2023 Israel - Hamas / Hezbollah war

[dcbwhaley]

Israel just murdered a bunch of journalists documenting the ongoing genocide, by dropping a bomb onto them.

To be honest it's one of the more low level crimes they've committed over the last couple of years. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceqyyrp3yq9o

Not journalist but Hamas operatives.
Every adult and teenage male in Gaza is an Hamas operative and fair game for the IDF

 

[ainsworth74]

Israel needs to unilaterally disengage as well, and an agreement needs to be made with the Gazans that the war can end tomorrow as long as they agree to flush out Hamas and to end any and all attacks against Israel.

Of course Israeli tried that in 2005 and from their perspective it didn't go very well. They got a lot of domestic strife from evicting their settlers and still got attacked by rockets. So good luck persuading this Government to do it again!

The problem, ultimately, is that no-one is willing to step up to take responsibility. Essentially, the Arab world has left Israel to it, and this is perhaps the worst thing of all.

Yes it's part of the tragedy of the Palestinian's (amongst the many others) that they've always been a bargaining chip to external parties coupled with appalling internal leadership. The Arab states took some initial interest in them when they first tried to crush the nascent Israeli state in 1948 but after that they've basically always been little more than a useful stick to beat Israel with but they've never shown any real interest in actually helping.

The wars that have been waged since then have always been about wider regional issues rather than specific to the Palestinian cause. And since the Arab Sates and Israel have settled into grudging co-existence it seems clear that the Arab States pay lip service to the cause but really see the Palestinians as a problem to be ignored.

Not journalist but Hamas operatives.
Every adult and teenage male in Gaza is an Hamas operative and fair game for the IDF

You can't honestly believe that right?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Of course Israeli tried that in 2005 and from their perspective it didn't go very well. They got a lot of domestic strife from evicting their settlers and still got attacked by rockets. So good luck persuading this Government to do it again!

Absolutely! This is why there's no other option than the Arab League securing the borders of Gaza, because Israel also needs (and deserves) protection against Gazans doing exactly the same as they've been doing since 2005. We can and should criticise Israel for what they're doing in Gaza, but we also need to understand that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and they were repaid with countless rocket attacks.

And since the Arab Sates and Israel have settled into grudging co-existence it seems clear that the Arab States pay lip service to the cause but really see the Palestinians as a problem to be ignored.

Yes, couldn't agree more. There's a complete lack of regional leadership here, as there's really no reason why Gaza couldn't function well as a free city. Israel, for all their faults, was very much willing to let Gaza run things by themselves in 2005-6 before the capture of Gilad Shalit, even extending to control of the Rafah border crossing by the Palestinian Authority. But after the last events, who in Israel is really going to be happy with anything other than Israeli control over Gaza?

At the same time, I just wonder where the Arab League is right now. Israel has no real choice but to finish off what they've started there by going into Gaza City, and almost anyone sane knows that the only way to do it is to demolish it block by block, with everything that it entails. It's just mindboggling that no-one in the region has proposed sending in an Arab force to root out Hamas and deliver a functional civilian government, but as you say, they really just seem to ignore the problem while letting Israel do what they want.

 

[Tetchytyke]

And since the Arab Sates and Israel have settled into grudging co-existence it seems clear that the Arab States pay lip service to the cause but really see the Palestinians as a problem to be ignored.

At the same time, I just wonder where the Arab League is right now.

Morocco, a major player in the Arab League, is heavily reliant on Israeli weaponry (primarily from Elbit Systems) to continue its own occupation of Western Sahara and the subjugation of the Sahrawi people.

Sahara occidental : comment Israël exporte son savoir-faire colonial au Maroc - L'Humanité

La normalisation des relations diplomatiques entre Rabat et Tel-Aviv, en 2020, a scellé une solide alliance en matière de défense, de renseignement, de coopération industrielle, de cybe...

www.humanite.fr

Apologies, the article is in French- it doesn't seem to have been reported in the mainstream anglophone media. A bit like the whole occupation of Western Sahara, tbf.

