian people is that they have at basically every single turn been utterly failed by their own leadership. Obviously many outside factors as well, but good lord these people have never had any leadership that has ever seemingly given a damn about them. Going back at least as far as the Arab revolt in 1936 against British rule in Mandatory Palestine.

An interesting situation is that since 2006 HAMAS has controlled Gaza. And they actually won the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections and assumed administrative control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. In 2007, Hamas led a military victory over Fatah, the secular Palestinian nationalist party, which had dominated the Palestinian National Authority.
(According to Wikipedia)

So for over a decade, there were two powers in control of Palestine. How did administration and civil matters differed between HAMAS controlled Gaza and PA controlled West Bank?

 

[yorkie]

World Cup 2026: US State Department vows to block attempts to ban Israel from tournament

The United States government say it will try to block any attempts to ban Israel from competing at the 2026 World Cup.

www.bbc.co.uk

...A US State Department spokesperson told BBC Sport: "We will absolutely work to fully stop any effort to attempt to ban Israel's national soccer team from the World Cup."

Meanwhile, there have been reports that European football's governing body Uefa - which organises World Cup qualifying matches - could meet to decide whether to suspend Israel as early as next week...

No surprise that the far-right Trump regime in the US is supporting the far-right Netanyahu regime in Israel.

Trump and his cronies are well known for supporting their fellow far-right criminals.

I hope Israel is kicked out, and if not, I hope as many countries boycott as possible until Israel's position becomes untenable.

The far-right regime needs to be put under far more pressure than is currently being exerted; the West's tolerance of Israel's atrocities and war crimes is unbelievable and disgraceful.

 

[m0ffy]

If Israel is blocked from competing, at least the US flounce would provide good cover to avoid an embarrassing performance during the competition. I’m hoping they are barred from Eurovision as well.

 

[PrincesWinsdor]

World Cup 2026: US State Department vows to block attempts to ban Israel from tournament

The United States government say it will try to block any attempts to ban Israel from competing at the 2026 World Cup.

www.bbc.co.uk

No surprise that the far-right Trump regime in the US is supporting the far-right Netanyahu regime in Israel.

Trump and his cronies are well known for supporting their fellow far-right criminals.

I hope Israel is kicked out, and if not, I hope as many countries boycott as possible until Israel's position becomes untenable.

The far-right regime needs to be put under far more pressure than is currently being exerted; the West's tolerance of Israel's atrocities and war crimes is unbelievable and disgraceful.

I would argue that BOTH Hamas and Israel needs to be put under pressure. After all, it's Hamas and Palestinian militant groups who started the war on 7 October, 2023, not Israel.

The truth is neither side wants peace.

Throughout history, there were many attempts by the Arab nations to eliminate Israel both directly and indirectly. They supported Palestinian militant groups to launch attacks against Israel. Israel also attempted to invade Palestine and it's neighbours multiple times, ditching the two state solution that even Palestinians didn't wanted in the first place.

That being said, the general population don't know the difference between the PA and HAMAS. Many simply think Palestinians are terrorists, when most are just innocent civilians. Also, Israel launched attacks on six countries since 7 October 2023. 10 months ago they attacked Syria. With the new regime being friendly, Israel just gave up a great opportunity to make peace with Syria. And recently they bombed Doha? What Israel is doing can definitely be considered aggressive. Neither Syria nor Qatar attempted to invade Israel.

Therefore, it's quite clear that neither side wants peace in this Hamas-Israeli conflict, not
Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

 

[yorkie]

I would argue that BOTH Hamas and Israel needs to be put under pressure. After all, it's Hamas and Palestinian militant groups who started the war on 7 October, 2023, not Israel.

This is absolutely untrue; Israel has been illegally occupying Palestine and oppressing Palestinian people for many decades.

Have you actually read the thread? Other sympathisers of the far-right Israeli regime have made the same claims early in the thread, which were comprehensively debunked.

The truth is neither side wants peace.

While it is true that there are people on both "sides" who would never want peace, you have to consider the bigger picture; the idea that you can refer to "sides" as if there is any form of equality between them is absurd. There is a huge imbalance of power

Throughout history, there were many attempts by the Arab nations to eliminate Israel both directly and indirectly.

This seems an odd thing to say when Israel is committing mass genocide and ethnic cleansing. It seems like you are trying to detract from what is currently happening. I wonder why that is?

They supported Palestinian militant groups to launch attacks against Israel. Israel also attempted to invade Palestine and it's neighbours multiple times, ditching the two state solution that even Palestinians didn't wanted in the first place.

