Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[grdc]

That doesn’t mean anything as TPE have been using 6 cars on this route for years, Can it take 6 cars with all doors on the platform?

Despite the mention somewhere upthread of the platforms being lengthened as part of the TPRU, the answer seems to be no.

Whilst I wasn't on an the train in question, I was in Manchester Victoria this afternoon and heard the automated announcement about a TPE service due to leave. 11:59 to Redcar, doubled Class 185.

It listed various stations where you had to be in the front X amount of carriages. Brighouse was definitely mentioned, but I can't remember what number of carriages it said. If I were to guess, I'd say most likely five. Both Hebden and Sowerby Bridges were also on the announcement as having carriage conditions.

Pretty sure Grand Centrals 5-car Adelantes fit into Brighouse without selective door opening.

 

[M60lad]

During the Huddersfield blockade is there a reason why Piccadilly-Stalybridge shuttle is a 6 car 185? Surely 6 car is a bit overkill considering how many people are going to use the service unless I'm wrong.

If Huddersfield Station itself (The building) is fully closed where are passengers meant to buy tickets from? Mind you with all services being Replacements I suppose its just a case of jump on a bus/coach to wherever your going knowing there probably won't be a check although some drivers and some Co-Ordinators do check passengers have got tickets.

 

[Paul AC]

During the Huddersfield blockade is there a reason why Piccadilly-Stalybridge shuttle is a 6 car 185? Surely 6 car is a bit overkill considering how many people are going to use the service unless I'm wrong.

It's been the same on previous occasions during TRU when Piccadilly - Stalybridge shuttles have run.

In a sane world / railway system it would be some form of electric multiple unit, as the route is fully wired.

 

[Geeves]

It's been the same on previous occasions during TRU when Piccadilly - Stalybridge shuttles have run.

In a sane world / railway system it would be some form of electric multiple unit, as the route is fully wired.

It might just be a weekend thing but certainly during the week on previous closures it's been an 800 as you'd hope with the wires up!

 

[Paul AC]

It might just be a weekend thing but certainly during the week on previous closures it's been an 800 as you'd hope with the wires up!

When the service has been Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Victoria- Stalybridge (*) yes it's been an 802, but not Piccadilly - Stalybridge direct. Or, if it has been, I didn't know about it and so I am very annoyed! If you're sure they have run direct, please advise any dates when they have done so.

(*) and due to daftness of the design of the Automatic Power Changeover (APCO) system, the 802s switch to diesel mode as they pass Clayton Bridge between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, and back again to electric mode on the return. You might have thought that this possibility would have been considered. Same when they run Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Victoria- Stalybridge.

 

[Andyh82]

During the Huddersfield blockade is there a reason why Piccadilly-Stalybridge shuttle is a 6 car 185? Surely 6 car is a bit overkill considering how many people are going to use the service unless I'm wrong.

If Huddersfield Station itself (The building) is fully closed where are passengers meant to buy tickets from? Mind you with all services being Replacements I suppose its just a case of jump on a bus/coach to wherever your going knowing there probably won't be a check although some drivers and some Co-Ordinators do check passengers have got tickets.

Presumably they have enough stock to run everything across the network as 5 or 6 car?

Also they might be expecting a lot of passengers. There are 4 rail replacements an hour that terminate at Stalybridge (2 all stations, 2 fast) so maybe they expect a lot of people to go that way?

In terms of Huddersfield station, the ticket office is still open, it was also advertised as being a waiting room, as like I said yesterday, if it’s raining there is barely any shelter outside. Also I think Northern train crew are still booking on there as normal

 

[Class 170101]

That doesn’t mean anything as TPE have been using 6 cars on this route for years, Can it take 6 cars with all doors on the platform?

118 and 119 metres according to 2025 Train Planning Rules. So Unlikely

 

[D6130]

In terms of Huddersfield station, the ticket office is still open, it was also advertised as being a waiting room, as like I said yesterday, if it’s raining there is barely any shelter outside. Also I think Northern train crew are still booking on there as normal

If the ticket office and waiting room - plus the train crew signing-on point and mess room - are still open, why have the two pubs had to close for the duration of the works? For some years - ever since the introduction of ticket barriers - they have only been accessible from the street side (other than emergency egress onto the platform).

 

[Spartacus]

If the ticket office and waiting room - plus the train crew signing-on point and mess room - are still open, why have the two pubs had to close for the duration of the works? For some years - ever since the introduction of ticket barriers - they have only been accessible from the street side (other than emergency egress onto the platform).

I wonder if they're on utilities from the railway side which might need to be cut while the central area isn't, or something to that effect? I know the Head of Steam end was only converted in the mid-90s after being derelict for some time.

 

[YorksLad12]

If the ticket office and waiting room - plus the train crew signing-on point and mess room - are still open, why have the two pubs had to close for the duration of the works? For some years - ever since the introduction of ticket barriers - they have only been accessible from the street side (other than emergency egress onto the platform).

I'd imagine they wouldn't nice places to go for a drink while work is taking place, but I suspect it's more to do with keeping people (especially inebriated ones) as far away from the work area as possible. Both pubs seem to be taking the closure on the chin (I mean, they're tenants so...) than the taxi drivers representatives were.

Agree with what others have said about the replacement coach arrangements, but they've always been poor since the square was redeveloped. There's a stop at the bottom of the square that used to be used by the FreeTownBus which could be used as a dedicated stop, rather than getting people to mix it with normal bus stops and services.

Slightly off-topic, but why could the old-old P2 at Huddersfield not be reopened (it would be P0 in the future, I guess) for Penistone Line services? Too short?

 

[Class 170101]

If the ticket office and waiting room - plus the train crew signing-on point and mess room - are still open, why have the two pubs had to close for the duration of the works? For some years - ever since the introduction of ticket barriers - they have only been accessible from the street side (other than emergency egress onto the platform).

