390 054 (11-car Pendolino)

[krisk]

I've been on it this morning, can't believe how shiny and new it all is.

 

[Dreadnought]

Well they have done a bit of moving around because 390001, which was Virgin Pioneer, is now being called 101 Squadron, which is what 390045 is called.

But 390045 is staying as 101 Squadron!

huh?

390001 still Virgin Pioneer when it went through Rugby today!

 

[Crossover]

390001 still Virgin Pioneer when it went through Rugby today!

I *think* I saw 390001 today - certainly looked like Pioneer on the nameplate but I was on a train in the opposite direction and the combined speed (although relatively low) was still too much for my eyes so I can't be certain

 

[TomJ93]

I had 390 001 yesterday. Still Pioneer.

 

[Mr Spock]

I heard it is to show tomorrow- I want to get it before the normals wreck it!

Well looking at your picture it appears that you can wreck things yourself i.e feet on the seat opposite!

 

[TomJ93]

On a nigh on 50year old train!

 

[MCR247]

Irrelevent

 

[TomJ93]

Judging by the look of some people on that train my feet were the cleanest things on those seats.

 

[All Line Rover]

I've been on it this morning, can't believe how shiny and new it all is.

Damn it - I didn't have a chance to read the post in time! I could have used my ALR on it. Instead I was on a boring old Super Voyager to London.

How do I find out the diagrams for this train in future? Do the LDB's mention the train number? (Either version )

Also, have Alstom managed to fix the smelly toilet problem? You would have thought so being a new train - they've had 10 years to find a solution! Is anything at all different, or improved?

 

[Skimble19]

Judging by the look of some people on that train my feet were the cleanest things on those seats.

Not the point.. most of us don't want to sit on a seat that's had anyones feet (and any crap they may have trod on before getting on the train) on it..!!

 

[323235]

finishes at Manchester again tonight 2311.

 

[Minilad]

Also, have Alstom managed to fix the smelly toilet problem? You would have thought so being a new train - they've had 10 years to find a solution! Is anything at all different, or improved?

But I thought 390s and Virgin Trains were wonderful and brilliant and nothing could possibly be improved upon !

 

[Crossover]

How do I find out the diagrams for this train in future? Do the LDB's mention the train number? (Either version )

There are gen groups out there - not sure where as I just go from info posted here. As regards LDB, as far as I know, neither version shows the booked train - not even if TRUST does (not that I can access it anyway)

 

[MCR247]

There are gen groups out there - not sure where as I just go from info posted here. As regards LDB, as far as I know, neither version shows the booked train - not even if TRUST does (not that I can access it anyway)

TRUST does, if a train has been allocated to the service

 

[Crossover]

TRUST does, if a train has been allocated to the service

Cheers for that - not knowing the system I wouldn't have known :P

 

[All Line Rover]

But I thought 390s and Virgin Trains were wonderful and brilliant and nothing could possibly be improved upon !

Well, erm, there are a few things, such as:

*Better seat design, with more lining up to the windows
*Comfier seats with more padding (including in First Class)
*More luggage racks - including slightly larger overhead racks
*Less smelly toilets
*More space for customers to move about in "the shop"
*Making sure all automatic doors close firmly with no gap, and don't open by themselves (in particular the one between the seats and the kitchen in Coach K, which on every train seems to have a mind of its own)
*And perhaps a larger, more comfy seat with extra legroom for the driver, plus a tea and coffee making machine that also dispenses biscuits, so that the TM doesn't always have to be called!

I could go on. Perhaps Virgin can't change the specification because it would cost more? I will create a thread about this!

The above doesn't mean that Virgin Trains isn't wonderful and brilliant, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TRUST does, if a train has been allocated to the service

Well at Crewe they always check if the train you are taking is a Pendolino or a Voyager before selling a weekend upgrade.

What is TRUST exactly? What's it's purpose?

 

[Crossover]

*Making sure all automatic doors close firmly with no gap, and don't open by themselves (in particular the one between the seats and the kitchen in Coach K, which on every train seems to have a mind of its own)

Not just me who has noticed that then!

What is TRUST exactly? What's it's purpose?

I'm not the man for explaining exactly what it does however I may be able to offer an insight.

Firstly, this from ORR:
"Train running system TOPS. A train running and punctuality monitoring system, mainly fed by automatic inputs from signalling systems."

Essentially, over LDB it shows all workings, including freights and listing for a particular point shows all trains including passes, not just services that are calling (this much I have witnessed at the local station)
Appears not to neccessarily show all workings as one rescue set (1Z99) didn't show on TRUST when I was at the station. I also don't think it shows things like the Royal Train, or possibly the flasks etc, either. Someone will confirm this I'm sure

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I also don't think it shows things like the Royal Train

It doesn't, but it's always pretty obvious when that is running if you know what to look for and that matches with appointments on consecutive days but a long way apart in the diary on the Palace website...

 

[krisk]

The only thing I can think of with the coach K kitchen door is the amount its being opened is causing it to be defective, on a busy service how many times does it need to be opened by staff? That surely can't help.

