The Labour Party under Andy Burnham

[Lewisham2221]

I saw on the news some clips of her berating Tory ministers for refusing to resign with the line “one rule for them, another for everybody else”. Which does make her look hypocritical, and as you say perception is everything.

A politician who looks hypocritical? Well there's something new.

In other news, grass is green...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wider government reshuffle in progress.
I wonder if we will see the return of Louise Haigh after 9 months on the back benches for a historical misdemeanor?

 

[WesternLancer]

Resigning as Deputy PM as well means there will be a party election for that, which will be interesting. I suspect they'll try and get it done quickly so it's a done deal by the party conference.

No I don't think so - she is Deputy Leader of the Labour Party (that does not automatically mean you get to be deputy PM). I'm not sure she has resigned as Deputy leader of the Labour Party - as yet. This might yet happen of course.

Labour's internal election process for a deputy leader will take longer than it being done and dusted in a few weeks. That process presumably needs to be done in accordance with the Labour Party rule book.

 

[DarloRich]

There's quite a logistics challenge given it's only three weeks away and there has to be a period for nominations. The cabinet has the right to appoint an interim deputy leader if they wish.

A sensible interim solution imo

 

[WesternLancer]

There's quite a logistics challenge given it's only three weeks away and there has to be a period for nominations. The cabinet has the right to appoint an interim deputy leader if they wish.

Are you confusing Deputy Leader of the Labour Party with Deputy PM? - they are not the same thing. The PM could appoint a Deputy PM this afternoon I suspect, if desired.
But there have been plenty of times when there has been no Deputy PM - it's in fact probably more of a norm not to have Deputy PM.

Gordon Brown had no Deputy PM (and I don't think Mrs Thatcher did) and wikipedia says that no one held the post from 2015 after the coalition ended and Nick Clegg ceased being Deputy PM, to 2021

 

[nr758123]

Somewhat mixed feelings about this. Careless, naive, possibly negligent. I approve of a return to the idea of a return to an era where politicians took responsibility for their actions and resigned if found to have done something wrong, even if unintentionally.

What rankles is Kemi Badenoch calling for Ms Rayner's resignation, when Kemi is perfectly happy to have in her shadow cabinet Robert Jenrick who was caught doing a lucrative favour on a planning matter for a party donor, and was perfectly happy to be part of a government which handed out lucrative contracts to their mates for dodgy or non-existent PPE.

 

[Tetchytyke]

What rankles is Kemi Badenoch calling for Ms Rayner's resignation, when Kemi is perfectly happy to have in her shadow cabinet Robert Jenrick who was caught doing a lucrative favour on a planning matter for a party donor

£45m tax he saved the pornographer Richard Desmond. £45m!

Housing minister admits deliberately helping Tory donor avoid £45m tax bill on development

Housing minister says his actions on the Westferry scheme were consistent with ‘natural justice’

www.independent.co.uk

Embattled housing minister Robert Jenrick has admitted that he deliberately helped a Tory donor avoid paying a new tax on his housing development, and that this was the right thing to do.

Mr Jenrick was criticised for approving Richard Desmond’s luxury housing scheme a day before a community infrastructure levy came in to force, potentially saving the magnate £45m in levies.

Rather puts Rayner's £40k into perspective.

 

[JamesT]

Gordon Brown had no Deputy PM (and I don't think Mrs Thatcher did) and wikipedia says that no one held the post from 2015 after the coalition ended and Nick Clegg ceased being Deputy PM, to 2021

They didn't have the title, but Willie Whitelaw and Geoffrey Howe were de facto Deputy PM during Thatcher's term. Generally there has been someone senior in the Cabinet who will deputise for the PM at PMQs etc. even if they didn't have the specific title.

 

[Thirteen]

Are you confusing Deputy Leader of the Labour Party with Deputy PM? - they are not the same thing. The PM could appoint a Deputy PM this afternoon I suspect, if desired.
But there have been plenty of times when there has been no Deputy PM - it's in fact probably more of a norm not to have Deputy PM.

Gordon Brown had no Deputy PM (and I don't think Mrs Thatcher did) and wikipedia says that no one held the post from 2015 after the coalition ended and Nick Clegg ceased being Deputy PM, to 2021

Deputy PM tends to be chosen on the whims of the PM, Dominic Raab was First Secretary of State as well as Foreign Secretary.

