RMT industrial action 5th - 12 September 2025

[Horizon22]

So will Stratford station be open then?

Yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2025 ==

The Greenford branch should be unaffected, except for very early and late on Monday and Wednesday, as the station is above ground and does not require staff to be present, aside for opening or closing. There would however likely be no step-free access.

GWR have said they are planning for the branch will be closed. Without staff there’s no access.

 

[Central]

ASLEF are not currently in dispute.

- removal of pay bands, collective bargaining for all staff
- PRIV entitlement
- Boxing Day working payment for all staff (currently £783 for T/Ops)
- fatigue and extreme shift working.
-pay parity for Operational Managers Ruislip

LU are proposing a 35hr 4-day week for trainstaff, and ASLEF are currently working with management to achieve this. RMT have rejected the proposals.

Do LUL still give interest free loans for PRIV season tickets?

 

[Goldfish62]

ASLEF are not currently in dispute.

- removal of pay bands, collective bargaining for all staff
- PRIV entitlement
- Boxing Day working payment for all staff (currently £783 for T/Ops)
- fatigue and extreme shift working.
-pay parity for Operational Managers Ruislip

LU are proposing a 35hr 4-day week for trainstaff, and ASLEF are currently working with management to achieve this. RMT have rejected the proposals.

A 34 hour week appears to have been agreed between TfL and ASLEF, with the Bakerloo being the first line for implementation.

Note the comment about the RMT dispute:

Your Trains Council reps are continuing to meet management as we push on with delivering the 4-day week for train drivers. This will be based on an average rostered week of 34 hours instead of the current average 35-hour week, meaning a huge improvement in quality time off.

Management have confirmed that those who wish to do so will have the option to remain on a 5-day week roster.

Bizarrely, preventing drivers from volunteering to move to a 4-day week with no loss of pay is a central demand of the current RMT dispute. It must be the first time in history that a trade union has called for a strike to prevent its members from having a shorter working week and more days off!

Underground Pay and 4-day week. What's happening?

The final offer?Almost a month on from London Undergrounds “final offer” on pay, none of the four unions have accepted it. The offer of a 3.4% “no strings” pay rise is based on the February RPI inflation rate and while this is similar to offers accepted across other parts of the industry...

www.aslefdistrict8.org

 

[Dstock7080]

Do LUL still give interest free loans for PRIV season tickets?

Yes

 

[Horizon22]

A 34 hour week appears to have been agreed between TfL and ASLEF, with the Bakerloo being the first line for implementation.

Note the comment about the RMT dispute:

On this note:

Bizarrely, preventing drivers from volunteering to move to a 4-day week with no loss of pay is a central demand of the current RMT dispute. It must be the first time in history that a trade union has called for a strike to prevent its members from having a shorter working week and more days off!

I reckon some feel that they don't want to be forced into a longer working day. It is a slightly odd stance, but still.

Also I imagine it is a logistical nightmare to have some drivers on 4 and some on 5 day weeks from a resourcing and rostering perspective.

 

[bramling]

On this note:




I reckon some feel that they don't want to be forced into a longer working day. It is a slightly odd stance, but still.

In general there’s quite a split of opinion in this. As you might expect, older drivers tend to more more against this change compared to younger ones, whilst of course those who live further away are more likely to be in favour.

I think it’s a bad idea. Currently the maximum time on duty is 8h 30mins, which it’s fair to say most drivers find tough. Worse on those likes where the work is more intensive or there is more tunnel work. A lot of drivers in favour will be taking the line “it sounds awful, but I want the extra rest days and I’ll have to do it somehow”. I’m not sure this is sensible nor sustainable, especially for an organisation where sickness levels frankly aren’t great at the best of times.

 

[bluegoblin7]

There is a lot more to the Aslef 4-day working week trial than simply compressed hours. RMT’s main concerns with it are the loss of hard-fought for terms and conditions and several tasks that currently get paid walking/reading/prep time losing that.

Similarly, as mentioned, the potential increase to the fatigue index is a sticking point - a lot of the science suggests that a compressed hours four day week increases fatigue and doesn’t necessarily correlate to more quality time off. There is, sadly, a lot of misinformation (on all sides) around the detail.

FWIW I have no views on this part of the dispute as I am not affected by it. Certainly for my function, Service Control, the four day week is a distraction to the wider issues of pay and remuneration.

 

[WAB]

Why not? Surely the financials are negligible in the grand scheme. And I was under the impression PRIV's could already be added to Oyster cards.

