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HS2 Class 895s (Hitachi Alstom High-Speed)

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Noddy

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Full spec USB C is, but are these to that spec, or are they the rather more common "USB A with a USB C connector" type provision, i.e. 5V only with limited current more like what a typical power bank will deliver?

Are these real USB sockets or are they just mockups?

High power delivery USB has only been around since 2012 (60w) and 240w since 2021 - most USB sockets on trains predate this. Even the class 800s were tendered and designed during this pre-high power delivery era. Personally, I don’t see a reason to not to abandon the 3-pin (which itself is normally heavily limited compared to a standard household 3-pin) and use higher wattage USB-C instead. By the time these trains come on steam virtually all in service mobile devices will be powered by USB C. All Apple Laptops (which the OP specifically mentioned) are already charged via USB-C (I charge my iphone and MacBook Air using the same cable) so this will be folks expectation, and if the designers/engineers do go down a route of providing a very low wattage version will be met by disappointment.
 
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Bletchleyite

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By the time these trains come on steam virtually all in service mobile devices will be powered by USB C.

I wouldn't bank on that. Wireless charging is more likely - Apple have already pretty much stated that they are going to remove the port entirely within the next couple of iPhone iterations, and like with the headphone socket everyone will follow. This is allowed within the present EU legislation - the rule is basically "if there is a port there must be at least one USB-C", if there is no port that is also legal.

The 3-pin plug by contrast is going nowhere.
 

pokemonsuper9

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I wouldn't bank on that. Wireless charging is more likely - Apple have already pretty much stated that they are going to remove the port entirely within the next couple of iPhone iterations, and like with the headphone socket everyone will follow. This is allowed within the present EU legislation - the rule is basically "if there is a port there must be at least one USB-C", if there is no port that is also legal.
A wire is so much more flexible than wireless charging which requires you to put it in a certain spot rather than within 1.5 metres of one (As per my current wire by my bed).
Wireless charging only would ruin the idea of battery packs entirely, and would make longer days much more difficult.
 

Bletchleyite

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Created a General thread for this as it's getting a bit away from the actual units:

 

vuzzeho

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I will bet fifty pounds the final interior will not have any colour beyond any that is necessary for visual accessibility. The claim that the reason it’s grey and boring at its first public reveal is 4D chess is not worthy of belief by anyone who has been following the rapid decline of ambience in train interiors in Britain.

It really is a horrific, soulless project despite being absolutely necessary. It’s like watching a major sewer being built.
At risk of repeating something that has been said many times - the interior will not be that drab colour. Not 'may not', it will not. The designers have been quite clear that it is to make testers focus on the form of the internal fittings. That also goes for panelling and materials - that will almost certainly change. They understand the gravity of what this train will be - the flagship train of the UK on a global stage, with the backdrop of a chaotic project, the interior should at least be good. The colours and material choice will be dictated by GBR and what they want, when they come in. But I really don't appreciate that last comment - the designers have tried really hard to make it as good as possible despite all the challenges they face - systemic and otherwise. There's good thinking and we're at a very early stage of the process. The proper seats aren't even in the train yet. I'm not sure what you mean by this rapid decline of ambience in train interiors - recent trains (Avanti 805/7, Class 345, GA FLIRTs, 2024 Tube stock, DLR B23 stock, etc) have been nice and a real improvement from trains like the 700 and the 2010s IETs.

Also, the light temperature was nice and warm - somewhere between 2700K and 3000K, if I had to estimate.
 

Bletchleyite

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Also, the light temperature was nice and warm - somewhere between 2700K and 3000K, if I had to estimate.

I believe it has RGB (separate red, green and blue LEDs) like most long haul aircraft do these days, so the colour temperature is just a software matter. I note the ICE4 has this and uses different tones at different times of day, just as aircraft do to create false dusks/dawns to aid sleep.
 

vuzzeho

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I believe it has RGB (separate red, green and blue LEDs) like most long haul aircraft do these days, so the colour temperature is just a software matter. I note the ICE4 has this and uses different tones at different times of day, just as aircraft do to create false dusks/dawns to aid sleep.
Yes, that's right. Additionally, they can be dimmed, and they can be controlled for each half-carriage (for example, half of one carriage can be one colour and the other can be a different colour, if they'd want to do that).
 

Sorcerer

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Yes, that's right. Additionally, they can be dimmed, and they can be controlled for each half-carriage (for example, half of one carriage can be one colour and the other can be a different colour, if they'd want to do that).
Dimming will be a great feature for a long-distance train because if you're going to spend a long journey from London to Scotland or vice versa travelling in darkness, bright dentist lighting will not be bringing you any comfort. I'm glad to see the designers seem to be taking the process very seriously, because the standards of many InterCity trains today aren't quite up to scratch. I would even accept them being on par with the Pendolino and InterCity 225.
 

