195s on the Cumbrian Coast

[Soft Hands]

Presume the plan is to use 3-car sets, with SDO for the platforms where three cars won't fit, as opposed to borrowing 2-car sets off other diagrams? Do Workington crews all already sign 195's?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Do Workington crews all already sign 195's?

None of them do yet I don’t think.

 

[Starmill]

Presume the plan is to use 3-car sets, with SDO for the platforms where three cars won't fit, as opposed to borrowing 2-car sets off other diagrams? Do Workington crews all already sign 195's?

Workington can't learn 195s in time. But in any case, there wouldn't be any point for a limited Barrow-in-Furness - Sellafield - Corkickle service, as it'd be too difficult for them to get to anywhere they can pick up the train.

There are no two cars available except on Sundays. However there are also barely any three cars available, so to work some to Sellafield or beyond would require some trains to Manchester to be cut to three car.

 

[Soft Hands]

Workington can't learn 195s in time. But in any case, there wouldn't be any point for a limited Barrow-in-Furness - Sellafield - Corkickle service, as it'd be too difficult for them to get to anywhere they can pick up the train.

There are no two cars available except on Sundays. However there are also barely any three cars available, so to work some to Sellafield or beyond would require some trains to Manchester to be cut to three car.

3-Car 195 NH703 diagram "ends" at Barrow 15.05hrs, so that set can be used for an afternoon and an evening trip if needed? Other than that I can only see that reverting NH722 to NH724 inclusive (mainly Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Central stoppers) back to 156's would free some sets up. At the moment NH are having to maintain an extra five HT 156's "trapped" by Bransty Tunnel closure. As one diagram ends at Preston and then starts there again on the following morning, this can be done fairly easily it appears so far.

 

[Pinus contorta]

3-Car 195 NH703 diagram "ends" at Barrow 15.05hrs, so that set can be used for an afternoon and an evening trip if needed? Other than that I can only see that reverting NH722 to NH724 inclusive (mainly Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Central stoppers) back to 156's would free some sets up. At the moment NH are having to maintain an extra five HT 156's "trapped" by Bransty Tunnel closure. As one diagram ends at Preston and then starts there again on the following morning, this can be done fairly easily it appears so far.

The Preston late night is the only one that does seem easily interchangeable. Nothing can run down during the daytime as its limited to 75 not 100

Its easy to spot the 'foreign' 156 units on the runs to Sellafield now as they have the loo at the opposite end to normal.

 

[thenorthern]

It will be interesting to see if using Class 195s on the line will be something that will continue in the future. The Class 156s currently in use are approaching 40 years old and aren't going to last forever so Northern/Great British Railways will need a replacement in the future.

I suppose the main reason that the line hasn't been altered to take anything other than Class 156s is because it's a very rural quiet route which does not get many passengers to justify the cost. Also the lack of demand means there is no incentive to improve clearances.

 

[godfreycomplex]

I suppose the main reason that the line hasn't been altered to take anything other than Class 156s is because it's a very rural quiet route which does not get many passengers to justify the cost. Also the lack of demand means there is no incentive to improve clearances.

Not even so much that, it’s two fold really

A - 156s are generally very solid and reliable units that are easy to run and easy to fix, therefore ideal for runs such as this where they can be away from their main maintenance depot for days at a time whilst doing long runs by the sea. Whilst nowhere near as quiet as its reputation the coast isn’t exactly the Castlefield corridor either, as you say.

B - 75mph max speed. Causes no issues on the Cumbrian Coast, would leave them with no chance whatsoever of keeping time on Windermere/Blackpool - York/Leeds - Nottingham/any other route they would have gone on to release 195s (or anything else) for the coast.

 

[Zooty]

3-Car 195 NH703 diagram "ends" at Barrow 15.05hrs, so that set can be used for an afternoon and an evening trip if needed? Other than that I can only see that reverting NH722 to NH724 inclusive (mainly Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Central stoppers) back to 156's would free some sets up. At the moment NH are having to maintain an extra five HT 156's "trapped" by Bransty Tunnel closure. As one diagram ends at Preston and then starts there again on the following morning, this can be done fairly easily it appears so far.

I presume the whole reason for using 195s is so NH don't have to maintain an extra five 156s. Swapping 156s for 195s on other routes doesn't get them anywhere. Far easier just to leave the 156s on the coast.

One of the quotes I saw from Northern mentioned "flexing the fleet" so I wonder if we'll see shortening of some 195 services to release units, e.g. 6-car becomes 4 or 5, etc. 2-car is all that is needed for the coast but 3-car may be easier to do.

The Preston late night is the only one that does seem easily interchangeable. Nothing can run down during the daytime as its limited to 75 not 100

One unit starts early doors ECS to Lancaster for the Morecambe shuttle. Likewise, a different unit ends the day on the Morecambes and ECS to Barrow. If drivers where available then they could run from/to the south instead.