 

[brad465]

Morocco, a major player in the Arab League, is heavily reliant on Israeli weaponry (primarily from Elbit Systems) to continue its own occupation of Western Sahara and the subjugation of the Sahrawi people.

Sahara occidental : comment Israël exporte son savoir-faire colonial au Maroc - L'Humanité

La normalisation des relations diplomatiques entre Rabat et Tel-Aviv, en 2020, a scellé une solide alliance en matière de défense, de renseignement, de coopération industrielle, de cybe...

www.humanite.fr

Apologies, the article is in French- it doesn't seem to have been reported in the mainstream anglophone media. A bit like the whole occupation of Western Sahara, tbf.

Sounds like a case of neo-colonialism, similar to China's Belt & Road initiative (don't directly occupy/colonise other countries, but make them in debt to you so they don't object to your atrocities carried out elsewhere).

 

[martin butler]

As I said previously, Isreal are really doing the rest of the arab worlds dirty work for them, Hamas, and Iran, are a danger not just too Israel, but to all moderate Arab states, there used to be a bit of a taboo about Arab states fighting fellow Arabs, fellow Muslims etc, and many of the nations, have people that support the Palestinian peoples, even if their countries don't, many fear uprisings , that might topple their own rule, and thats why they turn a blind eye, but secretly welcome their problems being sorted out by another country, that they can hold at arms length.

 

[brad465]

We're now at the point Madonna is advising the Pope to visit Gaza ASAP:

Madonna urges Pope to visit Gaza 'before it's too late'

The US pop star says the pontiff is "the only one of us who cannot be denied entry".

www.bbc.co.uk

Madonna has urged Pope Leo XIV to visit Gaza and bring his "light to the children before it is too late".
The US queen of pop shared her plea on social media, external, saying the pontiff was "the only one of us who cannot be denied entry."
Her intervention came as the UK, EU, Australia, Canada and Japan issued a statement saying "famine is unfolding in front of our eyes" and urged action to "reverse starvation".
"Most Holy Father, please go to Gaza and bring your light to the children before it's too late," Madonna posted on Instagram. "As a mother, I cannot bear to watch their suffering.
"The children of the world belong to everyone.
"You are the only one of us who cannot be denied entry."
Israel has faced mounting pressure over the humanitarian situation in Gaza, with UN-backed experts last month warning "the worst-case scenario of famine" was playing out in the besieged territory.
It has continued to deny there is starvation in Gaza and has accused UN agencies of not picking up aid at the borders and delivering it.
Last week the UN's humanitarian agency said the amount of aid entering Gaza continued to be "far below the minimum required". It said it continued to see impediments and delays as it tries to collect aid from Israeli-controlled border zones.
The Like a Prayer singer added: "We need the humanitarian gates to be fully opened to save these innocent children."
She signed off by saying: "There is no more time. Please say you will go. Love, Madonna."
In July, the new Pope renewed his call for a Gaza ceasefire after three people sheltering in the Catholic church in Gaza City were killed in an Israeli strike.
According to PA News, he said: "I appeal to the international community to observe humanitarian law and respect the obligation to protect civilians as well as the prohibition of collective punishment, the indiscriminate use of force, and the forced displacement of populations."

 

[AlterEgo]

We're now at the point Madonna is advising the Pope to visit Gaza ASAP:

Madonna urges Pope to visit Gaza 'before it's too late'

The US pop star says the pontiff is "the only one of us who cannot be denied entry".

www.bbc.co.uk

She does outrank him to be fair.

 

[Belperpete]

Israeli settlement plans will 'bury' idea of Palestinian state, minister says

I think they also bury any idea that the Israeli government wants peace with the Palestinians.

 

[GusB]

Israeli settlement plans will 'bury' idea of Palestinian state, minister says

I think they also bury any idea that the Israeli government wants peace with the Palestinians.

Quoting the article you've linked to:

Israeli far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has said plans to build more than 3,000 homes in a controversial settlement project in the occupied West Bank will "bury the idea of a Palestinian state".

The so-called E1 project between Jerusalem and the Maale Adumim settlement has been frozen for decades amid fierce opposition internationally. Building there would effectively cut off the West Bank from occupied East Jerusalem.