Somewhat mixed feelings about this. Careless, naive, possibly negligent. I approve of a return to the idea of a return to an era where politicians took responsibility for their actions and resigned if found to have done something wrong, even if unintentionally.

What rankles is Kemi Badenoch calling for Ms Rayner's resignation, when Kemi is perfectly happy to have in her shadow cabinet Robert Jenrick who was caught doing a lucrative favour on a planning matter for a party donor, and was perfectly happy to be part of a government which handed out lucrative contracts to their mates for dodgy or non-existent PPE.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rayner ends up returning to Government once this blows over. The fact she has resigned quickly and swiftly after the report is refreshing compared to other people in previous Governments who had to be sacked or stayed put despite being in the wrong.

 

[nr758123]

£45m tax he saved the pornographer Richard Desmond. £45m!

Rather puts Rayner's £40k into perspective.

And it should have been the end of his career in public life.

 

[DarloRich]

You can read the contents of the letter from Sir Laurie Magnus, the Independent Adviser on Ministerial Standards, to the PM here:

Angela Rayner resignation letter and Sir Keir Starmer reply in full

Rayner says she "deeply regrets" her conduct over Hove property, while PM says he's "very sad".

www.bbc.co.uk

I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service. I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the "highest possible standards of proper conduct" as envisaged by the Code. Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.

it seems a fair investigation and response to me.

 

[Harpo]

Genuinely good and competent people don't go into politics anymore (or if they do they don't go far or are corrupted). There are plenty of other professions that not only have comparable, if not better pay, but come with much lower levels of public visibility and responsibility. Throw in the negative attitude towards the profession in general, and good people don't see the attraction. This then leads to the only ones going for it being incompetent, naïve and/or power-hungry, which then reinforces the aforementioned attitudes, creating a negative feedback loop. This is why changing parties of government hasn't solved anything, and why someone like Reform won't improve either. The overarching problem is the whole political system, that goes above parties and politicians, needs overhauling.

I’ve long held the view that parliament is the last great bastion of over-manning. It should be the place for strategic management of the country without debates with elaborate ruled hijacked by the needs of ‘my constituents in Lower Piddling’.

Way fewer MPs, no FPTP, no lords, archaic theatrics discarded, modernised debating, better pay.

 

[SuspectUsual]

What rankles is Kemi Badenoch calling for Ms Rayner's resignation

That’s the same Badenoch who admitted falsifying her CV, and who hacked a Labour MP’s website. People in glass houses and all that

More pertinently, she has been on Twitter saying Starmer should have sacked her days ago, and he was weak for not doing so. Maybe that’s the Tory way *, but I prefer convening an investigation and acting on the results, all in under a week



* obviously it isn’t

 

[Tetchytyke]

The fact she has resigned quickly and swiftly after the report is refreshing compared to other people in previous Governments who had to be sacked or stayed put despite being in the wrong.

Compare how she's behaved to how Nadhim Zahawi behaved. He got his lawyer to send letters to the tax expert Dan Neidle threatening libel, even though Zahawi knew what Neidle had reported was correct.

Zahawi's lawyer behaved so badly that the Solicitors Regulation Authority just fined him £50k (plus £260k costs) because of it.

Osborne Clarke lawyer fined £50k over Nadhim Zahawi 'without prejudice' email - Legal Cheek

Breached code but not SLAPP, says tribunal

www.legalcheek.com

A partner at Osborne Clarke has been fined £50,000 and ordered to pay a hefty £260,000 in costs after a disciplinary tribunal found he breached regulatory rules in a “without prejudice” email to a former Magic Circle partner turned tax blogger.

The matter dates back to the summer of 2022, when Osborne Clarke’s head of client strategy, Ashley Simon Hurst, was advising then-Conservative party chairman Nadhim Zahawi (pictured top) on reputational matters amid high-levels of media scrutiny over his tax affairs.

The tribunal heard that Hurst sent an email, marked “without prejudice”, to Dan Neidle — a former Clifford Chance partner and head of the think tank Tax Policy Associates — following Neidle’s public claims that Zahawi was providing unsatisfactory answers. The email also said Neidle was “not entitled to publish it or refer to it other than for the purposes of seeking legal advice”.

