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Thoughts on the Trump presidency

jon0844

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You cant go around shooting people you disagree with. That shouldn't need saying but that it does shows how messed up the world is.

Thankfully almost all comments have said this, even if many have added that he had said losing a few lives was acceptable to protect the 2nd Amendment.

I briefly looked on X and even there it did seem like there weren't many people celebrating his murder, but still saying he was a nasty person and they wouldn't lose sleep over his death.

I've seen a lot of comments blaming the left, and seen some people suggest the shooter was trans (based on what I do not know). The latest reports appear to be that the shooter was of college age, but shot from a roof and presumably got away quickly. There are also some videos that show some people making what appears to be baseball style signals to what might have been the shooter, but I have zero way of verifying if such video was from that incident or wasn't published out of context.

There are many conspiracy theories already that Trump had him shot so as to be able to continue with the plan to make out the democrats/left are domestic terrorists. Stephen Miller literally said this a week or so ago, and they're putting the National Guard into blue states to imply they're on the verge of civil war. I can't quite believe that, but it WILL suit Trump and the GOP in general in making life a lot harder for a lot of people in the coming months and up to the mid-terms.
 
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martin butler

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Will Trump use this death, of course he will, to try to clamp down on freedom, No doubt there will be a backlash, I suspect that is what some in trumps orbit wanted, a martyr so they can turn the US into an dictatorship. But Trumps just the useful idiot,

About the shooting, A single shot, over distance, , this was no accidental shooting, this was organised, and targeted, very few, have those skills,
 

Purple Train

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It's either due to willful ignorance, a lack of education or simply not knowing any better. Or a combo of all three, which is more a little worrying, but sadly tracks with what we see on a regular basis. Just with presidents alone, 4 have been assasinated since the nation's founding - Lincoln in 1865, James A. Garfield in 1881, William McKinley in 1901 and JFK in 1963 - and there have been countless other attempts on other presidents aside from on Trump himself last year, the first of these unsuccessful attempts was on Andrew Jackson in 1835. Yeah, it goes back that far.

Simply put, the US's political history has been steeped in blood and violence for much of it's existence and for one to assert that violence has no place at all is at best ignorant of their own history or is at worst partaking in history revisionism to suit their own ends. Of course, I'm not advocating for political violence, of course not. I'm merely stating historical fact, something Trump and his goons see as tantamount to treason.
A very good analysis. For context, the only British Prime Minister to ever be assassinated was Spencer Perceval back in 1812.

The whole state of affairs does feel like it is going to be the catalyst for something very, very major indeed. I just hope to goodness that it is towards the less brutal end of the spectrum. One man's death is already too many.
 

sad1e

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The whole state of affairs does feel like it is going to be the catalyst for something very, very major indeed.
I bet there will be some kind of violent riots or protest in some shape or form in the USA by the end of the year.

Whether the violence be the protests themselves or the government response to it , that's for the future to tell , but there's no way there won't be any kind of display of public frustration with political tensions rising this fast.
 

brad465

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Something that occurred to me earlier, is that whoever is put on trial over this could, depending on Federal/State law, have a strong case for not having the right to a fair trial. Why? Because Trump, and several of his acolytes, won't keep their mouths shut.
 

Cloud Strife

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A second US civil war would by definition be WWIII. There is no way outside powers would stay out of it. Also, if the US implodes into such violence, prepare for a market crash and economic crisis that makes The Great Depression look like a bad business quarter.

The thing is: why would outside powers want to get involved? I can't imagine Europe getting involved, except to take in refugees who have escaped through Canada or Mexico, but otherwise they'd be very busy with their own security. Russia and China would stay well out of it, so who else would potentially join in? I can't see Canada or Mexico wanting any part of an American civil war.

I bet there will be some kind of violent riots or protest in some shape or form in the USA by the end of the year.

My money is on a flood of tit for tat assassinations, possibly leading to the Republicans getting wiped out in the midterms when they're completely unable to deal with it. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that America has become a very dangerous place to become politically active.

