List of First Class on all TOC's - from best to worst

[All Line Rover]

The EC First Class lounge at Kings Cross is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!! Any place with an ample supply on Bronte biscuits, Coca Cola and ice gets top marks in my book!

And it's only temporary! It is already huge (airport style) and I was told that the new one - opening by 2012 - will be EVEN BIGGER!!!

I wouldn't mind if Advance ticket holders are permitted entry - the lounge was very quiet when I went and could accomodate many more people.

Virgin could learn a thing or two (probably about 10 things) from East Coast about how to improve their Euston lounge - which is pretty horrible, hot and always overcrowded because it is so small.

EC's KGX lounge - and a rant about how horrible Virgin's EUS lounge is - deserves a thread of it's own, and will soon be getting one!

 

[TEW]

The breakfast is far superior to anything offered by FHT, XC and FGW.

The light bite meals are also excellent and priced well.

I'd say EMT's Breakfast offer is on a level with FGW's Travelling Chef breakfast. (Assuming you only look at FC, in Standard FGW winds hands down as they offer freshly cooked hot food in Standard.)

 

[Jonny]

They use Class 90s & MK3s

Which is effectively a HST - it feels like one - or more precisely an electric HST.

 

[MCR247]

No, not really, but you can think of it that way if you wish

 

[amcluesent]

>EC's KGX lounge - and a rant about how horrible Virgin's EUS lounge...<

Not that different IMHO!

VT -

has the free showers and towels they give out
loads more desks to sit at to use a laptop
Separate 'quiet zone'
Phone recharge bar - or did I imagine that?

EC -

Often less frenetic than VT lounge
Possibly better complementaries
shuts earlier on a Sunday than VT IIRC

I've been sitting at one of the four 'desks' at the end of the EC lounge and pax have come up asking about the trains!

 

[Failed Unit]

The trouble is this thread is so subjective,

Look at East Coast and the debate that we have about the new offering, people on longer journeys say it has got worse and will probably fly instead people on the shorter journeys think it is better. Are we judging it on the freebies?

Are we judging this on the level of service offered, if we are it could depend on when we are travelling. The Weekend offer on FGW / Virgin is much different to the weekday offering, if you only travel at weekends your viewpoint will alter. Likewise on Scotrail in the day you get a trolley if you are on the rear set so you could think this is wonderful, but if you are on the front set or travelling after 2000 when you get nothing but a different seat you may not be impressed.

Then of course you could be judging on the quality of the accomodation, FGW, AXC and East Coast should in this case be rated the same as the seats are the same (I think they also use that seat in Scotrail first class). However I think the biggest difference within the same operator is NXEA. If you get a 317/7 You get a very nice first class seat, in the 317/6 It is OK a noticable improvement on the standard. If you are unlucky enough to be on an 317/5 or 317/8 it is just an IC70 seat, in fact standard of the 317/6 & 7's are better than the first on the 317/5. Many operators use the same seat as is already pointed out so off peak when seats are plentiful why pay the premium?

This is one of the threads we need to be clear about our criteria. For me I won't penalise an operator for charging for food. Before May I would have rated East Coast higher than Virgin for example as they offered a better package, now east coast have downgraded first it is hard to tell (and yes I do fly more as a result)

 

[DarloRich]

What is it with first class on this site? I wonder how many of those commenting on this thread are travelling on a priv , on a child discount, or on YP/Oldie discount?

I dont get any of these. I travel second class. (unless on the rare occasion FC is cheaper than CC) Perhaps a comparison of second class would be of more benefit to most of us who have to actually pay full price for our tickets.

I dont care what first class is like, i dont care what you get free (key word there!) in first class or what the seats are like or what the carpet is like. FFS most of us go in cattle and it is a treat if i go FC!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

On my BB yesterday afternoon, half of the threads on the front page related in some way or another to First Class...

 

[Failed Unit]

I dont care what first class is like, i dont care what you get free (key word there!) in first class or what the seats are like or what the carpet is like. FFS most of us go in cattle and it is a treat if i go FC!

Part of the point, I know that FC is rubbish on some operators such as South Eastern so wouldn't pay for it. On others I may decide to pay an extra £10 for an AP in first (as is often the difference)

For me between Scotland and England I travel first or fly, no discounts as it is coming out my own pocket.

