Chiltern MK5s Starting 2026 (non speculative updates thread)

[Peter Mugridge]

True, but they had around 4 years. All I want is a simple yes or no answer, are they taking it or not?

Richard Allen, in his Green Signals interview, stated "the whole fleet" so I am sure that would include the spare - after all, the spare exists for a very good reason in that the driving trailers are the most vulnerable vehicles to getting damaged and the entire rake cannot function without one.

 

[PLY2AYS]

I'd be interested in where you suppose it'd be of any use anywhere else!

Do TfW still need one after the farmer’s fandango?

 

[CR165022]

Do TfW still need one after the farmer’s fandango?

Wrong type of DVT for that

 

[PLY2AYS]

Wrong type of DVT for that

Thought as much

 

[D365]

The video states that Chiltern will be taking all 13 units from TPE. Does this include the spare DVT?

True, but they had around 4 years. All I want is a simple yes or no answer, are they taking it or not?

Does it really matter whether or not Beacon is supplying the spare Mk5A DTS (not DVT) to Chiltern at this time? I'm more interested in where it will be based location-wise.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Wrong type of DVT for that

The MK5a one isn't a DVT at all - the V stands for 'van', i.e. guard's van, which it isn't. Is the official designation DTS?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The MK5a one isn't a DVT at all - the V stands for 'van', i.e. guard's van, which it isn't. Is the official designation DTS?

Wikipedia lists it as "Driving Open Brake Standard".

 

[The exile]

Wikipedia lists it as "Driving Open Brake Standard".

Or, following the conventional order, DBSO.

 

[Mogz]

Probably a stupid question, but here goes!

If increased capacity was required for special events, could they be operated with 2 Mk5 sets with a loco in the middle? Probably platform lengths is an issue, but is it technically possible?

Hey! Now there’s an idea! DVT with driving cab at either, presumably?

 

[warwickshire]

Friday 15th August 2025:

1. 5Q86 1131 Longsight T.M.D to Eastleigh Arriva Train Care
68020 with set CH13. Around 12 minutes late through Lapworth.

Means of Friday 15th August 2025

1. 68020 with Set CH13 Eastleigh for preparation
2. 68029 with Set CH02 Eastleigh for preparation
3. 68032 with set CH05 Eastleigh for preparation
4. 68022 with set CH12 Banbury for staff training and familiarisation.

 

[BanburyBlue]

68020 and set CH12 are on lease to Chiltern and are in the HOHQ pool, depot allocation 'EH'.

Just saw this set going through Oxford.

 

[800001]

68020 and TP13 on their way from Long Marston to Eastleigh today.

 

[43096]

68020 and TP13 on their way from Long Marston to Eastleigh today.

It's now CH13...

 

[D6975]

TPE didn't make much use of it.

Au contraire, the spare 12814 replaced 12802 in set TP02 and saw considerable use.

 

[800001]

It's now CH13...

I know. I've read the posts above.

 

[nigelsporne]

Au contraire, the spare 12814 replaced 12802 in set TP02 and saw considerable use.

Au contraire. The definition of 'spare' is something held in reserve. Although 12814 may have been the originally intended spare it did not perform that task. This was taken by 12802. All this may be semantics or it got lost in translation. I would like to know whether 12802 is in a usable state to be transferred, along with the rest of the fleet, to Chiltern. Where is 12802 now? Years ago it was in Newport.

 

[xotGD]

I guess that there is a chance that the two 'spare' 68s, i.e., the two that are not part of the deal but can work with the stock, may be hired in at times to cover for loco shortages.

We'll have to wait to find out.

 

[Harpo]

The definition of 'spare' is something held in reserve.

Semantics. An entire fleet can be in use on a busy day and half stood ‘spare’ the next as it just isn’t needed.

 

[warwickshire]

Au contraire. The definition of 'spare' is something held in reserve. Although 12814 may have been the originally intended spare it did not perform that task. This was taken by 12802. All this may be semantics or it got lost in translation. I would like to know whether 12802 is in a usable state to be transferred, along with the rest of the fleet, to Chiltern. Where is 12802 now? Years ago it was in Newport.

