Wigan Disruption 20/8/25

[Efini92]

A fascinating video from Ben Elias shows him driving through this section during the disruption. In this, he explains the procedure in detail. Highly recommended.

Shame he didn’t challenge the signaller on why he needs to ignore WN116, it’s no applicable to him.

 

[800001]

Brilliant video, and nice to see it from the other side!

I hope this highlights, the absolute requirement for clear safety critical communication and why NR / TOC’s thin the service is such circumstances due to the length of time these things can take. The workload and pressure on the signaller is unimaginable and imagine having to go through this procedure without a reduced service! It’s not just talking past signals or the authorisation of emergency special working but imagine doing that and giving line blockages to the S&T and dealing with anything else on the panel at the same time!

Fully agree!

Also to add how it mentally must affect the drivers, being told to disregard all those signals at red and to keep going......going against everything which is 'normal' to you.

 

[Vexed]

Great to see the video!

Shame he didn’t challenge the signaller on why he needs to ignore WN116, it’s no applicable to him.

I have no idea on what rules actually are, but to a lay person could it make sense as without a yellow/green aspect that is explicitly to the next main aspect signal a GPL could apply? Or at the very least to avoid any confusion for the driver counting signals/reading the faceplates against what's written on the ticket if a signal is "missed".

 

[800001]

Shame he didn’t challenge the signaller on why he needs to ignore WN116, it’s no applicable to him.

Because the signaller is telling the driver to ignore all signal aspects including GPL between signal A and signal B.

It will be same message being repeated to all drivers. Keeps it consistent.

I'm sure if driver felt the need to 'question', not challenge, then I'm sure the driver would, and I'm sure the signaller would happily answer.

 

[Efini92]

Great to see the video!


I have no idea on what rules actually are, but to a lay person could it make sense as without a yellow/green aspect that is explicitly to the next main aspect signal a GPL could apply? Or at the very least to avoid any confusion for the driver counting signals/reading the faceplates against what's written on the ticket if a signal is "missed".

The driver wouldn’t see the signal, it’s for reversing movements over bamfurlong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==

Because the signaller is telling the driver to ignore all signal aspects including GPL between signal A and signal B.

It will be same message being repeated to all drivers. Keeps it consistent.

I'm sure if driver felt the need to 'question', not challenge, then I'm sure the driver would, and I'm sure the signaller would happily answer.

The GPL is in the down direction not the up direction.
Challenging something is questioning something.

 

[Vexed]

The driver wouldn’t see the signal, it’s for reversing movements over bamfurlong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2025 ==


The GPL is in the down direction not the up direction.
Challenging something is questioning something.

Yes I see what you mean looking at a signal map. Pretty pointless to include then!


Screenshot of SimSig's signal number plan of the area showing 116 as facing Down when the train in the video was travelling up


Same screenshot from Open Train Times maps

 

[AndrewE]

The BBC are being quite unfair in showing the headline

Major train delays due to signalling fault

and hardly any coverage on https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy5ge5vvy2o Now that they have people in Salford Quays I would have thought that they would have taken a bit more interest.

 

[QueensCurve]

Shame he didn’t challenge the signaller on why he needs to ignore WN116, it’s no applicable to him.

I was a bit surprised to see the signal clear at the end to flashing double yellow. To which turnout does this relate? To Up Slow at Winwick Junction?

 

[Halwynd]

I think that’s just a data issue because of the signalling. There was nothing on the curve this morning.

Aye, you were right - the data updated itself a day later. MkI eyeball is best!

 

[Freightmaster]

I was a bit surprised to see the signal clear at the end to flashing double yellow. To which turnout does this relate? To Up Slow at Winwick Junction?

I think it relates to leaving the WCML at Golborne Junction to Lowton Junction and then on to Parkside Junction?



MARK

 

[Efini92]

I was a bit surprised to see the signal clear at the end to flashing double yellow. To which turnout does this relate? To Up Slow at Winwick Junction?

Yeah that’s correct.

Aye, you were right - the data updated itself a day later. MkI eyeball is best!

That quote reminds me of Martin Brundle, I’m sure we’ll hear that again next weekend at Zandvoort

It relates to leaving the WCML at Golborne Junction to Lowton Junction and then on to Parkside Junction in this case.



MARK

There’s no flashing yellows for Golborne in the Up direction. It’s approach release.

 

[800001]

Yeah that’s correct.

That quote reminds me of Martin Brundle, I’m sure we’ll hear that again next weekend at Zandvoort

There’s no flashing yellows for Golborne in the Up direction. It’s approach release.

So what's the flashing double amber for then?

 

[Efini92]

So what's the flashing double amber for then?

Route set for the up slow at winwick

 

[bengley]

Shame he didn’t challenge the signaller on why he needs to ignore WN116, it’s no applicable to him.

I didn't challenge it because it's not necessary. It would have simply prolonged and confused matters. The end result would have been exactly the same. After all, being told to ignore something I can't see and which doesn't apply to me is hardly doing any harm!

 

[Efini92]

I didn't challenge it because it's not necessary. It would have simply prolonged and confused matters. The end result would have been exactly the same. After all, being told to ignore something I can't see and which doesn't apply to me is hardly doing any harm!

I’d argue the opposite. By having an extra signal number on that page it could lead to a spad.
There was an incident last year in the West Midlands where a signal at the end of ESW was passed at danger twice.

 

[bengley]

I’d argue the opposite. By having an extra signal number on that page it could lead to a spad.
There was an incident last year in the West Midlands where a signal at the end of ESW was passed at danger twice.

Luckily the exit signal has to be in an easily identifiable location and in this case it was very easy to identify. This is why route knowledge is important.

I do take your point though, if the incorrectly added GPL was the last signal before the exit signal it could lead a driver into passing the exit signal without authority if they are relying entirely on the ticket to count down the signals to the end of the section.

 

[43096]

So what's the flashing double amber for then?

Double Amber? It's yellow on the railway!

 

[800001]

Double Amber? It's yellow on the railway!

You know exactly what I mean!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2025 ==

Route set for the up slow at winwick

Thank you. Not familiar with that area.

 

[QueensCurve]

Route set for the up slow at winwick

Thank you for that. I may have overestimated the distance between Golborne and Winwick.

 

[Freightmaster]

Thank you for that. I may have overestimated the distance between Golborne and Winwick.

Likewise!