I've just spotted on The Guardian that there have been a wave of threats made towards historically Black colleges, and I wouldn't be hugely surprised to see a wave of violence against minorities in the US.
 

AlterEgo

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I've seen a lot of comments blaming the left, and seen some people suggest the shooter was trans (based on what I do not know).
Probably because Kirk had just dealt with a question about how many mass shooters in the US are trans. That exchange is available in one of the longer clips on social media. Immediately after that he goes on about the gang violence issue.

I've seen the CCTV stills and I'm sceptical the shooter is definitely of college age. Could be anything from 17 to 40. Was wearing a patriotic t-shirt with a flag and bald eagle. Still at large apparently.
 

Darandio

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I've seen the CCTV stills and I'm sceptical the shooter is definitely of college age. Could be anything from 17 to 40. Was wearing a patriotic t-shirt with a flag and bald eagle. Still at large apparently.

I'd agree with you. If anything i'd put him at the higher end based on those images, probably 35-38.
 

Gloster

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I reckon that we are likely to see more attempts against political figures and those representing various organisation and interests on both sides, together with the organisation themselves.

The government will use its agencies against groups that they dislike, but particularly against the Democrats and minority groups, which is only likely to provoke a reaction, which will then push the spiral further.

Before long, the government will invoke the National Emergencies Act (I think that is the correct one) to really smash down on those it dislikes. There are checks and balances in the Act, but once the powers are in use they can probably be blocked.
 

GusB

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There's a now $100k reward for information about the suspect. I've a feeling that this won't ever get to trial, though.

The FBI has released two images of a person of interest in connection with the fatal shooting of rightwing activist Charlie Kirk and asked for the public’s help in identifying them.

The pictures posted on X show a person in sunglasses, a baseball cap, a long-sleeved black shirt with a US flag on the front and dark jeans. The FBI is offering up to $100,000 for information leading to the identification and arrest of the person.

The sniper who killed Kirk at Utah Valley University Wednesday is believed to have jumped off a roof after firing one shot and fled into a nearby neighborhood, and has not been identified, authorities in Utah said on Thursday.

Officials said they had recovered a high-powered bolt-action rifle they believe was used in the attack and are reviewing video footage of a suspect.

Additionally, I've just heard a clip of Trump on the radio and he's banging on about the radical left. I understand that Kirk was a personal friend, but he should be urging people to show restraint rather than pouring fuel on the flames.
 

JamesT

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Probably because Kirk had just dealt with a question about how many mass shooters in the US are trans. That exchange is available in one of the longer clips on social media. Immediately after that he goes on about the gang violence issue.

I've seen the CCTV stills and I'm sceptical the shooter is definitely of college age. Could be anything from 17 to 40. Was wearing a patriotic t-shirt with a flag and bald eagle. Still at large apparently.
It’s also being reported that there were bullets found with the rifle were engraved with “expressions of transgender and antifascist ideology.”
 

sad1e

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he's banging on about the radical left. pouring fuel on the flames.
It's Trump , do you really expect him not to use this situation to his advantage to fuel division and hatred for groups he doesn't like. It's the only thing he's seemed good at during his presidency.
 

DerekC

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I see the Reichstag is on fire again.
I saw that one - stated by Matt Forney, a right wing "influencer". Having depressed myself last week by reading Richard J Evans "The Coming of the Third Reich" I found that quite unbelievable. Does he not know what followed? It seems he does, because he went on to say (as quoted by Time Magazine):
https://time.com/7316315/republicans-far-right-reacts-charlie-kirk-death-blame-left-crackdown/
“It is time for a complete crackdown on the left. Every Democratic politician must be arrested and the party banned under RICO [Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act]. Every libtard commentator must be shut down. Stochastic terrorism. They caused this.”
It the parallel is exact then it's time for right wing militia committing mayhem and murder on the streets, political control from the centre of all state legislatures and governments, cleansing of congress, righteous-thinking people (i.e. party members) in control of all societies and clubs right down to the level of local sports, closing down of opposition newspapers and media, bringing of recalcitrant judges into line through threats of violence, usually followed up by assassination anyway. It was all achieved in six months in 1932, with the German Army standing to one side. Is something comparable really going to happen in the USA in 2025/26? I somehow doubt it - Trump will get scared of what he is unleashing and call the dogs off - but if he leaves it too long it may be too late.
 