There are two types of PRIV discount on Oysters. One for BR safeguarded staff who get PRIV-rate travel on LU and one for post-96 joiners who don't get it on LU.

 

[Mawkie]

Also I imagine it is a logistical nightmare to have some drivers on 4 and some on 5 day weeks from a resourcing and rostering perspective.

Agreed, the current proposal is for this 4 day week to be introduced on the Bakerloo Line and to be voluntary. Given how complex rostering is, I can't see how that will work. LU haven't really offered any detail (at least that I've seen) and when they had a 4DW trial on the Jubilee Line a few years ago, it was deemed a failure and binned.

 

[Kay_M]

If this 4 day week proposal does go through then basically anyone that would want to join the grade would essentially be shafted for a few years. Those that's already on the rota would have have some impact on them but as I said before those starting out will really feel the effects of it.

 

[whoosh]

Whilst ASLEF are not in dispute, their 4 day week arrangements, having been agreed earlier this year, actually sprout from talks promised in their 2024 pay deal.

They haven't agreed a 2025 pay award.

A 34 hour week appears to have been agreed between TfL and ASLEF, with the Bakerloo being the first line for implementation.

It's a 35 hour week.
It differs from the current 35 hour week though!

The current 35 hour week for Train Operators is an average 36 hour week, with UNPAID breaks over 5 days (so actually a 38.5 hour week), and the extra hour a week is given back in an increased annual leave entitlement.
[When newspapers crow about how much leave Train Operators get, they neglet to mention that some of their leave is actually their own time being given back to them!]

The agreement for a 4 day week going forward, is for an average 34 hour week with PAID breaks, but there will be 4 rest days per year (only on weekdays) that have to be worked with no payment as Briefing/Training/Recertification days. Management will book these will no less than 28 days notice. There will be 1.2 days worked from home per year, unpaid, for "self-managed reading, learning and maintenance of critical knowledge".These additional 5.2 days in total will make it up to a 35 hour week on average throughout the year.

This will benefit the Train Operators who will mostly be having average 34 hour weeks, but will benefit the Management in that the 4 rest days that have to be worked means Safety Briefs and Competency Recertification etc. will now be done on days outside of the roster - no-one needs to be released from their normal duties to do it, and there won't be a 'vacant' duty that day needing covering.

There is a lot more to the Aslef 4-day working week trial than simply compressed hours. RMT’s main concerns with it are the loss of hard-fought for terms and conditions and several tasks that currently get paid walking/reading/prep time losing that.

Similarly, as mentioned, the potential increase to the fatigue index is a sticking point - a lot of the science suggests that a compressed hours four day week increases fatigue and doesn’t necessarily correlate to more quality time off. There is, sadly, a lot of misinformation (on all sides) around the detail.

FWIW I have no views on this part of the dispute as I am not affected by it. Certainly for my function, Service Control, the four day week is a distraction to the wider issues of pay and remuneration.

Yes, booking on time (to check notices) is being abolished, and the Train Operators will book on via their iPad at the platform, so walking time cut too.

There are changes to earliest start and latest finish times. Currently these are 04:45 and 01:30, but will move to 03:45 and 02:30.

Maximum duty length is obviously going to increase with work being compressed into four days, but parameters around how long spells of work before or after a break are increasing too.

There are other changes too.

On the positive side, something which has caused frustration for years - weekend working is actually given a figure of no more than 50% of Saturdays and Sundays rostered to work, which ties in with London Overground.

Agreed, the current proposal is for this 4 day week to be introduced on the Bakerloo Line and to be voluntary. Given how complex rostering is, I can't see how that will work. LU haven't really offered any detail (at least that I've seen) and when they had a 4DW trial on the Jubilee Line a few years ago, it was deemed a failure and binned.

The Jubilee trial was always going to be hamstrung by the unpaid break situation, and I believe also, that they still had the hour boost to 36 hours a week to be given back as extra annual leave days. It was therefore a 38 hour week over four days with duties upto 10 hours including the unpaid 30 minute break.
No surprise it was unpalatable.

 

[Thirteen]

I'll be curious how the RMT handle the media next week since this the first major strikes since Eddie Dempsey became General Secretary. I found that during the NR and TOC strikes, Mick Lynch was good at explaining why they were striking and showing sympathy for affected commuters so hopefully Eddie Dempsey can do the same.