 

[222007]

EMT are positioned far too low.

The seating in First Class on the HSTs is excellent and most of the 222 interiors are also great.

You actually get served unlike XC, where often you are simply walked past.

I am sorry, but you simply have NO clue and that is putting it politely, this thread is absolutely pointless as its based on your "expert" opinion which are normally found in something called a blog!!!
:roll:

I'd like to pick up on a few points here. Having recently travelled first class on EMT on there HST i disagree about seating. The seat i had felt like it had little padding. The 222's are hit and miss although there refurbed 222's are actually quite reasonable.

In reference to XC My experience is that the First class host's are generally very good at there jobs with a reasonable selection of first class offerings well for my needs anyway.

Also to say someone has no clue is a little childish. I never saw the OP say he was an expert. Everyone's experiences are going to be different and what someone expects from first class is going to vary. This was the OP's opinions on the service he recieved and how he was treated. after all it's a public forum and somewhere for people to discuss experiences etc. A lot of threads could be argued as pointless if your going to rubbish this thread

 

[cuccir]

What is it with first class on this site? I wonder how many of those commenting on this thread are travelling on a priv , on a child discount, or on YP/Oldie discount?

But there are many many occasions where you can travel first class at a not significantly higher price than standard. Virgin offer it free if you have an anytime ticket at weekends. It would cost £20 to upgrade to first with East Coast between Peterborough and Inverness. £10 between Barrow-in-Furness and York on FTPE. etc etc. Obviously you get less at weekends, but it's still an improvement on standard and on journeys of those length, good value.

And then there's the advance tickets, which are often significantly cheaper than the standard walk on fares...

On my BB yesterday afternoon, half of the threads on the front page related in some way or another to First Class...

I think East Coast's high profile new offering has made people reflect more broadly on what's available. I'm sure it will calm down over time

 

[90019]

• ScotRail (Class 170)*

*The seats are slightly better than FCC, but the compartment is very small.

What exactly do you expect?
It's a 3 car train, they're not going to give a whole carriage to first class.

 

[DarloRich]

But some ( perhaps many) people can barely afford the costs of the CC ticket let alone and FC ticket.
Therefore an FC upgrade at an extra 10/20/25 pounds is something they cant afford.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What exactly do you expect?
It's a 3 car train, they're not going to give a whole carriage to first class.

I agree, much the same for SE, SN, FCC etc. On these sort of TOCs, 1st is just a quiet section to escape Standard, it isn't there to provide a silver service!

 

[Failed Unit]

What exactly do you expect?
It's a 3 car train, they're not going to give a whole carriage to first class.

Which apart from during times of disruption I have never seen full.

To be honest the way it is done is perfect for the unit, it is sectioned off (unlike the 158s) and has an improvement in the seating (unlike the 158s) and power points (until recently unlike the 158s)

Although before I look like I am 158 bashing, the 158s were never supposed to have 1st class, Scotrail added it back very quickly after strong customer feedback!

 

[cuccir]

But some ( perhaps many) people can barely afford the costs of the CC ticket let alone and FC ticket.
Therefore an FC upgrade at an extra 10/20/25 pounds is something they cant afford.

Granted, especially if (say) you are a family travelling with multiple members: £10 is not much to shell out for one person, but £40-£50 might be.

Nevertheless, the idea that First Class is only an exotic luxury available to the few - I earn under the UK's average wage, for example, and whilst I travel in standard more regularly, I probably use first half a dozen times a year - is also a myth that could do with busting. In this case, knowing what regular travellers think of each service and so prioritising when I do travel FC is very useful!

 

[Failed Unit]

Granted, especially if (say) you are a family travelling with multiple members: £10 is not much to shell out for one person, but £40-£50 might be.

Nevertheless, the idea that First Class is only an exotic luxury available to the few - I earn under the UK's average wage, for example, and whilst I travel in standard more regularly, I probably use first half a dozen times a year - is also a myth that could do with busting. In this case, knowing what regular travellers think of each service and so prioritising when I do travel FC is very useful!

I think this is actually one of the successes of privatisation, I could not afford first class (except at weekends) until GNER introduced the AP fares which we have now come to expect, back then we had no railcard discounts (except disable), no child discounts etc. I am amazed at the fare "simplification" ATOC allowed the likes of YP and child discounts on first class but they did.