Smotrich said it would thwart the idea of a Palestinian state "because there is nothing to recognise and no one to recognise".

"Nothing to recognise and no one to recognise". I was going to say that I'm lost for words, but I'm not; the words I'd use wouldn't compatible with forum rules and it's a struggle to hold back.

Announcing the plan at a news conference with settler organisation Yesha Council Chairman Israel Ganz and Maale Adumim Mayor Guy Yifrach, Smotrich said the land had been given to the Jews by God.

Ah, so the sky fairy gave them the land. That makes it all okay, doesn't it?

Never mind that all this crap was written in books that are out of date by a couple of millenia and have absolutely no bearing on modern life whatsoever.

I want the population living in the region to have peace whatever their beliefs, but I honestly believe that the likes of Smotrich don't deserve it.

 

[brad465]

Can't link an article due to being on my phone (but top live feed on BBC), but Israel have launched strikes in Qatar targeting Hamas negotiators.

 

[Vinyl_Lap]

Yep. Here's a link to the BBC's live page of the current state of affairs in Qatar.

Donald Trump 'not thrilled' about Qatar strike as international pressure on Israel grows

Qatar calls the strike a "blatant violation" but Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu says the attack targeting Hamas leaders was "fully justified".

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel says it has targeted senior Hamas leaders as explosions heard in Doha

Explosions have been heard and smoke has been seen rising above the Qatari capital Doha, the AFP news agency and Reuters report.

The nature of the incident is not yet clear.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm more surprised they've left them alone this long to be honest...

Though obviously it isn't great (to deploy deliberate understatement!) that they've caught up with them in another country. I wonder if the Qatari's will still be as keen to host Hamas' leadership now that it's brought conflict to their own territory?

 

[MCR247]

As I said previously, Isreal are really doing the rest of the arab worlds dirty work for them, Hamas, and Iran, are a danger not just too Israel, but to all moderate Arab states, there used to be a bit of a taboo about Arab states fighting fellow Arabs, fellow Muslims etc, and many of the nations, have people that support the Palestinian peoples, even if their countries don't, many fear uprisings , that might topple their own rule, and thats why they turn a blind eye, but secretly welcome their problems being sorted out by another country, that they can hold at arms length.

Ah so the ongoing genocide doesn’t benefit the western world it’s for the Arabs? They aren’t doing the wests dirty work or anything?

 

[AlterEgo]

At Doha Airport at the moment. There is no sense or concern or alarm and everything is operating normally.

 

[Purple Train]

Ah, so the sky fairy gave them the land. That makes it all okay, doesn't it?

Never mind that all this crap was written in books that are out of date by a couple of millenia and have absolutely no bearing on modern life whatsoever.

You are of course entitled to your beliefs, but this so-called "crap" and the word of the "sky fairy" does, in fact, have bearing on millions of people's lives even in this "enlightened" age.

Of course it seems to have absolutely no bearing on the lives of the likes of Smoltrich and Netanyahu, who are going to get a pretty nasty shock one of these days, hopefully after a trip to The Hague.

At Doha Airport at the moment. There is no sense or concern or alarm and everything is operating normally.

At least that's a semblance of a good sign - thank you for posting, that's made me feel a little better Safe to say my heart sank quite a long way on getting home this afternoon.

 

[Sorcerer]

I've seen some suggesting elsewhere that Qatar secretly helped sanction the air strike, but naturally would condemn such actions in public. As a US ally hosting the Al Udeid Air Base, a regionally significant military base housing both Qatari, US and Royal Air Forces and a US Command post, along with being next door to Saudi Arabia, another regional Western ally, it's not exactly lacking in security and air defence systems. It would also allow for removal of Hamas from their soil without doing so themselves. But that's just internet conjecture so far, and if this is not the case then it is quite a serious escalation of the conflict on Israeli's part.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I said right at the beginning that this ends the same way the Sri Lanka civil war ended, and that the world will look the other way. Nothing has changed my opinion.

You have to hope Qatar knew about it and didn’t object, otherwise this has the potential to really set fire to the region.

