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Suppression of Ukrainian culture on Crimea ? There was never ever any large presence of Ukrainian culture on Crimea. Why did Russia fought against Britain on Crimea in the 1850's ?
And the rest of the occupied areas, were they also never Ukrainian? Crimea was overwhelmingly Tatar when it was annexed by the Russian Empire. There has been two centuries of ethnic cleansing and settlements by Russians to produce the current demographics.
Although you frame the Crimean Wars as being between Russia and Britain, it was mainly centred on the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. Crimea was 80% Tatar at that point.
I'd recommend to speak to the people in Cyprus. NATO member Turkey invaded Cyprus in the 1970's and was awarded territory.
Turkey wasn't awarded territory, the only people who recognise Turkish rule over that part of Cyprus are the Turks. Everyone else considers it an illegal occupation but there's no way to reverse it without significant bloodshed.
So no DMZ on the Russian side of the border? Why not, except it is pointless asking you as it is clear that you want Ukraine partitioned and handed over to Russia.
Ukraine does not wield any veto power in the UN Security Council. Once USA and Russia reached an agreement, China will fall in line. The question is whether UK is voting against USA. Trump may cancel the recent trade agreement and impose tariffs.
That's an interesting view of geopolitics, and I also note that you've overlooked a 5th permanent member of the Security Council which is also not pro-Trump. I also find it unlikely that Trump or Putin would see the UN as a primary route to agreement.
Well, there was never a referendum held in Eastern Germany, whether this country wants to get absorbed by West Germany.
Things that were done wrong in 1990 explain very well why the AfD + BSW + Linke (the ruling party of former East Germany) have reached 60% of the vote share in recent elections.
Both the Federal Republic of Germany and German Democratic Republic laid claim to being the successor state to the unified Germany. After the implosion of the DDR, in which the SED's lack of any legitimacy was exposed, the unification process was handled at inter-governmental level, concluded with a treaty. I find the argument that a referendum would have created legitimacy "interesting", given your lack of regard for the referendum under which Ukraine gained its independence as a unitary state. As for the roles of AfD/BSW/Linke, their current popularity and the existence of faults in the unification process do not alter the legitimacy of the decisions taken at that time.
So not a true DMZ then, but effectively a perpetuation of the current Russian dominated status quo. Please forgive me if, after the antics of Putin's regime since 2014, I don't find that option convincing.
The phrase is "security guarantees". A blue beret operation, populated by states that have shown support for Putin, suggests more of a carve up than a fair settlement.
The idea is that in a final settlement the following rights are granted and enforced in all Ukrainian territories (West Ukraine + Eastern Ukraine):
- Both Russian and Ukrainian are the official languages;
- Schools must teach both languages (or each city/community must provide kids with access to such schools);
- Both the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the Greek-Catholic Church are allowed operate without any interference everywhere;
- Bandera/OUN propaganda is to be forbidden;
- Cemeteries and symbols of this war and the Great Patriotic War must be protected;
- The installation of long-range weapons and deployment of NATO troops is strictly forbidden in all Ukrainian territories;
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That's an interesting view of geopolitics, and I also note that you've overlooked a 5th permanent member of the Security Council which is also not pro-Trump. I also find it unlikely that Trump or Putin would see the UN as a primary route to agreement.
Both the Federal Republic of Germany and German Democratic Republic laid claim to being the successor state to the unified Germany. After the implosion of the DDR, in which the SED's lack of any legitimacy was exposed, the unification process was handled at inter-governmental level, concluded with a treaty.
The East German parliament dissolved the GDR.
FRG absorbed five newly-founded states and East Berlin.
That was it.
That process was deeply flawed, as East Germans had little to no say about the constitution of the new unified Germany.
The FRG simply retained the old constitution - leaving the new Eastern states basically powerless when it comes to military and foreign policy affairs.
As for the roles of AfD/BSW/Linke, their current popularity and the existence of faults in the unification process do not alter the legitimacy of the decisions taken at that time.
There is a push by these parties that German states should become more legal influence on foreign policy decision, esp. the right to veto accession of Ukraine and other countries to NATO and EU.