Under BR the £3 upgrade for weekend first was all we got (and that was just for the seat no freebies back then) But BR only offer the 1st Open and that was it. Saying that I don't know what the difference was between the standard open, back then savers were also a lot cheaper and easier to use! The were a walk on ticket not a walk on when we tell you to!

 

[DarloRich]

TBH - i would never even consider using FC on say TPE, Southern, South East etc. It simply isnt worth it.

I and have used FC on longer distance services ( London - GLasgow (Both ECML & WCML) Cross Country ( when it was a proper train) and have done so on cheap tickets. I dont think i would pay a full price FC ticket.

 

[Failed Unit]

I dont think i would pay a full price FC ticket.

I think very few people would to be honest, for London - Edinburgh that is nearly £400! I guess some people do but if you know the day before the southbound train you are using then £200 is a lot more respectable! If you are booking in Advance you may find £100 return which is comparing well with airlines. However I won't dismiss at all the fact you can do it for £32 in Standard which is probably the cheapest possible way from the centre of Edinburgh to the Centre of London!

 

[DarloRich]

I think very few people would to be honest, for London - Edinburgh that is nearly £400! I guess some people do but if you know the day before the southbound train you are using then £200 is a lot more respectable! If you are booking in Advance you may find £100 return which is comparing well with airlines. However I won't dismiss at all the fact you can do it for £32 in Standard which is probably the cheapest possible way from the centre of Edinburgh to the Centre of London!

depends if your expense policy covers it! lol

 

[All Line Rover]

What exactly do you expect?
It's a 3 car train, they're not going to give a whole carriage to first class.

I don't expect the First Class compartment to be any bigger. My only worry is that it may get full during rush-hour. I've never seen it happen - but that's probably because I don't travel during rush-hour! If I did get full at times, I wouldn't recommend that someone buy a First Class season ticket.

In actual fact I'd never recommend someone buy any First Class ticket with ScotRail (except the weekend upgrade) - it's a complete rip-off! I only travel with ScotRail on "EC&Connections" tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which apart from during times of disruption I have never seen full.

To be honest the way it is done is perfect for the unit, it is sectioned off (unlike the 158s) and has an improvement in the seating (unlike the 158s) and power points (until recently unlike the 158s)

Although before I look like I am 158 bashing, the 158s were never supposed to have 1st class, Scotrail added it back very quickly after strong customer feedback!

Oh OK well I take that point back. FCC Thameslink services still have a bigger compartment, though.

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't expect the First Class compartment to be any bigger. My only worry is that it may get full during rush-hour. I've never seen it happen - but that's probably because I don't travel during rush-hour! If I did get full at times, I wouldn't recommend that someone buy a First Class season ticket.

The get full in rush hour - of people with standard class tickets knowing that in the front 3 coaches they will never get their ticket checked so they may as well take the seat :roll:

A single 170 has 18FC seats which is fine for most route, 36 on the Edinburgh - Glasgow when we have 2x 170s. (although it is only enforced in the rear 3 where the trolley is)

I think the ratio is about right, Scotrail don't really offer first APs and even at the weekend when advance card holders get free upgrades it is rarely full.

 

[All Line Rover]

TBH - i would never even consider using FC on say TPE, Southern, South East etc. It simply isnt worth it.

I and have used FC on longer distance services ( London - GLasgow (Both ECML & WCML) Cross Country ( when it was a proper train) and have done so on cheap tickets. I dont think i would pay a full price FC ticket.

I disagree about TPE. They have some very reasonable First Advance fares out there. The First Class seats are very comfortable - the Standard Class ones are not (I really hate TPE's Standard Class section - they should get rid of some tables!!). Standard Class also get's full very often - once, I heard the guard apologizing to passengers who had been standing from Manchester Piccadilly to Edinburgh! Basically, there is a big difference between Standard and First Class on TPE.

This is not the case on Southern or Southeastern!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But some ( perhaps many) people can barely afford the costs of the SC ticket let alone and FC ticket.
Therefore an FC upgrade at an extra 10/20/25 pounds is something they cant afford.

