What mobile phone charging standard will be prevalent by the time HS2 opens?

[Bletchleyite]

Are these real USB sockets or are they just mockups?

High power delivery USB has only been around since 2012 (60w) and 240w since 2021 - most USB sockets on trains predate this. Even the class 800s were tendered and designed during this pre-high power delivery era. Personally, I don’t see a reason to not to abandon the 3-pin (which itself is normally heavily limited compared to a standard household 3-pin) and use higher wattage USB-C instead. By the time these trains come on steam virtually all in service mobile devices will be powered by USB C. All Apple Laptops (which the OP specifically mentioned) are already charged via USB-C (I charge my iphone and MacBook Air using the same cable) so this will be folks expectation, and if the designers/engineers do go down a route of providing a very low wattage version will be met by disappointment.

I wouldn't bank on that. Wireless charging is more likely - Apple have already pretty much stated that they are going to remove the port entirely within the next couple of iPhone iterations, and like with the headphone socket everyone will follow. This is allowed within the present EU legislation - the rule is basically "if there is a port there must be at least one USB-C", if there is no port that is also legal.

The 3-pin plug by contrast is going nowhere.

A wire is so much more flexible than wireless charging which requires you to put it in a certain spot rather than within 1.5 metres of one (As per my current wire by my bed).
Wireless charging only would ruin the idea of battery packs entirely, and would make longer days much more difficult.

I don't entirely disagree, but I do think it is the way things are going (not least because it makes a totally waterproof phone far easier to do).

Any thoughts on where things might head?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think USB-C will be the end point, at least for a significant time.
We've got something that works almost universally now that does almost everything possibly needed.

Unless we can make wireless charging as convenient as current wired charging (in regards to portability), I don't see myself getting a phone without a USB-C port.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I think USB-C will be the end point, at least for a significant time.
We've got something that works almost universally now that does almost everything possibly needed.

Unless we can make wireless charging as convenient as current wired charging (in regards to portability), I don't see myself getting a phone without a USB-C port.

Wireless power banks already exist - albeit I can't comment on the practicality of actually using one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wireless power banks already exist - albeit I can't comment on the practicality of actually using one.

Plug in wireless charging "pucks" which typically attach to the phone with a magnet are the interim solution. Of course, the plug on the end of these is likely to be USB C.

 

[Noddy]

I don't entirely disagree, but I do think it is the way things are going (not least because it makes a totally waterproof phone far easier to do).

Any thoughts on where things might head?

I agree there are advantages in making mobile devices portless such as you mention, but there are also still big issues around wireless charging and overheating causing long term battery degradation.

I don’t doubt Apple would prefer to go wireless, but they’ve invested so much in battery management and health it would be completely counterintuitive for them to adopt a wireless only solution. Unless the overheating issues are sorted (by more than just having very low power charging solutions) I am sceptical it will be the primary charging solution when these trains are introduced.

USB-C, as a physical port, is the only show in town now given the legal support it has in the EU and other territories, and powers every type of mobile device from headphones to high performance laptops.

While some folk may argue that the three pin is ubiquitous, that’s only the case in the UK and Ireland. USB-C is the now the standard across pretty much the entire world, which will mean the parts are cheaper and international travel doesn’t involve adaptors.

 

[sor]

Not to mention that on the 16 Pro / Pro Max, the USB port is specifically touted for its data transfer speeds & you can connect an SSD to it for longer length video recordings. I suppose the most sensible approach is to use a standardised socket plate that wouldn't be too much of a faff to swap out if technology moves on. The connectors will fail anyway with the sorts of constant abuse it'll get on a train, so it'll need to be easily swapped. Since it'll probably just be the guts of an AC power brick and be fed with 240v anyway, might as well include a standard 3 pin socket too.

 

[NCT]

Charging isn't just for phones, it's for laptops too. Some people carry modelling / gaming laptops for work or leisure and they need the traditional three-pin.

Not everyone carries the latest iPhone either.

 

[Cdd89]

Wireless power banks already exist - albeit I can't comment on the practicality of actually using one.

Problem is wireless charging is less efficient than wired charging. In most circumstances this is irrelevant (worrying over a minuscule amount of additional energy consumption), but with a power bank it's of critical importance since if you're carrying something around you want as much power as possible out of it for its weight.

 

[Noddy]

Charging isn't just for phones, it's for laptops too. Some people carry modelling / gaming laptops for work or leisure and they need the traditional three-pin.

As I previously pointed out all Apple laptops are powered via USB-C these days (including the very high end Pros). While I know nothing about gaming PCs I just had a quick google and PC Mags ‘Best High End Gaming Laptop’ is the Lenovo Legion Pro 7i Gen 9 16, which is powered via USB C. My Dell work computer is also powered via USB C.

Not everyone carries the latest iPhone either.

We’re talking about what it will be like when these trains are introduced, not what it’s like today. By then USB C will have been on iPhones for the best part of a decade and as they were the last holdout most other phones were USB C well before them.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Charging isn't just for phones, it's for laptops too. Some people carry modelling / gaming laptops for work or leisure and they need the traditional three-pin.

Not everyone carries the latest iPhone either.