"attempted to invade Palestine" is perhaps the understatement of the century; I don't think you understand this conflict at all.

That being said, the general population don't know the difference between the PA and HAMAS. Many simply think Palestinians are terrorists, when most are just innocent civilians. Also, Israel launched attacks on six countries since 7 October 2023. 10 months ago they attacked Syria. With the new regime being friendly, Israel just gave up a great opportunity to make peace with Syria. And recently they bombed Doha? What Israel is doing can definitely be considered aggressive. Neither Syria nor Qatar attempted to invade Israel.

Again, a huge understatement to consider the atrocities committed by Israel as "can defiinitely be considered aggressive"

Therefore, it's quite clear that neither side wants peace in this Hamas-Israeli conflict, not
Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

The idea that this is a conflict merely between Hamas and Israel and that Israel is not committing atrocities against ordinary Palestinian people is absurd.

Also, if your land had been occupied for decades and was in the process of systematically being destroyed, I wonder if you might feel a little bit upset? (!)

 

[PrincesWinsdor]

This is absolutely untrue; Israel has been illegally occupying Palestine and oppressing Palestinian people for many decades.

Have you actually read the thread? Other sympathisers of the far-right Israeli regime have made the same claims early in the thread, which were comprehensively debunked.


While it is true that there are people on both "sides" who would never want peace, you have to consider the bigger picture; the idea that you can refer to "sides" as if there is any form of equality between them is absurd. There is a huge imbalance of power

This seems an odd thing to say when Israel is committing mass genocide and ethnic cleansing. It seems like you are trying to detract from what is currently happening. I wonder why that is?

"attempted to invade Palestine" is perhaps the understatement of the century; I don't think you understand this conflict at all.

Again, a huge understatement to consider the atrocities committed by Israel as "can defiinitely be considered aggressive"

The idea that this is a conflict merely between Hamas and Israel and that Israel is not committing atrocities against ordinary Palestinian people is absurd.

Also, if your land had been occupied for decades and was in the process of systematically being destroyed, I wonder if you might feel a little bit upset? (!)

I agree with your view that Israel oppressed Palestinian people. But do you support the two state solution?

 

[brad465]

The EBU are going to hold a member vote over whether Israel will be allowed to participate in Eurovision 2026. What's interesting is all 68 member countries are partaking, including several North African countries who don't actually participate in the singing:

Eurovision Song Contest: Organisers EBU to hold vote on Israel's participation

Israel's continued participation in the contest has been controversial due to the ongoing Gaza war.

www.bbc.co.uk

The organisation behind the Eurovision Song Contest has confirmed it will hold a vote on whether or not Israel should be allowed to participate next year.
The European Broadcasting Union (EBU) confirmed it will invite 68 member countries to give their view at a general assembly meeting in early November.
A decision will be taken by a simple majority, meaning that if more than 50% of members vote to exclude Israel, the country would not take part in 2026.
Israel's continued participation in Eurovision has been controversial due to the ongoing war in Gaza, and several countries had already called for their exclusion.
The EBU confirmed all 68 member countries would be invited to vote, including broadcasters who don't take part in Eurovision such as Tunisia, Egypt, Turkey, Algeria, Jordan and Lebanon.
Israel came second in the the most recent Eurovision Song Contest in May, with its act Yuval Raphael receiving the largest combined public vote.
However, the inclusion of jury votes led to Austria being declared the overall winner, and the next contest is scheduled to take place in Vienna.
In recent weeks, countries including Ireland, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Iceland and Spain have all said they would consider dropping out of Eurovision if Israel's involvement continued.
The Irish broadcaster, RTÉ, said that Ireland's participation in the event "would be unconscionable given the ongoing and appalling loss of lives in Gaza".
The Dutch public broadcaster, Avrotros, said it too could no longer justify Israel's inclusion "given the ongoing and severe human suffering in Gaza".
However, Israel's public broadcaster Kan said it should be allowed to take part, adding it was "one of the contest's longstanding, popular and successful participants".
"The potential disqualification of Israel's public broadcaster Kan would be especially troubling ahead of the 70th edition of the song contest, which was founded as a symbol of unity, solidarity and fellowship," a spokesman for the network said.
Austria's foreign minister also previously wrote to colleagues in six of the countries threatening a boycott, urging them to reconsider, saying that Eurovision and the arts in general are "not the appropriate arenas for sanctions".
"Excluding Israel from the Eurovision Song Contest or boycotting the event would neither ease the humanitarian crisis in Gaza nor contribute to finding a sustainable political solution," Beate Meinl-Reisinger said.
In the UK, Eurovision is broadcast by the BBC. Last week, the corporation's director-general Tim Davie said he was "aware of the concerns" around Israel taking part.
The Israeli military launched a campaign in Gaza in response to the Hamas-led attack on southern Israel on 7 October 2023, in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 others were taken hostage.
At least 65,419 people have been killed in Israeli attacks in Gaza since then, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Whilst the right wing and Israel/Netanyahu have weaponised Charlie’s Kirk death, this is what he actually thought about Israel which is something you won’t see on any mainstream media. He talks about Israel ethnically cleansing Gaza and hints at the October 7th attacks not being at what it seems. There is also a tweet just 1 month before his death allegedly from someone who knows him well that he is scared of Israel killing him if he turns on them.