Not a bad time to look at hotels in Doha though!

 

[AlterEgo]

I said right at the beginning that this ends the same way the Sri Lanka civil war ended, and that the world will look the other way. Nothing has changed my opinion.

You have to hope Qatar knew about it and didn’t object, otherwise this has the potential to really set fire to the region.

Not a bad time to look at hotels in Doha though!

The airspace was never closed on my way into Doha this afternoon. Make of that what you will.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The airspace was never closed on my way into Doha this afternoon. Make of that what you will.

My mate, coincidentally, is on a flight to Doha as we speak (connecting to the UK). They haven't been told of any disruption, but he has called off a city tour for the evening!

 

[styles]

My mate, coincidentally, is on a flight to Doha as we speak (connecting to the UK). They haven't been told of any disruption, but he has called off a city tour for the evening!

If I had a transit visa, as I did last time I changed in Doha, I would absolutely be hunkering down outside Burger King with a book rather than heading out to central Doha, even if it was a solid 3 days tbh.

 

[Belperpete]

I've seen some suggesting elsewhere that Qatar secretly helped sanction the air strike, but naturally would condemn such actions in public. As a US ally hosting the Al Udeid Air Base, a regionally significant military base housing both Qatari, US and Royal Air Forces and a US Command post, along with being next door to Saudi Arabia, another regional Western ally, it's not exactly lacking in security and air defence systems. It would also allow for removal of Hamas from their soil without doing so themselves. But that's just internet conjecture so far, and if this is not the case then it is quite a serious escalation of the conflict on Israeli's part.

Qatar has invested heavily in acting as a mediator in negotiations. Why on earth would it then help with something like this?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2025 ==

Can't link an article due to being on my phone (but top live feed on BBC), but Israel have launched strikes in Qatar targeting Hamas negotiators.

Once again demonstrating that the Israelis really aren't interested in negotiating. Blowing up the opposing negotiating team is as good a way as any of derailing negotiations.

As for Netanyahu urging the Palestinians to “Stand up for your rights and for your future,”, words fail me. Isn't this the same man who has refused to countenance them having any right to a state of their own, and hence the right to decide their own future? And how about those Palestinians who are currently standing up for their rights and their future against Israeli settler aggression - how is his government treating them? The hypocrisy of the man is breathtaking.

 

[brad465]

I wonder what Qatar think about that $400 million 747 gift to the US now? (and what many in the US think that Israel has attacked a key ally in the region for the US, playing host to US military resources)

 

[Belperpete]

I wonder what Qatar think about that $400 million 747 gift to the US now? (and what many in the US think that Israel has attacked a key ally in the region for the US, playing host to US military resources)

Not surprisingly, AlJazeera news is covering this in depth. One of their contributors made the comment that there are only two things that are going to stop the US's seemingly unconditional support for Israel: the first if Israel becomes an election liability, and the second is if Israel becomes a geopolitical liability.

The sad truth is that most Americans care little about what happens outside their borders, so the chances of Israel becoming an election liability is negligible. As to Israel becoming a geopolitical liability, the big question is who needs who the most - do the Arab states need the US as much as the US needs them? Again, the sad truth is that the Arab states will make strong protestations, but are highly unlikely to turn their backs on the US. The US will give Netanyahu a slapped wrist in order to placate the Arab states, and Netanyahu will carry on with the genocide.

As such, I think the Qataris probably think their gift was a good move. They need the US, so the stronger their ties with the US, the better.

 

[zero]

If I had a transit visa, as I did last time I changed in Doha, I would absolutely be hunkering down outside Burger King with a book rather than heading out to central Doha, even if it was a solid 3 days tbh.

Sorry, I must be missing something but what is the significance of Burger King and why would you stay outside one for 3 days?

(Also British citizens haven't needed any visas to visit/transit Qatar since at least 2017.)

I can't find any objective information about where exactly the Israeli strike hit, but on social media I have seen that apparently what was targeted was a residential villa, around the broad area where the Polish embassy and the Katara metro station are located. If correct, that is uncomfortably close to some high class hotels and the expat area of the Pearl.