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In terms of good news, Bolsenaro has been given 27 years behind bars.


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Brazil’s former far-right president Jair Bolsonaro has been sentenced to more than 27 years in prison for plotting a military coup and seeking to “annihilate” the South American country’s democracy.

Justices Cármen Lúcia Antunes Rocha and Cristiano Zanin ruled on Thursday that Bolsonaro – a former paratrooper who was elected president in 2018 – was guilty of seeking to forcibly cling to power after losing the 2022 election, meaning four of the five judges involved in the trial had found Brazil’s former leader guilty.



a man in a suit
‘He’s always on the attack’: the Brazilian judge prosecuting Bolsonaro inspires both love and hate
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Announcing Bolsonaro’s sentence for crimes including coup d’etat and violently attempting to abolish Brazil’s democracy on Thursday night, the supreme court justice Alexandre de Moraes said: “[He tried to] annihilate the essential pillars of the democratic rule-of-law state … the greatest consequence [of which] … would have been the return of dictatorship to Brazil.”


Delivering her decisive vote, Rocha denounced what she called an attempt to “sow the malignant seed of anti-democracy” in Brazil – but celebrated how the country’s institutions had survived and were fighting back.

“Brazilian democracy was not shaken,” Rocha told a court in the capital, Brasília, warning of the spread of “the virus of authoritarianism”.

On Tuesday two other judges, Moraes and Flávio Dino, also declared the 70-year-old politician guilty of leading what the former called “a criminal organisation” that had sought to plunge the South American country back into dictatorship.

“Jair Bolsonaro was leader of this criminal structure,” Moraes said during a five-hour address in which he offered a comprehensive account of the slow-burn conspiracy against Brazilian democracy.

“The victim is the Brazilian state,” said Moraes, claiming the plot had unfolded between July 2021 and January 2023, when Bolsonaro supporters rampaged through Brasília after the election’s leftwing winner, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, took power.

A fifth judge, Luiz Fux, voted to absolve Bolsonaro on Wednesday, claiming there was “absolutely no proof” the former president had been aware or part of an alleged plot to assassinate Lula and Moraes in late 2022, or had tried to stage a coup.


Fux called the 8 January 2023 uprising – when hardcore Bolsonaristas ransacked the supreme court, presidential palace and congress – a “barbaric act” that had caused “damage of an Amazonian-scale”. But the judge, who also controversially argued that the court lacked jurisdiction over the case, claimed there was no proof Bolsonaro was to blame for inciting the riots.

Brazil’s Federal supreme court (STF) minister Carmen Lucia.
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Brazil’s federal supreme court minister Carmen Lucia.Photograph: Eraldo Peres/AP
Fux did, however, vote to convict two of Bolsonaro’s closest allies – his former defence minister, Gen Walter Braga Netto, and his former aide-de-camp, Lt Col Mauro Cid – for the crime of violently attempting to abolish Brazilian democracy. The judge concluded that the pair had helped plan and bankroll a plot to murder Moraes in order to generate social mayhem they hoped would trigger a military intervention.


There were leftwing celebrations outside the supreme court as Rocha sealed the fate of Bolsonaro and seven other close allies who were also convicted. They include the former defence ministers, Netto and Gen Paulo Sérgio Nogueira de Oliveira, the former minister for institutional security, Gen Augusto Heleno, and the former navy commander, Adm Almir Garnier Santos.