 

[Horizon22]

I'll be curious how the RMT handle the media next week since this the first major strikes since Eddie Dempsey became General Secretary. I found that during the NR and TOC strikes, Mick Lynch was good at explaining why they were striking and showing sympathy for affected commuters so hopefully Eddie Dempsey can do the same.

The media has mainly focussed on the 32 hr week request which I don’t think is going to get much sympathy from anyone. The fatigue element may do, although the response from the mainstream public will be “Well a lot of people do shifts”. Not sure this will play well (even less so than usual!) with the public, to be honest

 

[Mawkie]

If this 4 day week proposal does go through then basically anyone that would want to join the grade would essentially be shafted for a few years.

Yes, the proposal is that new Operators would be held to the initial depot for 5 years!

Maximum duty length is obviously going to increase with work being compressed into four days, but parameters around how long spells of work before or after a break are increasing too

9.5hrs total duty time, going to 10hrs if the Operator wanted overtime.

Maximum time on duty before a break would increase to 5h45m. I don't recall the actual driving time increase.

 

[Kay_M]

Yes, the proposal is that new Operators would be held to the initial depot for 5 years!

9.5hrs total duty time, going to 10hrs if the Operator wanted overtime.

Maximum time on duty before a break would increase to 5h45m. I don't recall the actual driving time increase.

Like I took my time to fully read it and yeah it only helps a small amount of people. Majority of people will get screwed over big time. But the big headline is the reduction of days but missing out on the smaller details.

They can't let this happen.

 

[ricoblade]

Anyone got any intel, vibes on whether this will go ahead please?

Selfishly I've got a trip to London planned Tuesday/Wednesday that is pretty much predicated on tube travel.

 

[tram21]

Anyone got any intel, vibes on whether this will go ahead please?

Selfishly I've got a trip to London planned Tuesday/Wednesday that is pretty much predicated on tube travel.

It will go ahead most likely

 

[Taunton]

The media has mainly focussed on the 32 hr week request which I don’t think is going to get much sympathy from anyone. The fatigue element may do, although the response from the mainstream public will be “Well a lot of people do shifts”. Not sure this will play well (even less so than usual!) with the public, to be honest

My understanding here is there is no particular desire to work just 32 hours, but as that is "4 days" to then volunteer for rest day working on the 5th day, at rest day rates, and even a 6th day, something that can then be withdrawn at any time in support of a dispute.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Anyone got any intel, vibes on whether this will go ahead please?

Selfishly I've got a trip to London planned Tuesday/Wednesday that is pretty much predicated on tube travel.

Given there has been no movement on either side I think it incredibly unlikely that the strike will be called off now… but stranger things have happened.

But yes - sadly I would recommend finding alternative plans for your London trip.

 

[Thirteen]

It's kind of been lost amid the news about the London Underground strikes but I assume the DLR strikes is just about pay and conditions.

 

[trainbow]

Anyone know why the Elizabeth Line core is closed after 10:30pm on Monday and Wednesday?

Absolutely pain the in arse, as I need to get from work in Central to home in East on Wednesday night, so Lizzie Line would make the most sense, but not if it’s closed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2025 ==

Anyone know why the Elizabeth Line core is closed after 10:30pm on Monday and Wednesday?

Absolutely pain the in arse, as I need to get from work in Central to home in East on Wednesday night, so Lizzie Line would make the most sense, but not if it’s closed.

Also note that TfL show this as “Normal service” on the Elizabeth Line which is totally misleading.

 

[Mojo]

It isn’t closed, just trains will not stop at stations between Whitechapel and Bond St inclusive, as these are LU stations, and the station staff will be on strike on Monday & Wednesday. They can call during the day as there will be managers and office staff (as well as some non-striking staff) who can cover, but this is expected to be limited to during the daytimes due to the limited number of staff who can cover meaning they are prioritising during the day when the stations are expected to be busiest

 

[trainbow]

It isn’t closed, just trains will not stop at stations between Whitechapel and Bond St inclusive, as these are LU stations, and the station staff will be on strike on Monday & Wednesday

It’s not open, which means it’s closed.

But thanks, I thought with places like Farringdon having two separate buildings, the Elizabeth Line side was staffed by EL staff, not LUL.

 

[Mojo]

It’s not open, which means it’s closed.

It isn’t closed; the stations are closed but the service is still running.

 

[trainbow]

It isn’t closed; the stations are closed but the service is still running.