Bletchleyite

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Dimming will be a great feature for a long-distance train because if you're going to spend a long journey from London to Scotland or vice versa travelling in darkness, bright dentist lighting will not be bringing you any comfort. I'm glad to see the designers seem to be taking the process very seriously, because the standards of many InterCity trains today aren't quite up to scratch. I would even accept them being on par with the Pendolino and InterCity 225.

730s appear to have some sort of auto-dim feature, though they dim during the day and brighten when it's dark, or it appears so.
 

Sorcerer

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730s appear to have some sort of auto-dim feature, though they dim during the day and brighten when it's dark, or it appears so.
So basically we just need the 895s to have this in reverse and/or have it so the train manager can adjust it manually. Even warm lighting provides plenty of visibility though, so we don't exactly need bright lighting when it goes dark outside.
 

RailWonderer

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Dimming will be a great feature for a long-distance train because if you're going to spend a long journey from London to Scotland or vice versa travelling in darkness, bright dentist lighting will not be bringing you any comfort. I'm glad to see the designers seem to be taking the process very seriously, because the standards of many InterCity trains today aren't quite up to scratch. I would even accept them being on par with the Pendolino and InterCity 225.
I think the DfT and GBR heads will have learnt from the mistakes of the IET project and realise that a flagship British train needs a lot more consultations and thought put into it, which we are seeing and is great to see. I'm genuinely excited to travel on one, no matter how dull the journey will be mostly in tunnels and high walled flyovers. All I'd like to see is Swedish X train/ICE wood pannelling to create a modern homely ambience.
 

Sorcerer

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I think the DfT and GBR heads will have learnt from the mistakes of the IET project and realise that a flagship British train needs a lot more consultations and thought put into it, which we are seeing and is great to see. I'm genuinely excited to travel on one, no matter how dull the journey will be mostly in tunnels and high walled flyovers. All I'd like to see is Swedish X train/ICE wood pannelling to create a modern homely ambience.
For the sake of the passenger I truly hope this is the case. I've drawn comparisons to the Frecciarossa 1000 before but they are genuinely nice trains to travel on, so it'd only be right if it's British counterpart could be just as good. I'm liking some of the assurances here though, so for now I remain cautiously optimistic (and I say cautious because pretty much everything about HS2 has been a scaled back disappointment so far, so I hope the trains are spared at least).
 
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My wife (a mobility scooter user) and I went to look at the HS2 mock-ups in Derby and unfortunately found the accessibility a little bit disappointing, despite assurances from the staff that it had been thoroughly tried out with disabled user groups.

Level boarding will only be available at HS2 dedicated stations, with a manual ramp still required anywhere on the 'classic' lines.
Anyone boarding in a wheelchair or mobility scooter via the door on the 'wrong' side has to do an immediate sharp 120 degree turn to do a dog-leg around the accessible toilet, or do a three point turn in the vestibule area. This is exactly the same problem as Voyagers have and makes boarding them with a mobility scooter extremely challenging.

The 'accessible' spaces are up against a solid partition, so difficult to manoeuvre a mobility scooter or chair without rotating rear wheels in and out, and not enough space to turn a scooter around completely. There is at least a flip-up table to give a bit more manoeuvring room, but it's still tight.

There is no direct access from the disabled seats in Standard class to the buffet/catering area.

The bike storage area has no provision for tricycles or other disabled-adapted cycles, though this was probably too much to hope for on any train.

Also, the demonstration 'buggy' area only had space for 1, or maybe 2, very small buggies. Not exactly ample provision.

Although this probably all complies with the appropriate legislation, and is what the government ordered, it's disappointing that the opportunity hasn't been taken to make this a 'best in class' experience for allowing people with disabilities to travel comfortably and independently, especially with an ageing population.
It's not like something much better isn't possible, as Stadler have shown with their units on Greater Anglia.
I expect this is because they design with wheelchairs in mind more than mobility scooters, which are big unwieldy things with poor turning circles and are a nightmare to try and squeeze onto a train at the best of times. Although I have to say I am wheelchair user with an electric chair that can turn on a dime and the vestibules on a voyager are still a tight fit… The legislation is obviously a minimum expected standard and they’ve reached that, and I was never expecting level boarding on legacy stations, so this meets my admittedly quite basic expectations as a disabled traveller.
 

Snow1964

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Might not be the best thread, but the class 895 HS2 thread is closed, and it seemed a bit wide of the posting rules for jobs & careers section as it might lead to speculation.

Looks like Avanti is advertising a job role for integrating HS2 fleet, so appears things are moving forward with trains continuing to North West.