Bolsonaro’s former spy chief, Alexandre Ramagem, and justice minister, Anderson Torres, were also found guilty, as was Cid.

“Today, Brazil is making history,” Lindbergh Farias, the leader of Lula’s Workers’ party in the lower house of congress, said as he emerged from the building. “Brazil is saying: ‘Coups are a crime!’”


A supporter of the ruling Workers' Party (PT) known as the Trompetista plays a funeral march with his trumpet in front of the condominium where former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro lives in Brasilia, Brazil on August 4, 2025. A Brazilian judge Alexandre de Moraes on August 4, 2025, ordered former president Jair Bolsonaro, who is on trial for coup plotting, to be placed under house arrest for breaking a ban on using social media. Photo: Ueslei Marcelino
‘I’m holding his political wake’: the trumpeter waiting to mark Bolsonaro’s judgment day
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Fabiano Leitão, a trumpeter who has spent years using his instrument to criticise Bolsonaro, turned up to mark the day of history with a rendition of Chopin’s Funeral March that symbolised the former president’s downfall. “It’s the end! It’s the end of this guy!” Leitão said as he pulled out his trumpet.

After playing the sombre composition, the leftwing musician launched into a lively samba, capturing the joy many Brazilians feel at the demise of a politician they blame for attacking their country’s democracy, environment and minorities. “The extreme right is a mechanism of destruction of countries. It destroys everything: healthcare, science, technology, education, culture. It destroys it all. So this is a historic moment for this county,” Leitão said. “Justice is done, comrades!”


Bolsonaro’s senator son, Flávio Bolsonaro, called the verdict political persecution and Donald Trump said the conviction was “very surprising”.

“That’s very much like they tried to do with me. But they didn’t get away with it at all,” said the US president who has spent recent months trying to pressure Brazil’s supreme court and government into halting Bolsonaro’s trial with a campaign of tariffs and sanctions.

“The United States will respond accordingly to this witch hunt,” tweeted the US secretary of state, Marco Rubio, calling the conviction “unjust”.

Supporters of Bolsonaro demonstrate in São Paulo: a crowd packs into a city centre street waving green and yellow Brazilian flags and holding up their hands; one person holds up a placard with an image of Bolsonaro smiling and holding up his hands in V for victory signs. The crowd appears to include young and older people, black and white.
View image in fullscreen
Supporters of Bolsonaro demonstrated in São Paulo on Brazilian Independence Day (7 September). Photograph: Amanda Perobelli/Reuters
Eduardo Bolsonaro, another son of the former president, told Reuters he expected the US to apply further sanctions against officials following his father’s conviction.



In a post on social media, Brazil’s foreign ministry rejected the statement from US officials, saying “threats like those made today by the US secretary of state Marco Rubio … will not intimidate our democracy”.

The former president did not attend court this week, remaining in his nearby mansion, where he is under house arrest and police officers have been stationed to ensure he does not flee to one of Brasília’s foreign embassies.

Progressive elation at the downfall of a president blamed for rampant environmental destruction, hundreds of thousands of Covid deaths and attacks on minorities, has been tempered by the realisation that his political movement remains very much alive. Some fear Fux’s questioning of the judges’ authority over the case could open the door to legal challenges and even the trial’s annulment in the future.


Supporters of Jair Bolsonaro take part in a demonstration in supprt of those arrested for the attempted coup attacks on the National Congress.
Anatomy of a coup plot: why Jair Bolsonaro is on trial
Read more

“I wouldn’t declare Jair Bolsonaro’s political death,” said Dr Camila Rocha, a political scientist from the Brazilian Centre for Analysis and Planning, who studies the Brazilian right.

Rocha expected supporters of the former president to keep fighting to rescue their leader from jail. Likely strategies include trying to elect a large number of rightwing senators in next year’s elections who could impeach members of the supreme court considered Bolsonaro’s foes; petitioning Donald Trump to heap more pressure on Brazil over Bolsonaro’s plight; and trying to ensure that a pro-Bolsonaro candidate beats Lula in the 2026 presidential election. Their hope was that a rightwing president might grant Bolsonaro a pardon, although the supreme court could torpedo those plans, she said.