Something else to put Rayner's £40k into context!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2025 ==

Way fewer MPs, no FPTP, no lords, archaic theatrics discarded, modernised debating, better pay.

Just have one chap running it all. Works in North Korea.

 

[WesternLancer]

It should be the place for strategic management of the country

That's the role of government - not parliament. Surely. They should never be confused (esp not by the politicians!)

 

[sor]

Are you confusing Deputy Leader of the Labour Party with Deputy PM? - they are not the same thing. The PM could appoint a Deputy PM this afternoon I suspect, if desired.
But there have been plenty of times when there has been no Deputy PM - it's in fact probably more of a norm not to have Deputy PM.

Gordon Brown had no Deputy PM (and I don't think Mrs Thatcher did) and wikipedia says that no one held the post from 2015 after the coalition ended and Nick Clegg ceased being Deputy PM, to 2021

No. It sounds confusing but this is the Labour Party rule for replacing the deputy leader:

When the Party is in government and the
deputy leader, for whatever reason, becomes
permanently unavailable, the Cabinet may, in
consultation with the NEC, appoint one of its
members to serve as deputy leader until the
next Party conference. The Cabinet may
alternatively, in consultation with the NEC,
leave the post vacant until the next Party
conference.

You are right that Starmer has total control over who he wants in that cabinet however.

 

[WesternLancer]

No. It sounds confusing but this is the Labour Party rule for replacing the deputy leader:


You are right that Starmer has total control over who he wants in that cabinet however.

Thanks. Interesting to read! Appreciate you posting that

 

[Moonshot]

Alright. And to be honest I am quite thankful that I have nothing more to say. It's good not to have the government constantly in the headlines, and have them actually working "behind the scenes" as it were instead, though they've already had a lot to do. Solid and unspectacular - in other words, sensible politics.

The above was the second post on this thread last year!! So here we are today....same old nonsense we have endured for years.

 

[brad465]

The above was the second post on this thread last year!! So here we are today....same old nonsense we have endured for years.

I put this down to a combination of two things: firstly, this opinion of mine:

Genuinely good and competent people don't go into politics anymore (or if they do they don't go far or are corrupted). There are plenty of other professions that not only have comparable, if not better pay, but come with much lower levels of public visibility and responsibility. Throw in the negative attitude towards the profession in general, and good people don't see the attraction. This then leads to the only ones going for it being incompetent, naïve and/or power-hungry, which then reinforces the aforementioned attitudes, creating a negative feedback loop. This is why changing parties of government hasn't solved anything, and why someone like Reform won't improve either. The overarching problem is the whole political system, that goes above parties and politicians, needs overhauling.

Second, in our 24/7 news cycle world, journalists and reporters need to constantly find stuff to fill the news. This has I think influenced both politicians and journalists' behaviour in unhealthy ways. Journalists/reporters have turned to creating news more than reporting it, while certain politicians have said/done stuff more frequently and/or containing outlandish behaviour, just to make sure it's them being on the airwaves more often (Trump is the no.1 example of this, but it applies to many others too).

 

[Thirteen]

A competent politician isn't a good news story for journalists, that's the honest answer.

 

[J663738]

Well good riddance to Angela Rayner, she like telling other people what they were doing was wrong, but found it hard to accept that what she did was dishonest at best or stupid at worst. It does make Sir Kier look rather silly now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2025 ==

It is also being report that she will almost inevitably face a HMRC fine for not seeking the correct Tax advise. How on earth was she so brazen even up to yesterday, saying she did nothing wrong? Starmer needs to surround himself with people of a higher intellect IMHO.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Well good riddance to Angela Rayner, she like telling other people what they were doing was wrong, but found it hard to accept that what she did was dishonest at best or stupid at worst. It does make Sir Kier look rather silly now

I don’t think it makes Starmer look remotely stupid. He acted on events, an investigation was set up and delivered within a few days, and he acted decisively on the day the report landed

What do you think he should have done differently?

 

[BAFRA77]

I don’t think it makes Starmer look remotely stupid. He acted on events, an investigation was set up and delivered within a few days, and he acted decisively on the day the report landed

What do you think he should have done differently?