It's important that (mainly older) people realise that it is not necessarily a good thing to keep your old iPhone (or any phone) until it literally stops working.

As soon as Apple (or any manufacturer) ceases support for it, or the internal Lithium battery has not been replaced - the phone is potentially dangerous, either from cyber threats or battery degradation causing all manner of physical risks.

By the time HS2 opens, nobody should have an iPhone or any phone, that doesn't support USB-C. Even if they foolishly did, it would a tiny minority, and you wouldn't replace the phone, you'd just get a USB-C to whatever dated connection you need compatible cable.

If HS2 do USB-C properly and put the right watts/voltage through it (although I very much doubt they will) - you can power laptops etc without any issue at all. Everything about HS2 interiors seem cheap, even if I have received contradictory and in my view, unreliable information from their recent event in Derby.

 

[sor]

also, Apple has been supplying USB-C to lightning cables with their pre-USB-C phones for years, and they work fine with any USB-PD capable power supply ie anything modern and that you'd use with an Android phone or laptop (for once it's Apple who implemented the standard and everyone else who invented their own thing before moving towards standardisation)

As soon as Apple (or any manufacturer) ceases support for it, or the internal Lithium battery has not been replaced - the phone is potentially dangerous, either from cyber threats or battery degradation causing all manner of physical risks.

Apple has legendary software support. They have been known to release security updates for 10 year old phones. I'm not saying they'll be supporting any lightning phones by the time HS2 opens but I just wanted to point out that they don't do the industry-typical two or three years and then pretend it doesn't exist

They are perhaps the best manufacturer in terms of obtaining genuine battery replacements as well. Looks like they currently go as far back as the iPhone 6s (2015)

 

[lachlan]

Three-pin should always be included to allow charging of multiple devices at the same time via a USB hub.

 

[nlogax]

At the point of opening I imagine Qi2 will be the mainstream wireless standard alongside USB-C for wired charging (including laptops @45W).

 

[dosxuk]

The main issue with only providing USB-C outlets is that we don't know what future USB-C PD standards will exist during the lifespan of the HS2 stock. While the USB-C will likely remain standard for a while yet, the power available from it has changed multiple times since it was introduced.

If we have USB-C capable of charging phones/tablets and 13A sockets for the power users who want to charge up 2030's latest gaming laptop which uses 320W PD over USB-C we get the both of both worlds.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Any thoughts on where things might head?

Hard to imagine anything other than USB-C. The standard is a mess, but there's really no reason to offer anything other than that. 240W is now available over USB-PD, and that should be absolutely standard on HS2. The only other thing is that they need to make sure that there's plenty of ports available: it should be absolutely the norm to have two at every seat.

I don't see the sense in providing a traditional three pin power socket, 240W should be more than enough for the majority of laptops. There are certainly some gaming laptops out there that need more than 240W, but this is such a niche application that it seems pretty pointless to provide sockets for that. From what I understand, 240W is likely to be the maximum that USB-C will support, so I suspect that the vast majority of laptops will converge on that as time passes.

 

[vuzzeho]

I don't entirely disagree, but I do think it is the way things are going (not least because it makes a totally waterproof phone far easier to do).

Any thoughts on where things might head?

Three pin is absolutely needed - phones aren't the only thing charged on trains. But for phones - probably best to keep USB-C, as it seems like the prevalent standard for the foreseeable future, and most advancements in charging interfaces are generally done through USB-C's form factor. Wireless charging is nice, especially Qi2 (and beyond) but as mentioned, it still isn't perfect, and even with improvements, seems likely to stay as a technology reserved for flagships and possibly upper-mid-range phones. Of course, all of this assumes that we continue with slab phones as we currently have, and doesn't really take into account the direction the industry is starting to look at - mixed reality devices (but that's a discussion for another day)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Three pin is absolutely needed - phones aren't the only thing charged on trains. But for phones - probably best to keep USB-C, as it seems like the prevalent standard for the foreseeable future, and most advancements in charging interfaces are generally done through USB-C's form factor. Wireless charging is nice, especially Qi2 (and beyond) but as mentioned, it still isn't perfect, and even with improvements, seems likely to stay as a technology reserved for flagships and possibly upper-mid-range phones. Of course, all of this assumes that we continue with slab phones as we currently have, and doesn't really take into account the direction the industry is starting to look at - mixed reality devices (but that's a discussion for another day)

The easiest way to do this, of course, is just to fit shells for standard two-gang mains sockets at each pair of seats (single-gang at single seats in 1st) and then swap the faceplates as necessary - I have USB A faceplates in a few of the sockets in my house and they just directly replace normal ones. That said, it might be hard to fit the gubbins for a "full fat" USB C able to power a laptop into a socket shell, unlike USB A?

 

[vuzzeho]

That said, it might be hard to fit the gubbins for a "full fat" USB C able to power a laptop into a socket shell, unlike USB A?

I imagine it's probably not overly difficult. If we say 60W USB-C PD (power delivery), it's not at all unreasonable. It's probably more of a question of suppliers and who offers it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine it's probably not overly difficult. If we say 60W USB-C PD (power delivery), it's not at all unreasonable. It's probably more of a question of suppliers and who offers it.