“I think they’ll continue trying various ways of getting Bolsonaro out of jail and to uphold his leadership and keep him visible,” she predicted.

In recent weeks, pro-Bolsonaro lawmakers have been pushing the idea of an amnesty for their leader and others who were involved in the coup attempt and the 8 January 2023 riots in Brasília. They claim such forgiveness would help pacify a politically divided country.

But Fabio Victor, the author of a book about military involvement in Brazilian politics called Camouflaged Power, said he believed an amnesty would serve as an “incentive to illegality”. “It would send an awful signal – it would undoubtedly represent a setback to democracy,” he warned.’
 
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Cdd89

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I feel the comments about the US being finished may come from not spending much time there. As a country with 5× the UK population, there are 5× as many cranks to make headlines. If you talk to people there you'll find most people are friendly and tolerant and keep their political beliefs to themselves.
 

Bantamzen

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I feel the comments about the US being finished may come from not spending much time there. As a country with 5× the UK population, there are 5× as many cranks to make headlines. If you talk to people there you'll find most people are friendly and tolerant and keep their political beliefs to themselves.
You are right about most Americans, they are friendly, decent people.

However, it's not just the number of cranks that's important here, or even the fact that those cranks could have access to hunting or assault rifles.

What's more concerning right now is just how polarised politics there has become, remember the 2021 storming of the Capitol Building? That would have been unthinkable until Trump's first term, and only avoided becoming a bloodbath because his supporters had come directly from his infamous rally and had not been allowed to carry arms to it. Without that, a civil war may have started right there.
 

sad1e

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you'll find most people are friendly and tolerant and keep their political beliefs to themselves.
Even if most people are tolerant the government response to the assassination of Charlie Kirk definitely isn't very positive.

Instead of just addressing it for what it is and trying to do something about gun control like any sane government would.
Trump is using it to divide the republicans and democrats blaming " The left and it's politics" and calling them directly responsible for acts of political terrorism.

It doesn't matter if most people in the country are sane normal people, if the government of a country is talking like that is using the death of a well known figure to cause tensions to rise , that country is well and truly cooked politically wise.

You would never see anything close to this response to this situation happening if it happened in any other country in the world and that alone should tell you something about the state of America at the moment.
 

AlterEgo

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I feel the comments about the US being finished may come from not spending much time there. As a country with 5× the UK population, there are 5× as many cranks to make headlines. If you talk to people there you'll find most people are friendly and tolerant and keep their political beliefs to themselves.
There is a far higher concentration of cranks in America and I can tell you that from having spent loads of time and I've ticked off 42 states. There are also a lot of them that are armed.

Most people are friendly and tolerant and hard working - Americans are in the main good and personable people. But there are a lot of cranks on both sides of the political divide, and some who have no discernible politics at all.
 

Harpo

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if the government of a country is talking like that is using the death of a well known figure to cause tensions to rise , that country is well and truly cooked politically wise.

You would never see anything close to this response to this situation happening if it happened in any other country in the world
I really wish I shared your confidence. I would never have expected to see a person touted as our next Prime Minister martyring an individual jailed for inciting mass murder as a 'political prisoner'.

We don't have many degrees of separation currently.
 

dangie

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Most people are friendly and tolerant and hard working - Americans are in the main good and personable people. But there are a lot of cranks on both sides of the political divide, and some who have no discernible politics at all.
When you have a country with a population of close to 350 million, even if only an extremely small population are cranks, it can still mean a lot of cranks.
 

Three-Nine

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The “trans” angle is probably only coming up because the Republicans are looking for any excuse to vilify that particular community at the moment.