Give them a peerage like the Tories did with Priti Patel who didn’t get removed after being found to have broken the ministerial code for bullying AND then holding secret meetings with her mates in the Israeli Government?

 

[J663738]

I don’t think it makes Starmer look remotely stupid. He acted on events, an investigation was set up and delivered within a few days, and he acted decisively on the day the report landed

What do you think he should have done differently?

Maybe have asked Angela when the story first broke (over a week ago), did you get proper tax advice on this transaction and after her last housing issue, get someone to check over it as well. Starmer always seem to me at least to be constantly behind the curve.
Instead he spent the time saying she had done nothing wrong, without it appears even asking, he's meant to be a lawyer?

 

[Thirteen]

Lammy going from Foreign Secretary to Justice Secretary seems like a demotion even with getting the Deputy PM job but TBH it does seem odd Justice, Foreign and Home Secretaries are essentially swapping positions.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Maybe have asked Angela when the story first broke (over a week ago), did you get proper tax advice on this transaction and after her last housing issue, get someone to check over it as well. Starmer always seem to me at least to be constantly behind the curve.
Instead he spent the time saying she had done nothing wrong, without it appears even asking, he's meant to be a lawyer?

That isn't how it works. The Prime Minister doesn't spend his time carrying out inquisitions. He gets an independent investigator to look into it and report, and then deals with what the report says. That's what he did.

 

[Purple Train]

The above was the second post on this thread last year!! So here we are today....same old nonsense we have endured for years.

I'm not pleased, put it that way. I expected more from a Labour government, and I expected a cleaner break from the tired old tropes that have been left to poison public discourse for so long. But I still firmly believe it's far better than the viable alternatives. Under the Conservatives, this would have dragged on for weeks and weeks and possibly not even resulted in a resignation - this is comparatively small-fry, as has been mentioned upthread, when compared to the antics of Zahawi, Jenrick, and Patel. Reform have been fighting like rats in a sack and that's only with four or five MPs at any one time. I can't really speak for the Lib Dems as they've had about as much mainstream airtime as I have.

Like I said, I'm no fan of the government. But it is by no means "same old, same old".

 

[Falcon1200]

What do you think he should have done differently?

Starmer, and Rayner, should have done what they would have demanded, and probably have demanded, of any opposition politician in a similar situation; She should have resigned as soon as she knew what had happened, and when she did not Starmer should have sacked her.

 

[brad465]

Here's a summary of the reshuffle:

https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1964001102690439499?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1964001102690439499%7Ctwgr%5Ea5b56ea8af60fc56bae26aaf376281746e12ba88%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.deathlist.net%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Falexwickham%2Fstatus%2F1964001102690439499%3Fs%3D61

Here’s the reshuffle The King has been pleased to approve the following appointments:

•Rt Hon David Lammy MP as Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice. He will also be Deputy Prime Minister
•Rt Hon Darren Jones MP as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. He will remain Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister
•Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP as Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs
•Rt Hon Shabana Mahmood MP as Secretary of State for the Home Department
•Rt Hon Steve Reed OBE MP as Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government
•Rt Hon Pat McFadden MP as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions
•Rt Hon Peter Kyle MP as Secretary of State for Business and Trade and President of the Board of Trade
•Rt Hon Liz Kendall MP as Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology
•Emma Reynolds MP as Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
•Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP as Secretary of State for Scotland
•Rt Hon Jonathan Reynolds MP as Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Chief Whip). He is a member of Cabinet
•Rt Hon Sir Alan Campbell MP as Lord President of the Council, and Leader of the House of Commons. He will attend Cabinet

Rt Hon Angela Rayner MP, Rt Hon Lucy Powell MP and Rt Hon Ian Murray MP have left the Government.

Too early to say how effective they'll all be I think individually, however, all government business is effectively on hold while the new ministers are briefed on their new posts, so that's a negative irrespective of the performance of those involved.

 

[DustyBin]

Starmer, and Rayner, should have done what they would have demanded, and probably have demanded, of any opposition politician in a similar situation; She should have resigned as soon as she knew what had happened, and when she did not Starmer should have sacked her.

Exactly.