(Transcript of some of the clip)

And the Israeli hard-right government has a mandate. I got to be careful the way I say this… to they're going to try to ethnically cleanse Gaza. I mean that that's and I don't use that term lightly. Okay? They're talking about basically removing 2.5 million people from there. Okay? And honestly, they have a mandate to go seek justice and revenge. They do. There is they this idea that they need to have a tr truce or a peace treaty that's morally crap after you see women and children be burned alive and dragged to the streets. But there are some serious questions here, Patrick. And let me tell you, my pattern recognition over the last 5 years has become pretty sharp. COVID, Maui fires, you know, Epstein. When I see a story and it doesn't click, we're our guts are usually right. So, I've been Israel many times. The whole country is a fortress. When I first heard this story, I still had the same gut instinct that I did initially. I find this very hard to believe. I've been to that Gaza border. You You cannot go 10 ft without running into a 19-year-old with an AR-15 or an automatic machine gun that is an IDF
soldier, right? The whole country is
surveilled. And so so let me let me just
kind of go through this. We don't talk
about Israeli politics very often and
most Americans don't know this. The last nine months, Israel is on the brink of civil war. It's not an exaggeration…

 

[Yew]

It doesn't seem to be talked about much in the UK news, but there is another "Freedom Floatilla", which this time seems to have attracted some escorts, a Spanish warship and Italian Naval Frigate.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/italy-sends-second-navy-ship-escort-gaza-aid-flotilla-2025-09-25/

Italy and Spain have deployed naval ships to assist an international aid flotilla that has come under drone attack while trying to deliver aid to Gaza, potentially ratcheting up tensions with Israel, which strongly opposes the initiative.
The Global Sumud Flotilla is using about 50 civilian boats to try to break Israel's naval blockade of Gaza. Many lawyers, parliamentarians and activists, including Swedish climate campaigner Greta Thunberg, are on board.

 

[nw1]

It did take us rather a long time to finally take action against South Africa.

Indeed, didn't good old Maggie consider Nelson Mandela a terrorist?

 

[alex397]

Indeed, didn't good old Maggie consider Nelson Mandela a terrorist?

She didn’t call him directly a terrorist, but said that the actions of the ANC were those of a terrorist organisation, as follows “when the ANC says that they will target British companies. This shows what a typical terrorist organisation it is”.

I believe it was at this point we were one of the few Commonwealth nations not to support sanctions on South Africa.

 

[GusB]

I would argue that BOTH Hamas and Israel needs to be put under pressure. After all, it's Hamas and Palestinian militant groups who started the war on 7 October, 2023, not Israel.

How many times does it need to be made clear that this war did not start on 7 October 2023.

It was just another chapter in a conflict that has been ongoing for decades. Saying that "Hamas started it" completely ignores the atrocities that have been committed against the Palestinian population before and after the establishment of the state of Israel.

The truth is neither side wants peace.

Is this actually true? Hamas has shown that it's willing to come to some kind of agreement and there was a brief cease-fire in place. It was Israel that breached that cease-fire, as it has also done in Lebanon many times after the so-called cease-fire with Hezbollah.

I'd agree that the hardliners on both sides don't want peace, but I think that the ordinary population of both Israel and Palestine would be quite happy for this whole situation to be over.

Throughout history, there were many attempts by the Arab nations to eliminate Israel both directly and indirectly. They supported Palestinian militant groups to launch attacks against Israel. Israel also attempted to invade Palestine and it's neighbours multiple times, ditching the two state solution that even Palestinians didn't wanted in the first place.

Well, quite. Neither side is completely blameless. Could you also provide some evidence to back up your claim that Palestinians don't want a two-state solution?