The Ukraine War has been driving voters to the AfD and BSW in last year's states elections.
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The phrase is "security guarantees". A blue beret operation, populated by states that have shown support for Putin, suggests more of a carve up than a fair settlement.
The issue of security guarantees will be discussed in Alaska today. These guarantees must go both ways. Russia wants security guarantees, as well.
And the DMZ all over Eastern Ukraine would solve that issue for both sides - as Russia won't attack Chinese/Indian troops and Chinese/Indian troops won't attack Mainland Russia.
The idea that Russian troops won’t shoot peacekeepers is ludicrous. Blue Berets are frequently in the line of fire, especially in disputes as serious as this.
The idea is that in a final settlement the following rights are granted and enforced in all Ukrainian territories (West Ukraine + Eastern Ukraine):
- Both Russian and Ukrainian are the official languages;
- Schools must teach both languages (or each city/community must provide kids with access to such schools);
- Both the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the Greek-Catholic Church are allowed operate without any interference everywhere;
- Bandera/OUN propaganda is to be forbidden;
- Cemeteries and symbols of this war and the Great Patriotic War must be protected;
- The installation of long-range weapons and deployment of NATO troops is strictly forbidden in all Ukrainian territories;
That is not a basis for reconciliation, but a Russian wish list. The tell is partly in the use of extremely Russian terms (mandatory use of 2 languages, Bandera, Great Patriotic War), but more in the lack of any element of reciprocity.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation, it is for the citizens of Ukraine to decide on their choice of language, political beliefs, and alliances. I completely agree that there should be freedom of association and religion; that means not privileging specific beliefs or faith groups above others.
Ukrainian citizens, who lived in the territories of Crimea, LPR and DPR were not allow to participate in any Ukrainian elections since 2014 - so much to the claim than Ukrainian citizens decide about their future.
You don't transplant an old tree - if we refer to older people.
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Judging by current photos of Alaska, where the US President invites the Russian President into his Beast car AND by judging how the US President treated Zelenskyy in the White House - we can see who is winning the war and is loosing the war.
Ukrainian citizens, who lived in the territories of Crimea, LPR and DPR were not allow to participate in any Ukrainian elections since 2014 - so much to the claim than Ukrainian citizens decide about their future.
And who do you think was preventing them from taking part in those elections? Might it, perhaps, have been the occupying power Russia by any chance? Or do you honestly think that if Ukraine poll workers had rolled into down town Donetsk or Simferopol they would have been able to go about their business?
And who do you think was preventing them from taking part in those elections? Might it, perhaps, have been the occupying power Russia by any chance? Or do you honestly think that if Ukraine poll workers had rolled into down town Donetsk or Simferopol they would have been able to go about their business?
Simple answer !
The Ukrainian authorities have refused to cooperate with the DPR/LPR authorities , that is something Poroshenko assured in the Minsk 2 protocolls.
Kiev never tried to send any poll workers to Crimea/DPR/LPR.
Simple answer !
The Ukrainian authorities have refused to cooperate with the DPR/LPR authorities , that is something Poroshenko assured in the Minsk 2 protocolls.
Kiev never tried to send any poll workers to Crimea/DPR/LPR.
So, to be clear, you're saying that the only reason why no Ukrainian elections have been held since 2014 in Crimea and the Donbas is solely due to Ukraine itself? That the occupation either outright by Russia or by Russian controlled and backed separatist forces would have allowed such elections to proceed with no interference? That poll workers, candidates, canvassers, ballot boxes, etc would have gone un-interfered with? That none of them would have had to have been in fear for the life and wellbeing? It is only Ukraine that is to blame for the lack of elections?
Also you keep talking about the DPR and LPR but those are, of course, constructs of Russia itself. They didn't exist until Russia decided to create them in 2014 to aid in its attempt to destabilise and exert control over Ukraine before finally illegally annexing that territory in late 2022.
Surely you must be able to see how you are simply speaking from a pro-Russian point of view?
After leaving Alaska, Trump says he would prefer to "go directly to a peace agreement" to end the war in Ukraine as he prepares to meet Zelensky on Monday.
www.bbc.co.uk
We made 'some headway', says Trump
Donald Trump says he and Putin had a productive meeting and that they made "some headway".
