Future of the 350/2s

[61653 HTAFC]

They're fine, just a bit grubby. The usual Northern replacement covers/foams and a bit of paint will do them fine.

Some of the units cascaded to Northern in recent times have been in a right old state, even after they've been through the works!

 

[BerkshireRails]

With my enthusiast hat on I'll be sad to see the 323s go, and it's a shame we never got the third run of units for West Yorkshire seeing as they were built in Leeds... but alas the national network isn't my personal train set!

In some respects, that is what railway games like NimbyRails are for.

If the 350/2s are in a similar state to what they were in about 18 months ago when I rode one from New Street to International, then they'll need a proper comprehensive refurbishment for Northern to pass them off as an improvement. Not just the usual "new seat covers and a bit of spit and polish" that seems to be the usual standard for Northern refurbishments, even if the 3+2 is retained which it almost certainly will be: after all most* of the units they'd be replacing are also 3+2.

*=Technically all "replaced" units will be 3+2, but I'm including the possibility that changes to diagrams and allocations tied in with the "new" fleet could still mean that some current 331 services become 350.

That is expected for any unit at its mid-life. Northern/Bee Network probably can get another 15-20 years out of the 350/2s. Spare parts shouldn't be an issue as Siemens is making them for the other desrios anyway and I don't see Siemens going bust anytime soon.

 

[Mamorin]

Northern will get another 15-20 years out of the 350/2 with a good mid life refurb.

As you've said getting spare parts will never become an issue.

Heres is hoping the all the trials go well and Northern do take on the 350/2s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2025 ==

Quite a few of the test runs to Hadfield got cancelled last night and early this morning something may have been wrong with 350232.

Some test runs still happened though.

 

[BerkshireRails]

Quite a few of the test runs to Hadfield got cancelled last night and early this morning something may have been wrong with 350232.

Some test runs still happened though.

Real Time Trains has the reason for cancellation due to the late arrival of the inbound service.

 

[Mamorin]

One of the canceled runs was at Freightliner's request, wonder if that had anything to do with the unit.

 

[BerkshireRails]

One of the canceled runs was at Freightliner's request, wonder if that had anything to do with the unit.

They could have been route conducting the Europhenix Crewe.

 

[Mamorin]

If that was what Freightliner was doing, then they were most likely covering for an unavailable EPR route conductor.

Unless it was freightliner doing the tests last night, but I do doubt that given that it had been EPR drivers that had done all other trials.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2025 ==

Looks like the trials on the Glossop Line are over as on RTT there are no more services from DB Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs to Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[Class15]

One of the canceled runs was at Freightliner's request, wonder if that had anything to do with the unit.

If this is because of the (FL) code in realtime trains, that doesn’t mean Freightliner. It’s simply a cancellation code.

 

[Mamorin]

Yeah its just the FL code, my bad I just read what was on RTT wrong.

I'm guessing EPR cancelled the 03:00 to Hadfield due to some issue with the unit.

 

[tfw756rider]

YouTuber subwayexpress has uploaded a video on the subject of the "Northern 350/2" speculation:

 

[Mamorin]

Saw that earlier, my issues are that he thinks the 350/2s will go to Northern to make up for the scrapped 319s.

He also does not mention that 6 car 323s and 4 car 331s have replaced the 319s, he just says 3 car 323s replaced 4 car 319s.

Don't get me started on his idea of Northern taking on a small number of 350/2s to replace the 333s.

He makes no mention of the idea 350/2s may replace 323s with Northern, he seams to not know just how old the 323s are.

 

[BerkshireRails]

Saw that earlier, my issues are that he thinks the 350/2s will go to Northern to make up for the scrapped 319s.

He also does not mention that 6 car 323s have replaced the 319s, he says 3 car 323s replaced 4 car 319s.

Don't get me started on his idea of Northern taking on a small number of 350/2s to replace the 333s.

He makes no mention of the idea 350/2s may replace 323s with Northern, he seams to not know just how old the 323s are.