Oh come on! :roll:

£7 London to Birmingham, £11.50 London to Manchester/Liverpool, £13 London to Plymouth, £16.50 London to Edinburgh...

Almost anyone can afford that! And if they can't afford it, then they can't afford to travel in the first place, as the above fares quoted are by far the cheapest way to travel. (Compared to a car.)

 

[cuccir]

TBH - i would never even consider using FC on say TPE, Southern, South East etc. It simply isnt worth it.

I'd agree here. If first is just a case of slightly bigger seats then it's usually not even worth a cheap upgrade.

Mind you on three occasions I've been stood at Piccadilly travelling to the north east on a Sunday and it's been obvious that the train will be full to bursting. Both times I've headed straight to the first class knowing full well that it will be declassified to Leeds at least. What amazes me is that when this is announced on-board, very few people will come into the first class section: on two of the three times that this has happened, seats have remained un-used in the declassified first class!

 

[All Line Rover]

What is it with first class on this site? I wonder how many of those commenting on this thread are travelling on a priv , on a child discount, or on YP/Oldie discount?

I'm on a child discount. Soon I will be on a YP discount, although it won't apply to a First Class ALR. I still might pay £650 for one, though, depending on how much compensation I get for the one I recently purchased.

On a slightly unrelated note, I was talking to a transport MP on the Arriva Premier Service last week, who said that allowing First Class discounts for OAP's but not young people could contradict EU human rights legislation - so there! He's confident that some soliciter out there would want to take it up in the EUHR! I probably won't go that far - I'll complain to Passenger Focus first.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think that is why many resent first class, they are standing while first is empty! TPE Edinburgh - Manchester is a good example, and when first was introduced on both TPE and XCs 170s the loss of standard seats was highlighted. (not sure what people make of the XC turbos offerings).

Virgins pendo are another example, makes some people happy but I have yet to go on a pendo that could have filled more than 2 first coaches even in the peak. I think everyone admits the ratio is wrong and 3 first 6 standard would be better. I am always mystified by the low number of reasonably priced APs on West Coast. Other years they would rather declassify g than get more revenue by selling more first APs.

 

[sonorguy]

I dont care what first class is like, i dont care what you get free (key word there!) in first class or what the seats are like or what the carpet is like. FFS most of us go in cattle and it is a treat if i go FC!

The obvious comment here, and you may be alluding to it, is that nothing in First Class is free, you've normally paid over the odds for it in travelling first class anyway.

My own views (obviously subjective) are based on using first class regularly for business reasons, basically so I can work on journeys to and from London, which just isn't possible in standard (for me anyhow).

I'm less interested in the 'free' food on offer normally, the journey is not overlong and I won't starve, but more in the comfort of the seats and space available to me to work in. In this sense VT score highly, EC aren't bad and GC are very good as long as it's an HST. I absolutely hated FGW as the carriage was too crowded.

Another point in EC's favour is that the coffee has improved markedly with the new service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm on a child discount. Soon I will be on a YP discount, although it won't apply to a First Class ALR. I still might pay £650 for one, though, depending on how much compensation I get for the one I recently purchased.

On a slightly unrelated note, I was talking to a transport MP on the Arriva Premier Service last week, who said that allowing First Class discounts for OAP's but not young people could contradict EU human rights legislation - so there! He's confident that some soliciter out there would want to take it up in the EUHR! I probably won't go that far - I'll complain to Passenger Focus first.

Re: YP in 1st. That is aubsurd, when are we going to stop this rights crap? Basic human rights are good - education, sanitation etc, but the amount of bull that gets approved because of the human rights bill is unbelivable!

 

[SS4]

Re: YP in 1st. That is aubsurd, when are we going to stop this rights crap? Basic human rights are good - education, sanitation etc, but the amount of bull that gets approved because of the human rights bill is unbelivable!

If YP discounts are stopped then senior discounts need to be stopped too. It's fair to say that it's a privilege instead of a right but when does giving privileges out become discrimination?

 

[All Line Rover]

Re: YP in 1st. That is aubsurd, when are we going to stop this rights crap? Basic human rights are good - education, sanitation etc, but the amount of bull that gets approved because of the human rights bill is unbelivable!

I agree that it can be a bit OTT! But the legislation is there, and it's not going to stop me complaining to Passenger Focus.