I imagine the 'lack' of emergency egress during the works is why they are closed. As the egress would be directly onto a building site. So a Health a Safety Requirement I reckon.

 

[Earle Grey]

Whilst all the attention has been focussed on the Dewsbury to Huddersfield section, some track alteration has taken place at Cross Gates. The crossover, which had been stored between the running lines at Cross Gates station, has been installed about a quarter of a mile to the west of the station although it is not in use yet.

Nope I posted about it back in June (page 312/#9340). Tractor37 is quite correct the facing crossover is to a Limit of Shunt on the Down, to turn sets round and back towards Micklefield.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ification-updates.88054/page-312#post-7349763

 

[LittleAH]

I always think the replacement bus arrangements at Huddersfield could be better

People just hang around randomly outside the station and then occasionally a bus pulls up and a member of staff shouts out where it is going.

There are no departure boards outside so unless you are using an app, passengers don’t know when the buses are due

There is are no shelters except for the normal bus shelters. None of those marquees, queuing systems, extra toilets or coffee carts that they did when there was that major closure down south a few years back that I remember reading about.

There’s a waiting area inside the station with the CIS.

Kirklees council are charging a lot of money for anything being on the square including toilets.

There’s plenty of local businesses to get a drink in stones throw of the station.

 

[skyhigh]

Both pubs seem to be taking the closure on the chin (I mean, they're tenants so...)

I assume they are getting some form of compensation for the closure.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It's been the same on previous occasions during TRU when Piccadilly - Stalybridge shuttles have run.

In a sane world / railway system it would be some form of electric multiple unit, as the route is fully wired.

Is it wired and live from Guide Bridge to Stalyvegas?

 

[Paul AC]

Is it wired and live from Guide Bridge to Stalyvegas?

Yes, and as far as I know it was approved for use at the same time as Victoria - Stalybridge. Except for the EMU test trains it has seen no electric traffic, as far as I know.

 

[superkev]

Nope I posted about it back in June (page 312/#9340). Tractor37 is quite correct the facing crossover is to a Limit of Shunt on the Down, to turn sets round and back towards Micklefield.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ification-updates.88054/page-312#post-7349763

This month's Modern Railways mentioned the crossover will ultimately be recovered presumably after tpu is complete.
K

 

[Fokx]

I see that Brighouse station has got a new lick of paint, all in Metro red, with a complete set of new signage in Have the platforms been extended? Can Brighouse take a 2x185 six car formation?

Yes all Calder Valley stations are fitted with C-ASDO beacons, locking out carriages automatically that aren't accomodated.

That doesn’t mean anything as TPE have been using 6 cars on this route for years, Can it take 6 cars with all doors on the platform?

Fits 5 carriages. However depending on which way round first class is located on the rear set, 4 will open instead.

On TPE Class 802 all doors will open except for the extreme rear for Brighouse

When the service has been Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Victoria- Stalybridge (*) yes it's been an 802, but not Piccadilly - Stalybridge direct. Or, if it has been, I didn't know about it and so I am very annoyed! If you're sure they have run direct, please advise any dates when they have done so.

Class 802 have NEVER ran the direct non-stop Manchester Piccadilly to Stalybridge due to crewing arrangements and also due to the fact they aren't stabled in the Manchester area.

As you say they have however ran the Airport to Stalybridge service which interworked with the Stalybridge to Liverpool service utilising Liverpool/Piccadilly crew (Hull link drivers) and units from Edge Hill which start and end at Liverpool.

 

[David Bullock]

Yes, and as far as I know it was approved for use at the same time as Victoria - Stalybridge. Except for the EMU test trains it has seen no electric traffic, as far as I know.

I think 769s run on electric all the way

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think 769s run on electric all the way

769s don't run through Guide Bridge though.

 

[Paul AC]

I think 769s run on electric all the way

They do indeed, between Victoria and Stalybridge (so can do things 802s can't). I think we've been slightly let down by the quoting, but I'll reiterate for clarity that there have been no passenger electric workings between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge.

 

[Grumpy]

but I'll reiterate for clarity that there have been no passenger electric workings between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge.

So more money wasted?

 

[LittleAH]

So more money wasted?

How is it? TPE are in the middle of procuring new trains.

 

[YorkshireBear]

So more money wasted?

Considering the whole of Manchester to York is being wired, and trains on that route travel this way and it can't all be wired at the same time no it isn't a waste of money.

In fact it saves money. As waiting to electrify it with Stalybridge to Huddersfield would have meant the section cost more (due to inflation).

 

[Traf73]

Can I check what you mean?

That there is a spare span in the Canal bridge that had to be replaced even though it will not be used?

That's right. There are two new Spans to carry the new running lines and an additional narrow bridge which can be seen at the beginning of the video in the right of the compound.

 

[buz33]

The long narrow bridge can be seen lifted in right at the very end of the video.

 

[edwin_m]

So more money wasted?

Even if it's never used, the wiring to Guide Bridge has the potential benefit of providing an alternative way of feeding power from the newish Heyrod feeder into the Glossop and connected routes in south Manchester. I can't say if this is actually done though.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So more money wasted?

It's not wasted, it's just not in use yet.
Once it's all complete I believe the plan is for Northern to run EMUs to replace the currently Class 185 stoppers

 

[grdc]

It's not wasted, it's just not in use yet.
Once it's all complete I believe the plan is for Northern to run EMUs to replace the currently Class 185 stoppers

On a related note. As of Saturday gone, Northern have fully taken over the Leeds - Huddersfield stopper from TPE.

Presume they will find another pair of class 150s from somewhere to cover for the next few years until the electrification is complete.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Latest Sarah Bell YouTube shows track lifted in Huddersfield station.