While Israel evidently doesn't care about collateral damage and possibly doesn't consider any of Gaza to be "collateral" anyway, I really doubt they would bomb downtown Doha even if a large group of Hamas officials were there. That said if I was transiting Qatar yesterday/today I probably would also choose to remain at the airport. If I was already downtown at the time of the air strikes I guess I would see what the prevailing mood is.

When I was in Doha earlier this year I did go walking around local residential neighbourhoods, so it does come as a bit of a shock that I could have easily gone near to where officials of Hamas or other high-profile targets were staying.

 

[styles]

Sorry, I must be missing something but what is the significance of Burger King and why would you stay outside one for 3 days?

If I suspected the central area of Doha was being targeted in an attack I'd stay in the airport. It didn't have to be BK specifically... Though there are plug sockets there.

(Also British citizens haven't needed any visas to visit/transit Qatar since at least 2017.)

I haven't had a long transit in Doha for years. It's not really relevant to the main point of the post though. If I had a long transit, visa-requiring or not, I wouldn't be heading into the city.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry, I must be missing something but what is the significance of Burger King and why would you stay outside one for 3 days?

(Also British citizens haven't needed any visas to visit/transit Qatar since at least 2017.)

I can't find any objective information about where exactly the Israeli strike hit, but on social media I have seen that apparently what was targeted was a residential villa, around the broad area where the Polish embassy and the Katara metro station are located. If correct, that is uncomfortably close to some high class hotels and the expat area of the Pearl.

While Israel evidently doesn't care about collateral damage and possibly doesn't consider any of Gaza to be "collateral" anyway, I really doubt they would bomb downtown Doha even if a large group of Hamas officials were there. That said if I was transiting Qatar yesterday/today I probably would also choose to remain at the airport. If I was already downtown at the time of the air strikes I guess I would see what the prevailing mood is.

When I was in Doha earlier this year I did go walking around local residential neighbourhoods, so it does come as a bit of a shock that I could have easily gone near to where officials of Hamas or other high-profile targets were staying.

The location of the strike is exactly here, in a residential area. https://maps.app.goo.gl/V4QnP96pVz64kiJM7

 

[yorkie]

RTÉ: Ireland threatens to withdraw from Eurovision if Israel participates

The Irish broadcaster said that Ireland's participation in the contest "would be unconscionable given the ongoing and appalling loss of lives in Gaza".

www.bbc.co.uk

The Irish broadcaster, RTÉ, has said it will not take part in the 2026 Eurovision Song Contest "if the participation of Israel goes ahead".

In a statement, RTÉ said that Ireland's participation in the event "would be unconscionable given the ongoing and appalling loss of lives in Gaza"...

Good on Ireland; I just wish we had a backbone in this country.

And more may follow suit:

Slovenia's national broadcaster, RTVSLO, has also said it will withdraw from the competition if Israel participates.

Spain's Culture Minister Ernest Urtasun has said that his country may also not take part should Israel participate.

I don't understand why we don't treat Israel in the same manner as we (correctly) treated South Africa in the era of apartheid.

Why is it that Israel is allowed to get away with atrocities, racism and genocide?

 

[brad465]

I don't understand why we don't treat Israel in the same manner as we (correctly) treated South Africa in the era of apartheid.

Why is it that Israel is allowed to get away with atrocities, racism and genocide?

Might have something to do with this:

 

[Belperpete]

I don't understand why we don't treat Israel in the same manner as we (correctly) treated South Africa in the era of apartheid.

Why is it that Israel is allowed to get away with atrocities, racism and genocide?

It did take us rather a long time to finally take action against South Africa.

At least we have started to censure Israel, but our government seems to be walking a tight rope trying not to do anything that would seriously upset the Trump administration. However, I really don't understand why the US administration consistently stands four-square behind Israel regardless of the atrocities it commits.

My view is that just as Hamas has been designated a terrorist organisation, so should the IDF. It is patently carrying out terrorist acts, not to mention genocide, but also bombing and killing civilians in neighbouring countries.