There was a trans person involved in a shooting incident a few weeks back which the US political right has leapt on to - ironically enough - as an excuse to potentially ban gun ownership but only for trans people, despite only a tiny fraction of trans people having been involved in such events (something like 3 out of over 2,000 events) as the “active shooter”.

Supposedly the shooter's bullets in the Kirk murder were marked with ’anti-fascist” and trans-supporting slogans, which are now thought to be… typical wear/manufacturing marks found on all bullets. The US political right largely, or at least the most vocal part of it, thinks all trans people are mentally unbalanced and to be treated like Hannibal Lector.

As far as I’m aware, there is currently no evidence whatsoever what the shooter's political and gender views are (other than the obvious potential factor of who was targeted, which is not necessarily an indicator).
 
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Cloud Strife

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Is something comparable really going to happen in the USA in 2025/26? I somehow doubt it - Trump will get scared of what he is unleashing and call the dogs off - but if he leaves it too long it may be too late.

I think the truly frightening events won't come from the centre, but it will come from the lower levels.

I fully expect Republican-dominated local legislatures and mayors to go in hard now by enacting all sorts of oppressive measures towards their political opponents, simply because they want to 'own the libs' for this. For instance, take libraries: they're often a sanctuary for minorities, staffed by people who are very warm and welcoming people.

All you have to do is get rid of those librarians and replace them with people who are foaming at the mouth and determined to stoke the culture wars by turning them into yet another propaganda outlet, and you've instantly got a powerful local community force.

In related local Polish news, Trump has suggested that the drones in Poland "could have been a mistake". It's predictably gone down very poorly here, not least because the main opposition party here has staked a lot on their relationship with Trump and friends.

Either way, for me, it's very clear that Europe and NATO should be making clear plans that exclude American involvement for the defence of Europe.
 
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cb a1

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I feel the comments about the US being finished may come from not spending much time there. As a country with 5× the UK population, there are 5× as many cranks to make headlines. If you talk to people there you'll find most people are friendly and tolerant and keep their political beliefs to themselves.
If you talk to ordinary people in any country at any time now and in history, I would expect you'll overwhelming find them friendly, tolerant and keep their political beliefs to themselves.

That would apply to the Roman Empire just before Julius Caesar installed himself as dictator, France just before the French Revolution, England just before the Civil war, Russia, China, Germany, North Korea, etc., etc.

However, this is why we have idioms like "Society is just 3 meals away from revolution"
and Martin Neimoller's poem:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
 

bahnause

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The economic downturn (not really in the news at the moment) will play a part in this whole mess too.

America's farmers, for example are amongst the first just about to find out, that hate and racism is very expensive. At the moment, they are begging Uncle Sam like it's Thanksgiving, and they forgot to cook.

They voted for a man who said government is the problem, then turned around to demand that government is the solution when profits vanished.

When you cheer on politics, that destroy your own markets, deport your workforce and spike your costs, don't act surprised. They see it as a tragedy, but it is economics. What were they thinking? All this is brewing in the background...
 
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Cloud Strife

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Americas farmers for example are amongst the first just about to find out, that hate and racism is very expensive.

There's a very uncomfortable truth that most Western agriculture depends heavily on low paid migrants, legal or otherwise. Farmers will deny it, but it's not a secret that farm work isn't attractive at all for domestic workers in any developed country. One of the ironies, of course, is that farmers tend to be very right wing in their views.
 

AlterEgo

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Suspect in the Kirk shooting now apparently in custody.
 

Annetts key

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There's a very uncomfortable truth that most Western agriculture depends heavily on low paid migrants, legal or otherwise. Farmers will deny it, but it's not a secret that farm work isn't attractive at all for domestic workers in any developed country. One of the ironies, of course, is that farmers tend to be very right wing in their views.
And then people complain about the price of fruit and vegetables or complain that it's imported...

Suspect in the Kirk shooting now apparently in custody.
Trump has said the suspects driver drove him to the station.
Given that Trump and his administration lies or spouts misinformation, you will forgive me if I wait until there is more reliable information.
 

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