 

[Starmill]

3-Car 195 NH703 diagram "ends" at Barrow 15.05hrs, so that set can be used for an afternoon and an evening trip if needed? Other than that I can only see that reverting NH722 to NH724 inclusive (mainly Liverpool Lime Street to Warrington Central stoppers) back to 156's would free some sets up. At the moment NH are having to maintain an extra five HT 156's "trapped" by Bransty Tunnel closure. As one diagram ends at Preston and then starts there again on the following morning, this can be done fairly easily it appears so far.

Yes. Roughly speaking you can use that one in the afternoon, so you need to find two before then and one after then to run a half useful service. To give an extension beyond Sellafield to Corkickle it may need one more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2025 ==

I presume the whole reason for using 195s is so NH don't have to maintain an extra five 156s. Swapping 156s for 195s on other routes doesn't get them anywhere. Far easier just to leave the 156s on the coast.

One of the quotes I saw from Northern mentioned "flexing the fleet" so I wonder if we'll see shortening of some 195 services to release units, e.g. 6-car becomes 4 or 5, etc. 2-car is all that is needed for the coast but 3-car may be easier to do.


One unit starts early doors ECS to Lancaster for the Morecambe shuttle. Likewise, a different unit ends the day on the Morecambes and ECS to Barrow. If drivers where available then they could run from/to the south instead.

Yes. Greek Street means availability is a little easier to come by out of Newton Heath at present with fewer units working on their Buxton and Chester (etc) diagrams.

 

[Bow Fell]

Workington can't learn 195s in time. But in any case, there wouldn't be any point for a limited Barrow-in-Furness - Sellafield - Corkickle service, as it'd be too difficult for them to get to anywhere they can pick up the train.

There are no two cars available except on Sundays. However there are also barely any three cars available, so to work some to Sellafield or beyond would require some trains to Manchester to be cut to three car.

Workington have never really needed to learn 195’s anyway, and like you say no point for this period of time.

They have always had very little Lancaster-Barrow work, and with 195’s now being the mainstay with the odd 156 between Lancaster and Barrow they only have 2 jobs to Lancaster off the top of my head and most of that work is done by Wigan / Barrow and Blackpool (ex-TPE).

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes. Roughly speaking you can use that one in the afternoon, so you need to find two before then and one after then to run a half useful service. To give an extension beyond Sellafield to Corkickle it may need one more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2025 ==


Yes. Greek Street means availability is a little easier to come by out of Newton Heath at present with fewer units working on their Buxton and Chester (etc) diagrams.

How many extra units does the split service require? Is there normally any booked 156 work between Lancaster and Preston? If not, I can see why cycling the units to Newton Heath would be challenging.

 

[Pinus contorta]

How many extra units does the split service require? Is there normally any booked 156 work between Lancaster and Preston? If not, I can see why cycling the units to Newton Heath would be challenging.

There are some lengthy gaps in the current Barrow to Sellafield timetable in the am pm peaks. I assume thats due to the number of 'extra' units they cant suddenly magic up. Is it the same up at Workington? Are they one down?

I think its only the one booked 156 working ( in the full timetable) left Carlisle at 1909 that ends in Preston at 2320 or something.

 

[Bikeman78]

There are some lengthy gaps in the current Barrow to Sellafield timetable in the am pm peaks. I assume thats due to the number of 'extra' units they cant suddenly magic up. Is it the same up at Workington? Are they one down?

I think its only the one booked 156 working ( in the full timetable) left Carlisle at 1909 that ends in Preston at 2320 or something.

Looking at RTT, the Morecambe shuttle starts in Barrow-in-Furness. 5C70 normally runs to Barrow in the evening but is currently amended to run to Preston. That is one way to cycle a 156 off the Cumbrian towards Manchester. Signing off 195s to Sellafield will help control by giving them options during the closure.

 

[thenorthern]

Just seen this from the local MP

Cumbria Coast Line update - some good news, some bad news

Bad news first - it will be 1st September, not 25th August, when trains will run to Corkickle from the south. Northern say they need more time to get the new Class 195 trains that are being used on the line ready.

Good news - the trains will stop at Nethertown and Braystones aswell from 1st September. I've been pressing them hard on this and welcome this development.

More good news - I asked them to sort out the issue with advance tickets being stopped which has seen ticket prices shoot up. That has now been done and from today you'll be able to purchase advance tickets again

Josh MacAlister MP

Cumbria Coast Line update - some good news, some bad news Bad news first - it will be 1st September, not 25th August, when trains will run to Corkickle from the south. Northern say they need...

www.facebook.com

Looks like trains to Corkickle will start on the 1st of September now and they will indeed call at Braystones and Nethertown.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Just seen this from the local MP


Looks like trains to Corkickle will start on the 1st of September now and they will indeed call at Braystones and Nethertown.