Okay fair enough, core stations closed, not core closed. I stand admonished. ☺️

 

[SouthLondonAl]

Yes, the proposal is that new Operators would be held to the initial depot for 5 years!

9.5hrs total duty time, going to 10hrs if the Operator wanted overtime.

Maximum time on duty before a break would increase to 5h45m. I don't recall the actual driving time increase.

Its two years to a depot, five years to the line.

Average duty length will be 8.5 hours, max duty length is 9.5. Overtime has to be agreed when booking on, can't be offered or taken once the duty is in progress.

Max driving time will be 4hrs45.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2025 ==

My understanding here is there is no particular desire to work just 32 hours, but as that is "4 days" to then volunteer for rest day working on the 5th day, at rest day rates, and even a 6th day, something that can then be withdrawn at any time in support of a dispute.

The 'desire' from the RMT is to give members more quality time away from work, thereby reducing fatigue caused by the extreme shifts that they work. As their members have been (apparently) telling them they are fatigued, it would be a bit counter productive to work a rest day if the 32 hour week comes in.

Weirdly they havent stopped them from doing overtime while on a 37.5 hour week, which would surely go some way to alleviating those concerns.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2025 ==

Like I took my time to fully read it and yeah it only helps a small amount of people. Majority of people will get screwed over big time. But the big headline is the reduction of days but missing out on the smaller details.

They can't let this happen.

Assumption or fact?

And, anyway, it's voluntary.

 

[Horizon22]

It’s not open, which means it’s closed.

But thanks, I thought with places like Farringdon having two separate buildings, the Elizabeth Line side was staffed by EL staff, not LUL.

There are EL staff, but the core building and station control is LU managed and controlled and without them - taking into account sub-surface regulations on staffing levels - the station cannot open and trains have to pass through.

The graphic they’ve produced is therefore a little misleading in this regard and the orange warning might have been better.

 

[Tom B]

The media has mainly focussed on the 32 hr week request which I don’t think is going to get much sympathy from anyone. The fatigue element may do, although the response from the mainstream public will be “Well a lot of people do shifts”. Not sure this will play well (even less so than usual!) with the public, to be honest

A lot of people do shifts, but it's different working a long/antisocial shift, booking off, and then getting a bus or tube home... to driving a large number of passengers with the responsibility/expectation that, as well as remaining totally alert throughout, 5 minutes before the end of said shift, you might have to put all the required training/emergency procedures into place.

The graphic is very misleading given that, as everyone knows, the other services will be totally screwed. The attitude of TfL towards passengers is incredibly frustrating. LUL is responsible for running services and will fail to do so as it was unable to reach agreement with their recognised union, but the expectation is that passengers should just put up with it and be shafted.

(For the avoidance of doubt, the staff are perfectly entitled to take strike action and I hold no malice against them whatsoever. My frustration is related to those in charge of LUL - who seem to be presiding over an increasingly sinking ship with a service getting worse as time goes on).

 

[bramling]

A lot of people do shifts, but it's different working a long/antisocial shift, booking off, and then getting a bus or tube home... to driving a large number of passengers with the responsibility/expectation that, as well as remaining totally alert throughout, 5 minutes before the end of said shift, you might have to put all the required training/emergency procedures into place.

The graphic is very misleading given that, as everyone knows, the other services will be totally screwed. The attitude of TfL towards passengers is incredibly frustrating. LUL is responsible for running services and will fail to do so as it was unable to reach agreement with their recognised union, but the expectation is that passengers should just put up with it and be shafted.

(For the avoidance of doubt, the staff are perfectly entitled to take strike action and I hold no malice against them whatsoever. My frustration is related to those in charge of LUL - who seem to be presiding over an increasingly sinking ship with a service getting worse as time goes on).

On the latter point, this is unfortunately TFL all over. For some years now there have been the constant cancellations across the board due to insufficient drivers, constant station closures due to insufficient station staff, and worsening reliability of certain fleets. I don’t think this can all be blamed on money.

 

[Tom B]

There's also a sort of 1984-style "newspeak" in action, at all levels.

Were you delayed significantly? No you weren't, as it says "good service" on the board.

I commented in an email that one of my local stations was unstaffed all day (there having apparently been no cover on either the early or late shift) and the station was abandoned with the gates open and a sign saying to go to the next station, and how this was not good from (a) a customer service, (b) revenue or (c) security perspective, and the reply was "We are glad to confirm that despite staff shortages we were able to keep the station open"...