12802 is at Long Marston, was taken there, by road during Spring 2024,

 

[Peter Sarf]

Au contraire. The definition of 'spare' is something held in reserve. Although 12814 may have been the originally intended spare it did not perform that task. This was taken by 12802. All this may be semantics or it got lost in translation. I would like to know whether 12802 is in a usable state to be transferred, along with the rest of the fleet, to Chiltern. Where is 12802 now? Years ago it was in Newport.

I have posted a reply in the Speculative threads area as I suspect there is plenty of speculation to be had !.
@warwickshire , @TT-ONR-NRN , @xotGD , @Harpo

 

[nigelsporne]

12802 is at Long Marston, was taken there, by road during Spring 2024,

Thank you.

 

[HeelBurton]

Or, following the conventional order, DBSO.

They will be known as DT. Driving trailer.

 

[adc82140]

From a driver training training perspective, will the 68s be largely identical to the existing ones used for the mark 3 rakes, or will there be sufficient difference to require a conversion course ? (I know full training will be needed on the driving end of the mk5 rake)

 

[43096]

They will be known as DT. Driving trailer.

They are DTS.

 

[HeelBurton]

From a driver training training perspective, will the 68s be largely identical to the existing ones used for the mark 3 rakes, or will there be sufficient difference to require a conversion course ? (I know full training will be needed on the driving end of the mk5 rake)

Conversion course for anyone who already signs mark 3 sets.

Full course for those who sign units only.

The DT end is basically the same layout as a 68. The reason why mark 3 training took so long was you are learning effectively 3 different major bits of equipment (DVT, coaches,68) this can be shortened now

 

[tfw756rider]

Class 172's are Turbostars also and are compatible with 15X and 170's

Yes, but they weren't as relevant to what was being discussed, and with their 6-speed ZF "bus-style" mechanical gearboxes, I group them more with the CAF units that copied that setup (initially NI C4K, and later the 195/196/197 back in Britain).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2025 ==

They will be known as DT. Driving trailer.

As they have been since 2019 or whenever it was.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2025 ==

They are DTS.

Maybe, but I can see DT / Driving Trailer (without the S / Standard) being the name more likely to stick. Not as technically correct, but far more common from what I've heard.

 

[nigelsporne]

Is it Chiltern's plan to initially replace the MK3s and test the other Mk5s during 2026 in preparation for the service enhancement in Dec 26? Will any station or track alterations be required for the enhancements?
Apologies if this is not the correct thread.

 

[Snow1964]

Is it Chiltern's plan to initially replace the MK3s and test the other Mk5s during 2026 in preparation for the service enhancement in Dec 26? Will any station or track alterations be required for the enhancements?
Apologies if this is not the correct thread.

I believe they want to start training straight away. They need to get a certain number of staff trained before they can be used in service, to avoid problems of untrained staff being rostered.

But at same time, don't want to spend any more than bare minimum keeping existing mk3s in service, and definitely don't want to do more (expensive) overhauls than necessary.

So likely they will get a transition, probably starting early 2026 (might do a run end of 2025, more for PR than everyday use initially), then phase in more sets over time. There is of course the opposite effect, new staff don't need to learn old mk3s after certain date.

My guess is they are likely to have replaced mk3s by about this time next year, with final sets in Autumn 2026 whilst they train up for any additional routes from December 2026 timetable change.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Aren't the Mk 3 leases expiring in March 2026, hence why initially just a like for like replacement with Mk 5 and the full Mk 5 fleet in by December 2026?

I can't see them doing a short term Mk 3 lease renewal.

Certainly the contract for 68 010 - 68 015 expires in March; I'd imagine the carriages are tied to the same date?

 

[Liam L]

Aren't the Mk 3 leases expiring in March 2026, hence why initially just a like for like replacement with Mk 5 and the full Mk 5 fleet in by December 2026?

I can't see them doing a short term Mk 3 lease renewal.

Certainly the contract for 68 010 - 68 015 expires in March; I'd imagine the carriages are tied to the same date?

Aren't the carriages owned by Arriva so makes it simpler for a agreement to be agreed?