He says he will call Nato allies and others, including Ukraine's Zelensky. He says a deal is "ultimately" up to them and they will have to agree.
There's no deal until there's a deal, he says, adding that "great progress" was made.
After leaving Alaska, Trump says he would prefer to "go directly to a peace agreement" to end the war in Ukraine as he prepares to meet Zelensky on Monday.
It doesn't sound very promising - sources are indicating that Putin has demanded Ukraine cede all of Donetsk and Luhansk as the price for peace. The former is only partly held by Russia with Ukraine holding strong defensive positions on the high ground that Russia has been too weak to seize. IMHO Trump has made a complete fool of himself by fawning to Putin and, even indirectly, mooting his support for this deal.
BBC News said:
Putin proposes control of eastern Donetsk in return for freezing front lines - reports James Waterhouse, Ukraine correspondent in Brussels
Vladimir Putin has reportedly made a proposal to Donald Trump that involves Ukraine handing over complete control of its eastern Donetsk region, which is 70% occupied by Russia. According to multiple newspapers, Putin would in return agree to the front lines being frozen. Other unspecified concessions were apparently offered. Donald Trump reportedly told Volodymyr Zelensky the offer in a phone call after the Alaska summit. Uncomfortable as it is for Kyiv, the question of territory is a core negotiating point in these peace efforts.
It’s tried to hold firm on its stance of not conceding any to Moscow, which in turn hasn’t backed down on its demand for not just the land it’s seized, but the complete control of four Ukrainian regions.
It is difficult imagining Zelensky handing over major cities like Kramatorsk, Kostyantynivka and Sloviansk after successfully defending them for so long. It would also require the approval of Ukraine’s parliament.
Volodymyr Zelensky refused to cede control of the region to Russia in exchange for a ceasefire.
"If we withdraw from the Donbas today - our fortifications, our terrain, the heights we control - we will clearly open a bridgehead for the Russians to prepare an offensive," he said.
The proposal would also contradict EU leaders' warnings that in any peace deal, Ukraine's "territorial integrity" must be respected and "international borders must not be changed by force".
After leaving Alaska, Trump says he would prefer to "go directly to a peace agreement" to end the war in Ukraine as he prepares to meet Zelensky on Monday.
It doesn't sound very promising - sources are indicating that Putin has demanded Ukraine cede all of Donetsk and Luhansk as the price for peace. The former is only partly held by Russia with Ukraine holding strong defensive positions on the high ground that Russia has been too weak to seize. IMHO Trump has made a complete fool of himself by fawning to Putin and, even indirectly, mooting his support for this deal.
Yes the revelations that have come out today haven't been as good. While not the only reason, I suspect one of the biggest reasons is Trump has form for agreeing with whatever the last person suggested to him; he met Putin yesterday, so agrees with him at the moment, despite appearing more sympathetic to Europe's side after calls/meetings with them in the run-up. All the more why someone of this mindset (or lack of mindset) should never be allowed to run a country (and where they do, should be avoided by everyone else at all costs).
One thing that might derail things on the US side, is that there are rumours Putin is also trying to leverage access to Alaskan minerals, which would be hugely controversial and would have bipartisan opposition. So far it's largely been denied, but knowing Trump it wouldn't be surprising if Putin at least tries to trick him into such a thing (there were things proposed by Trump in 2018 after meeting Putin that he had to backtrack on because they were so outlandish).
I'm appalled at the way this American moron greeted a mass murderer with a red carpet welcome and shook the hand (instead of the throat).
A kick in the teeth for all Ukrainians to have to watch this disgusting episode unfold in front of them. To have an imbecile try to negotiate a ceasefire on their behalf when he is obviously intent on making a name for himself (I could suggest a few) rather than help their cause is nothing short of catastrophic. Putin has him by the short and curlies and can out-manoeuvre him at will. Where have those sanctions gone that Trump was about to lay on Russia if no ceasefire was forthcoming a week ago......oh, seem to have been forgotten, another Putin master move by agreeing to have a "chat".
Now we have Starmer saying peace is closer in Ukraine "thanks to Donald Trump" !!!!!!!