Do they need to move or adjust the humps at these locations? I know from looking out of the window the platforms are quite short but dont know how high they are.

 

[thenorthern]

Do they need to move or adjust the humps at these locations? I know from looking out of the window the platforms are quite short but dont know how high they are.

I don't think the humps themselves will need adjusting, however, the stopping markers will need to be adjusted to fit in with the hump. Given the coaches of the 195s are longer than the 156s and given the 195s operate as 3 coach units they will be sticking out the platform and over the barrow crossing at Nethertown.

 

[themiller]

I don't think the humps themselves will need adjusting, however, the stopping markers will need to be adjusted to fit in with the hump. Given the coaches of the 195s are longer than the 156s and given the 195s operate as 3 coach units they will be sticking out the platform and over the barrow crossing at Nethertown.

Given that Silecroft station down platform was extended by 2 metres for the 2-car 156s, a 3-car 195 would need to use either one car locked out or only enable one door as happened at Roose!

 

[Soft Hands]

Three of the five "trapped" Heaton 156's returned to the North East yesterday. 195116 is out today in passenger service. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S02892/2025-08-24/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Class 170101]

Carlisle is an “eastern depot” from the old Arriva franchise and sign neither the coast or WCML.

In that case who covers these services? Workington via a Taxi? night turn? Something else?

Realtime Trains | 2C38 0553 Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness | 12/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 2C38 0553 departure from Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness on 12/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

and

Realtime Trains | 2C40 0619 Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness | 12/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 2C40 0619 departure from Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness on 12/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Starmill]

Taxi from Workington.

 

[thenorthern]

Given that Silecroft station down platform was extended by 2 metres for the 2-car 156s, a 3-car 195 would need to use either one car locked out or only enable one door as happened at Roose!

It won't be the only station that will have selective door opening, I didn't realise how short the down platform at Sellafield is.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Why all the random platform lengths and heights on a route where stations would have been built largely at the same time and had common passenger stock types even from steam times!

 

[themiller]

It won't be the only station that will have selective door opening, I didn't realise how short the down platform at Sellafield is.

No, I was only using Silecroft as an example because it’s been a while since I did the whole route. I now live near Dalston station now having moved from close to Silecroft.

 

[thenorthern]

Why all the random platform lengths and heights on a route where stations would have been built largely at the same time and had common passenger stock types even from steam times!

It wasn't all built by one company that was the problem.

It was a mixture of Furness railway, Whitehaven and Furness Junction Railway, Whitehaven Junction Railway, London and North Western Railway and the Maryport and Carlisle railway. The Cumbrian Coast line as we know it didn't really exist until the 1960s when the branch lines coming off it all closed and the through trains started to appear.

 

[robvulpes]

Definitely a 3-car 195 approaching Ravenglass this afternoon. Mixture with 156s at the moment.

 

[thenorthern]

The times are now listed on RTT for the new services to Corkickle.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Corkickle all day on 01/09/2025

Train information at Corkickle all day on 01/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Class 170101]

1C90 and by consequence 2T32 definitely a Class 195 but no clues for others

 

[ahooper99]

There have been stop boards bagged over for a while. The abrupt closure of the tunnel has probably accelerated the need to get things up and running with the 195s. Not leadt as they can be inter worked for exams with the other units arriving at Barrow from Manchester more easily than the 156s.

Yes I’ve noticed how the class 195 is running from barrow to sellafield and from Tommoro barrow to corkickle. Once the tunnel reopens hopefully it can continue onto Carlisle but there still lays the bridge problems after Maryport although I’m sure the width on the class 195 is slightly smaller than the 156 and when the Barrow-Lancaster line was closed they diverted 195s along the coastal line

 

[Starmill]

Yes I’ve noticed how the class 195 is running from barrow to sellafield and from Tommoro barrow to corkickle. Once the tunnel reopens hopefully it can continue onto Carlisle but there still lays the bridge problems after Maryport although I’m sure the width on the class 195 is slightly smaller than the 156 and when the Barrow-Lancaster line was closed they diverted 195s along the coastal line

They won't be able to go to Carlisle. Workington don't sign them. In any case they are needed elsewhere.

 

[Lucy1501]

Yes I’ve noticed how the class 195 is running from barrow to sellafield and from Tommoro barrow to corkickle. Once the tunnel reopens hopefully it can continue onto Carlisle but there still lays the bridge problems after Maryport although I’m sure the width on the class 195 is slightly smaller than the 156 and when the Barrow-Lancaster line was closed they diverted 195s along the coastal line

They’re not allowed to run North of Maryport without the other line being blocked due to clearance issues iirc.