Bring back the mk3 with the solid wood door that we could just latch open or lock shut when it suited

 

[MCR247]

Well, erm, there are a few things, such as:

*Better seat design, with more lining up to the windows

The only way you'll get that is by removing seats, and I'm sure people prefer seats.....

 

[All Line Rover]

The only way you'll get that is by removing seats, and I'm sure people prefer seats.....

Arriva aren't removing many (if any) seats during the 158 refurbishment.

I'm sure HST's have similar capacity to a Pendolino, yet far more seats line up with the windows.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure HST's have similar capacity to a Pendolino, yet far more seats line up with the windows.

They have nothing like the same capacity. A 9-car 390 has 145 first class seats and 294 standard class seats or 439 seats total whilst a 2+9 formation HST (as found on EC) has 112 first class seats and 429 standard class or a total of 541 seats. That's more than an extra hundred seats, not exactly a similar number me thinks.

 

[Pumbaa]

I'm sure HST's have similar capacity to a Pendolino, yet far more seats line up with the windows.

Oh come on - you must be being deliberately obtuse.

The bottom line of the problem is not enough seats have window views in the 390. Why? Because the window pillars are very thick. Why? Because of their design, and their construction...

Each window pillar hides a vertical support stanchion, which pretty much goes the entire height of the car. It is physically impossible to make the windows any bigger on the design. You could make them bigger and redesign them if you a) lessened the tilt to 6 degrees like the Voyager, but you'd lose time or b) removed the need to tilt all together, but that won't work.

The windows can't be any higher due to the body profile required for the 9 degrees tilt. The cylindrical design of the body is designed to be safe, as safe as possible. The windows fit perfectly where they do as if they went any further round the body, they'd be subject to stress in the event of any impact and fail.

In short it's a trade-off. The design of the train makes it as fast as possible, it tilts at 9 degrees with a lot of 125mph running. If you change the design in any way, it'll suddenly become less good at its job.

Wrt to slotting luggage racks in pillars etc, you'll just lose seats! The Pendo has a high capacity, lessen it and you'll get more disgruntled passengers. The basic design of the tri-ribbed carriage results in three equal sized bays (best seen in coach E) where between each internal pillar stanchion (6 per car, 3 down each side) you have 3 windows between each one; 1) a table at the first window (4 seats); 2) 2 viewless pillar seats behind; 3) 2 very good view airline in the middle of the second window; 4) 2 not so good view behind through the second window; 5) 2 behind looking straight side through the third window; 6) 2 behind looking forward through the third window.

That's 16 per side per section, that's 32 per section. 3 sections results in 96 per car before we start messing around with luggage racks, disabled seating and priority seating. Every time you take seats 2) out (the worst seats on the unit) you lose 2 seats every time, and you can't satisfactorily replace them anywhere.

 

[All Line Rover]

But certain luggage racks are in front of windows! It's bonkers!

You can still reconfigure the design of the interior by removing tables (which would mean more seats and more window view seats - everyone's happy!) or by adding tables (even though there would be fewer seats, many people are crying out for more tables).

 

[AlterEgo]

You can still reconfigure the design of the interior by removing tables (which would mean more seats and more window view seats - everyone's happy!)

Not the large portion of passengers who want table seats. About 75% of passengers will request a table seat when they reserve seats.

 

[All Line Rover]

As an example I would like to plug Coach D on Virgin Super Voyagers. Whether it would work on Pendolino's I don't know - but I hope so!

In Coach D, all of the seats line up with the windows and all of the seats have a table (almost) - overall it is a very good design.

Now for the figures:

• Coach D - 58 seats
• Coach C - 68 seats

10 fewer seats (a 15% decrease in capacity) may sound like a lot, but lets not forget that Coach D has "The Shop" - taking up more space. Looking at the seating plan, I'm sure that you could add an extra row of 4 seats in Coach C - all with a window view (but perhaps not with a table). Although 8 seats could just about be squeezed in, that would leave no room for luggage space, which isn't ideal!

If only 4 extra seats could fit into Coach C, the figures would be:

• "Old" Coach C - 68 seats
• "New" Coach C - 64 seats

Would people really complain about the loss of 4 seats (just a 5% decrease in capacity) for the benefit of such a nicer carriage?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not the large portion of passengers who want table seats. About 75% of passengers will request a table seat when they reserve seats.

Really? Wow. I didn't know the percentage was that high! I never request a table when booking seats in Standard Class, because I don't want to be banging my legs into the person opposite.

But if so many people are crying out for extra tables - and are given them, with the benefit of more seats with a view - can they really complain about the less of 4 or so seats? See my post above...

 

[Failed Unit]

I have noticed east coast booking engine the tables go first, don't know if that is by request or if the engine allocates them first, you see a lot of single people booking tables.

 

[northernrail]

Will it be in Picadilly at all tomorrow, were going down for a bit so need to know

 

[MCR247]

The DfT are not letting Virgin fit WiFi on this set :roll:

 

[87019Chris]

Will it be in Picadilly at all tomorrow, were going down for a bit so need to know

Deleted ( me being stupid ).
Chris