Agreed, except for a minority of people with Ukrainian heritage, who are Putin apologists (unfortunately this has even been demonstrated earlier in this thread, though their flawed logic was exposed and challenged by knowledgeable members).
Putin apologists are entitled to their opinions, but they should admit that the vast majority of Ukrainians are not represented by their views.
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It'll be on the lines of 'Let's put on a good show for the TV today'
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I've stumbled across the beast(s) on Parkway Camden Town on his last visit, they both had the same number plates. There was something that looked like a pickup truck with a big box on the back like a hot dog stand at festivals with a massive axle, always wondered what that was for.
It doesn't sound very promising - sources are indicating that Putin has demanded Ukraine cede all of Donetsk and Luhansk as the price for peace. The former is only partly held by Russia with Ukraine holding strong defensive positions on the high ground that Russia has been too weak to seize. IMHO Trump has made a complete fool of himself by fawning to Putin and, even indirectly, mooting his support for this deal.
I'm not a bit surprised. I fully expected Trump to do his Taco thing. Putin was never going to concede anything. Hence it was always going to be "get Ukraine to make concessions". This meeting was completely pointless, as there is no way that Ukraine will concede any territory, especially highly populated cities and towns.
Putin got something out of this though. Lots of good PR for his home audience and a good show for the rest of the world.
Trump however, no matter how it is spun, got absolutely nothing from this. Well, apart from those who are not MAGA, who already had worked out that this was always going to fail, they now have clear conformation that Trump is not only a clown, but completely incompetent as well. I would not even trust him to get me a drink in a pub...
Anyway, I think Ukraine and the counties that support Ukraine had already worked this out. That nothing would come of this meeting. And I think Ukraine is also playing Trump (as is Starmer etc.). In that, Ukraine has and is trying to reduce reliance on weapons from the U.S.A. and hence with everyday that they improve their own weapons supply and continue to obtain weapons from supportive countries, Trump makes himself less and less relevant.
What can Trump threaten to do now? Cut off support for Ukraine? Ukraine will just continue to fight. Ukraine is not going to take any notice of Trump if he turns against Ukraine. I would not be surprised if Trump just walks away from this and tries to completely ignore it.
There was something that looked like a pickup truck with a big box on the back like a hot dog stand at festivals with a massive axle, always wondered what that was for.
Zelensky won't be going alone to Washington this time, several European Leaders, including Macron, Merz and Von der Leyen will be joining him. This will make a repeat of that Oval Office encounter harder (or if it did happen again Zelensky wouldn't have to bear the brunt all alone):
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz also confirms he will travel to Washington, as the UK, France and Germany are set to hold Ukraine talks on Sunday.
www.bbc.co.uk
Who's going to Washington?
In the past few minutes there have been a flurry of updates, as several European leaders confirm they will be joining Zelensky for a meeting with Trump at the White House.
Statements are coming in thick and fast, so let's take stock of which leaders have said they're going:
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen
I heard a news bulletin on Classic FM earlier during which there was some speculation as to why Putin and Trump were so tight lipped after their meeting. Namely that there is a possible compromise that could end the war: Russia would retain all the conquered territory as well as the remainder of the Donbas. In return Ukraine becomes like post WW2 Germany with a significant NATO presence sufficient to deter any further Russian adventurism.
Neither side gets what it wants and Russia does get some reward for it's aggression but given Trump has made it obvious that to an extent he agrees with the Might Is Right principle it's hard to see him resisting. And however bad this sucks for Ukraine unless NATO goes to war alongside Ukraine there's almost no way to evict the Russian occupiers.
Ultimately without a difficult compromise it seems inevitable that the war will simply drag on indefinitely or at least until the Russian economy suffers a complete collapse; I doubt the West has sufficient clout to actually bring this about.
I heard a news bulletin on Classic FM earlier during which there was some speculation as to why Putin and Trump were so tight lipped after their meeting. Namely that there is a possible compromise that could end the war: Russia would retain all the conquered territory as well as the remainder of the Donbas. In return Ukraine becomes like post WW2 Germany with a significant NATO presence sufficient to deter any further Russian adventurism.
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