That being said, the general population don't know the difference between the PA and HAMAS.

What do you mean by "general population"?

Many simply think Palestinians are terrorists, when most are just innocent civilians.

This is racism at work. Brown + muslim = terrorist.

Also, Israel launched attacks on six countries since 7 October 2023. 10 months ago they attacked Syria. With the new regime being friendly, Israel just gave up a great opportunity to make peace with Syria. And recently they bombed Doha? What Israel is doing can definitely be considered aggressive. Neither Syria nor Qatar attempted to invade Israel.

Israel launched attacks on six countries since 7 October 2023 and then wonders why everyone else is out to get them!

The EBU are going to hold a member vote over whether Israel will be allowed to participate in Eurovision 2026. What's interesting is all 68 member countries are partaking, including several North African countries who don't actually participate in the singing:

Eurovision Song Contest: Organisers EBU to hold vote on Israel's participation

Israel's continued participation in the contest has been controversial due to the ongoing Gaza war.

www.bbc.co.uk

It'll be interesting to see how our own European Broadcast Union members vote, in particular the BBC. The other three are S4C, STV and ITV.

 

[brad465]

Time for another "you couldn't make it up" moment:

Tony Blair could help oversee Gaza transition under Trump plan

The former UK prime minister is the first named member of a new "Board of Peace" chaired by Donald Trump.

www.bbc.co.uk

US President Donald Trump has said Sir Tony Blair, the former UK prime minister, wants to join the international body overseeing Gaza under an American plan to end the war.

Sir Tony became the first named member of a new "Board of Peace" chaired by Trump, to be tasked with temporarily supervising Gaza's governance if Israel and Hamas accept the plan. "Leaders from other countries" on the board will be named later, Trump said.

The board is part of a 20-point plan aimed at ending the nearly two-year conflict between Israel and Hamas - including a process of demilitarising and redeveloping Gaza.

Sir Tony said the plans were "the best chance of ending two years of war, misery and suffering".

A Palestinian source familiar with the ceasefire negotiations told the BBC that Hamas officials had been given the White House's 20-point proposal.
Earlier, a senior Hamas official told the BBC that the group remained open to studying any proposal that could end the war in Gaza, but stressed that any agreement must safeguard Palestinian interests, ensure a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and bring the war to an end.
Sir Tony, who was UK prime minister from 1997 to 2007 and who took the UK into the Iraq War in 2003, has been part of high-level talks with the US and other parties about the future of Gaza.
After leaving office, he served as Middle East envoy for the Quartet of international powers (the US, EU, Russia and the UN). He focused on bringing economic development to Palestine and creating the conditions for a two state-solution.
In August, he joined a White House meeting with Trump to discuss plans for the territory, which US Middle East envoy Steve Witkoff described as "very comprehensive" - though little else was disclosed about the meeting.
Under the plan, unveiled by Trump on Monday evening, the war would "immediately end" once both sides agreed to it.
It would also see all 20 living Israeli hostages and the remains of more than two dozen who are believed to be dead returned within 72 hours.
Israel would then release 250 life-sentence prisoners plus 1,700 Gazans detained since the war began on 7 October 2023.
"Full aid" would immediately be sent to Gaza, the plan says. A multinational stabilisation force would deploy to support security and train local police. Israeli forces would withdraw in stages.
According to the text of the plan, "Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza.
"This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international experts, with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional body, the 'Board of Peace,' which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of State to be announced, including Former Prime Minister Tony Blair."
Hamas, the plan states, would have no role in governance, "directly, indirectly, or in any form".
Trump said that if Hamas rejected the deal, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would have his "full backing" to "do what you would have to do".
The plan also leaves the door open to an eventual Palestinian state, but only if the Palestinian Authority carries out sweeping reforms.
The president also hit out at countries for "foolishly" recognising Palestine statehood - as the UK, Australia, Canada and France did last week.
Responding to the announcement, Sir Tony said: "President Trump has put down a bold and intelligent plan which, if agreed, can end the war, bring immediate relief to Gaza, the chance of a brighter and better future for its people, whilst ensuring Israel's absolute and enduring security and the release of all hostages.
"It offers us the best chance of ending two years of war, misery and suffering and I thank President Trump for his leadership, determination and commitment.
"In particular, his willingness to chair the Board of Peace to oversee the new Gaza is a huge signal of support and confidence in the future of Gaza, of the possibility of Israelis and Palestinians finding a path to peace and of the potential for a broader regional and global alliance to counter the forces of extremism and promote peace and prosperity between nations."
The plan announced on Monday marks a shift from earlier ideas floated by the Trump administration. In February, Trump declared the US would take over the Gaza Strip and build a "riviera of the Middle East"
The idea would have involved the forced displacement of Palestinians in the territory and be in violation of international law, a step Sir Tony's office vowed not to support.
The Israeli military launched a campaign in Gaza in response to the Hamas-led attack on southern Israel in 2023, when about 1,200 people were killed and 251 others were taken hostage.
At least 66,055 people have been killed in Israeli attacks in Gaza since then, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.
A UN-backed body recently confirmed that famine was taking place in Gaza City. Earlier this month, a UN commission of inquiry concluded that Israel had committed genocide in Gaza - which Israel strongly rejects.