It'll probably be a limited selection if they have to sign the contract now, but if they can just design the train to have a standard (fairly spacious) socket back box and sign the contract for those in five years' time, they'll be a tenner a pop at Wickes. Yes, the railway has requirements a house doesn't e.g. fire retardance, but in 5 years time even with that requirement they'll be cheaper and more easily available than now.

Given that the three-pin socket is not going anywhere, any new standard is likely to have an option built into normal domestic faceplates for years, and swapping them is an afternoon at the depot.

 

[Noddy]

Three pin is absolutely needed - phones aren't the only thing charged on trains.

That’s what folk keep saying but I’m interested to know what else they are used for? Hairdryers and straighteners? Do the cleaners use them for hoovering? Beyond that I’m really struggling.

 

[brad465]

At the rate HS2 is taking we won't need mobile phones, we can either teleport to whoever we need to talk to, and have the information on apps beamed to us on a Star Trek-style screen that appears in front of us when we needed

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Of course, all of this assumes that we continue with slab phones as we currently have, and doesn't really take into account the direction the industry is starting to look at - mixed reality devices (but that's a discussion for another day)

VR headsets (or similar) will need charigng too, and will probably use USB-C.

 

[Harpo]

I would guess that providing sockets for the great British public to burger up will be avoided and that it will be table-top hotspots only, even on fold down tables.

 

[Noddy]

VR headsets (or similar) will need charigng too, and will probably use USB-C.

Headsets are already mandated by the EU to be USB-C so I’d be amazed if there are any on sale that aren’t already.

 

[vuzzeho]

That’s what folk keep saying but I’m interested to know what else they are used for? Hairdryers and straighteners? Do the cleaners use them for hoovering? Beyond that I’m really struggling.

HS2 is intended to start in 2032 - old computers will probably still be in use, and just because laptops are charged by USB-C doesn't mean they may have their own peripheral chargers - as an example, the current MacBooks are charged by USB-C but also MagSafe 2. Additionally, some USB-C charged-devices have power bricks permanently integrated into their plug sockets, like the Nintendo Switch. There'll probably be a few people with old USB-A cables, and some people just prefer to use their own power bricks. Generally, older devices will need three-pin. And yes, there'll probably be that one person who tries to bring on a lamp or a toaster.

 

[Noddy]

as an example, the current MacBooks are charged by USB-C but also MagSafe 2.

At the other end of the MagSafe cable is a USB-C connector.

Additionally, some USB-C charged-devices have power bricks permanently integrated into their plug sockets, like the Nintendo Switch.

Which means if anyone is travelling internationally they either travel with their home full size power adaptor and a relevant international adaptor, or just get and travel with a USB-C cable (eg their phone cable) because USB-C PD is (or should be) ubiquitous by the early 2030s.

 

[AM9]

It's typical of RUK threads about non-critical passenger facilities in trains, that some posts edge towards ridiculous demands for niche facilities.

First it was those who couldn't be bothered to fully charge their phones before making long train journeys (or ensure that the phone they had was compatible with their planned usage.​

Then there was those who wanted the railway to provide a mobile office environment with sufficient mains power at every seat to drive and charge a laptop.​

Now they are those who want to travel with high performance gaming laptops, presumably with the associated paraphernalia, sometimes taking up more room than is allocated per passenger.​

Where does it end. Given the now universality of USB C (with PD as appropriate), that is all that is required and indeed is far safer than a 230vac socket. If you have a different connector on a device, either carry an adapter cable or bring your own power source, - don't expect your niche needs to be met on public transport.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

HS2 is intended to start in 2032 - old computers will probably still be in use, and just because laptops are charged by USB-C doesn't mean they may have their own peripheral chargers - as an example, the current MacBooks are charged by USB-C but also MagSafe 2. Additionally, some USB-C charged-devices have power bricks permanently integrated into their plug sockets, like the Nintendo Switch. There'll probably be a few people with old USB-A cables, and some people just prefer to use their own power bricks. Generally, older devices will need three-pin. And yes, there'll probably be that one person who tries to bring on a lamp or a toaster.

Current Macbooks have a Magsafe 3 connector, the cables for which have a standard USB-C plug on the other end. They also have USB-C ports on the laptop itself which can be used for charging instead of the Magsafe port.

Most laptops can charge via USB-C now. USB PD can supply several different voltage / current combinations (it liaises with the device to select the maximum power which the device / charger / cable can all support). Some high end laptops draw quite a lot, but for most laptops 20v / 65w is sufficient. Using multiple-voltage/current chargers is more complicated than a single-voltage USB-A charger.

I would have said that USB-C and 3-pin (which can be in the same face plate) are probably the way to go. Worth noting that 3-pin sockets are fairly robust, especially industrial grade ones. USB-C sockets are more flimsy so there are likely to be far more instances of them getting damaged.

 

[Thirteen]

It'll probably USB-D or USB-E by the time HS2 opens.

 

[Noddy]

It'll probably USB-D or USB-E by the time HS2 opens.

That will be illegal or require new legislation in many states and territories round the world.