And he doesn't know about the 331s being moved to cover for the loss of the 319s.

 

[Mamorin]

I did edit that information in not longer after I made that post so not sure why you could not see that.

Honestly I would not listen to subwayexpress' opinion on this, we on this thread know a lot better than he does.

I will admit though it is nice to see more coverage of the Glossop Line trials on Youtube.

 

[tfw756rider]

I will admit though it is nice to see more coverage of the Glossop Line trials on Youtube.

Was there already some, then?

 

[Mamorin]

Yes, there was these 2 videos showing the 350s on the Glossop tests but these were the only Youtube videos I knew of.

 

[tfw756rider]

Many thanks

 

[Mamorin]

Your welcome.

 

[MichaelTrains]

Just been told by a Northern member of staff that Northern are getting the 350s.

It will be interesting to see how many and which lines they run on.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I watched a YouTube video last week which said a class 350 has been spotted being tested for Northern. I can't remember but I think it said they were the type 2s which have 3+2 seating and in a dire need of a full refurbishment. If they get refurbished into 2+2 and replace some of the old 156s and 158s it can only be a good thing. More likely they will just replace some of the retired 319s though and possibly 323s.

 

[Trainguy34]

It would probably be the /2s as they're off-lease anyway

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

331s regularly reach 100mph between Salford Crescent and Bolton, the schedules had to be slowed down for swiching to 90mph limited 323s.

There's 110 between Wigan and Balshaw Lane (Liverpool-Blackpool services), and north of Preston if they stay under the wires.
The east side will have 110 between Leeds and York fairly soon.

 

[TheSmiths82]

So is it likely these will replace the 323s? Are the 769's faster than the 323s? I didn't know the 323s were limited to 90mph.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So is it likely these will replace the 323s? Are the 769's faster than the 323s? I didn't know the 323s were limited to 90mph.

The 769s have a higher speed limit than the 323s (100mph vs 90mph), but the 769s have severely lacking acceleration.

 

[tfw756rider]

I watched a YouTube video last week which said a class 350 has been spotted being tested for Northern. I can't remember but I think it said they were the type 2s which have 3+2 seating and in a dire need of a full refurbishment. If they get refurbished into 2+2 and replace some of the old 156s and 158s it can only be a good thing. More likely they will just replace some of the retired 319s though and possibly 323s.

The YouTube video embedded in post #880 (9 posts above yours, on this page?)

 

[BerkshireRails]

So is it likely these will replace the 323s? Are the 769's faster than the 323s? I didn't know the 323s were limited to 90mph.

A 769 is around 0.26-0.36ms-2 and for comparison a 323 & 350/2 are both around 1ms-2 and a 331 is 1.3ms-2.

 

[Peter0124]

A 769 is around 0.26-0.36ms-2 and for comparison a 323 & 350/2 are both around 1ms-2 and a 331 is 1.3ms-2.

That 769 acceleration is awful!

 

[The Planner]

Northern are being persuaded to take 350s over 323s.

 

[TheSmiths82]

The YouTube video embedded in post #880 (9 posts above yours, on this page?)

I was replying to a different thread, I didn't know this existing thread even existed hence mentioning that YT video. I didn't know it had already been posted at the time . Two different threads on the same subject were merged.

 

[tfw756rider]

About a week ago, TrainRealm on YouTube posted Northern 350 'diagram' illustrations (albeit they have the "northern by arriva" logos on them).

I attempted an AI-generated Northern 350, but unlike the Great Western Railway 350, the Northern 350 wasn't quite right. i know @Pete_uk manages to get really good AI pictures, so maybe he'd be so kind as to have a go at an AI Northern 350?

 

[TheSmiths82]

Northern are being persuaded to take 350s over 323s.

Given that the 323's are now over 30 years old I don't think that is a bad thing. While I still think there is life in the 323's I think they do need to be phased out. I know the 350's are now getting on a bit (must be 20 years old?) but they are still decent trains if they have decent seats. I actually quite like the trains on the LNW 350 Crewe to London route.