 

[jon0844]

The 20 point plan is a joke, but now sets up Hamas to fail and the fate of the Palestinians to be sealed. Trump and others can then say 'well they had their chance'.

The clearout of Gaza can then be completed and US and no doubt UK firms can queue up to land lucrative rebuilding contracts. It's like Iraq all over again, except at least then the Iraqis got to stay.

 

[GusB]

The 20 point plan is a joke, but now sets up Hamas to fail and the fate of the Palestinians to be sealed. Trump and others can then say 'well they had their chance'.

The clearout of Gaza can then be completed and US and no doubt UK firms can queue up to land lucrative rebuilding contracts. It's like Iraq all over again, except at least then the Iraqis got to stay.

Hamas has certainly been set up to fail. The amount of time to consider the "deal" is ridiculously short.

Trump gives Hamas ‘three or four days’ to respond to his peace plan for Gaza

US president warns militant group will ‘pay in hell’ if it rejects the deal, which seeks to end two-year-long war

www.theguardian.com

Donald Trump has given Hamas an ultimatum of “three or four days” to respond to his proposed peace and reconstruction plan in Gaza, warning the militant group would “pay in hell” if it rejects the deal, as the Israeli offensive continued, inflicting further civilian casualties.

Trump’s proposal was announced in a joint press conference in Washington with Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and seeks a definitive end to the relentless two-year-long war. At least 31 Palestinians were killed across Gaza on Tuesday, local hospitals said.


Asked how long Hamas had to respond, Trump said on Tuesday: “We’re going to do about three or four days.” He later warned that Hamas would face severe consequences if they refused.

“We have one signature that we need, and that signature will pay in hell if they don’t sign,” Trump told US generals and admirals gathered at a military base in Quantico, Virginia. The president has already made clear that he would support Israel continuing the war if Hamas rejects the proposal, or reneges on the deal at any stage.

Even if Hamas was to agree to this and disarm, how long would it be before Israel decides to carry on regardless? Israel doesn't have a stellar reputation for sticking to cease-fire agreements.

The whole thing stinks.

 

[brad465]

Hamas have agreed to release all remaining hostages, though want more negotiations on the rest of the peace plan:

Live updates: Trump tells Israel to stop bombing Gaza as Hamas agrees to release hostages

The US president says he believes Hamas is "ready for a lasting peace", as the group seeks further negotiations on his peace proposal.

www.bbc.co.uk

Hamas has agreed to release all the remaining Israeli hostages, but has said it's seeking further negotiations on a number of key points outlined in the US peace plan.

The announcement came hours after US President Donald Trump gave Hamas a deadline of 18:00e (22:00 GMT) on Sunday to accept a peace plan for Gaza or face "all hell".

Trump is set to make remarks on Hamas's "acceptance" of his Gaza peace proposal, the White House said a few moments ago.

We'll be bringing you live updates and analysis here, so stay with us.

The 20 point plan is a joke, but now sets up Hamas to fail and the fate of the Palestinians to be sealed. Trump and others can then say 'well they had their chance'.

The clearout of Gaza can then be completed and US and no doubt UK firms can queue up to land lucrative rebuilding contracts. It's like Iraq all over again, except at least then the Iraqis got to stay.

I'm wondering if Hamas at least partially accepting this plan is calling Israel's bluff; Netanyahu needs continuous war for his own political survival, so maybe Hamas are looking at this and thinking the best hope is accept these plans now and try and gain moral high ground if the Israeli side violates it. Given this happened under Biden, and the strikes launched on negotiators in Qatar, this wouldn't be unprecedented.

 

[jon0844]

I can't help but feel that nothing will be good enough for Israel, and they'll find some excuse to say the deal was broken and continue the bombing. Far too many people have probably already come up with their designs for hotels, apartments and golf courses to let anyone spoil said plans.