No idea of significance of this now, but suggests ramping up how the fleet will operate over the part built line, although if this includes operating over part or all of HS2 phase 2a is included is unclear.

We are excited to present an opportunity to join the rolling stock team as the Head of Fleet Technical.

The rolling stock team is responsible for working closely with HS2 and the train manufacturer on the new high speed rolling stock that will operate high-speed services, ensuring the design meets our needs as an operator and supports our customer experience vision. Alongside our work on the high-speed fleet, we will develop the wider fleet strategy for integrated services. Our work also includes planning the maintenance servicing and cleaning arrangements to support the fleets.

The Head of Fleet Technical will build on the rolling stock procurement undertaken by HS2 and play a leading role in the delivery of the new high-speed rolling stock, ensuring it meets the needs of the future operator. This role will provide technical expertise, leading from an operator's perspective, on the design, manufacture, testing, commissioning and putting into use of the new rolling stock. The Head of Fleet Technical will support the development of all associated strategies, including depots, servicing, and cleaning to enable new trains to be brought into service. They will manage relationships with stakeholders and collaborate with them to achieve the rolling stock and depot outcomes required to deliver our needs as an operator and to support the customer experience vision.
 

Palmerston

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The Times say the HS2 train contract is in negotiation and the government might want to change train length because 400m is too long for Picadilly. The original article is paywalled but gbnews just report what it says. Not much specific detail.
 

CarrotPie

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The Times say the HS2 train contract is in negotiation and the government might want to change train length because 400m is too long for Picadilly. The original article is paywalled but gbnews just report what it says. Not much specific detail.
Ah yes, GB News, the bastion of unexaggerated, completely trustable journalism.

You can read the original article for free here.

As an aside, HS2's website says that the first train is expected to be completed next year — despite the design not being finalised and the railway unlikely to open for another 5 years or more!
 

Krokodil

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As a result, a range of options is being discussed to change the length of HS2 trains. This could result in them being shortened or made longer — or even being built at two different lengths.

So nothing definite, just that they've acknowledged that 200m units is an issue without Manchester and that there are negotiations in place to do something about it.

Other than changing the whole fleet to match Pendo length, it looks like a mixed fleet is a possibility. 200m units can be used in pairs to Birmingham, and singly on flows like Birmingham-Manchester. Then on Manchester and Scotland Pendo-length units would be used.
 
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D365

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perhaps I’m missing something, but I was under the impression that there was never any intention to procure 400m ’classic compatible’ units.
 

Krokodil

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perhaps I’m missing something, but I was under the impression that there was never any intention to procure 400m ’classic compatible’ units.
The procurement was for 200m units that could be used in pairs (i.e. 400m) on busier routes. But 400m won't fit now that Phase 2 has been canned and single 200m units are too short for those busy flows. So ordering 250m (for example) units to be used singly may be the solution.
 

FrontSideBus

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If they are going to run the new trains on the existing network, wouldn't that mean that they would be forced to run only at 110mph the WCML?
Brand new "high-speed" trains running slower than 25 year old Pendos... hmmmm.
 

Snow1964

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Amending a £2bn contract at this stage sounds like a licence for the train builders to add hundreds of millions to the cost and rip off HS2.

Wonder if it is cheaper to sell some of the 200m trains to operators around Europe, and order replacements that are nearer 250-280m
 

norbitonflyer

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Ah yes, GB News, the bastion of unexaggerated, completely trustable journalism.

You can read the original article for free here.

As an aside, HS2's website says that the first train is expected to be completed next year — despite the design not being finalised and the railway unlikely to open for another 5 years or more!
Since it starts by saying that "the locomotives" are the wrong length I think we can tell how well-informed is the journalist (to use the term loosely) who wrote the article.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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If they are going to run the new trains on the existing network, wouldn't that mean that they would be forced to run only at 110mph the WCML?
Brand new "high-speed" trains running slower than 25 year old Pendos... hmmmm.
At the very least, HS2 trains should be able to use the MU speed profile recently introduced south of Weaver Jn on the WCML for the non-tilt class 805/807.
So 125mph will be achievable in places, but over a much shorter distance than the Pendolinos.
The profile will have to be extended north to Glasgow and on some WCML branches for full benefit.

Another way to solve the length issue is to modify Pendolinos to run on HS2.
ETCS will be required for HS2, but that will also be needed to run on WCML North when it is resignalled.
 

3RDGEN

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HS2 isn't going to be operating until the mid 2030's by which time the 390's will be 35 years old and in need of replacement so the best option now is to rework the 895 order for what remains of HS2 and the replacement of the 390's. It's going to cost money but so does everything on HS2 so what's another billion wasted?
 

Wyrleybart

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Not if they're UK loading gauge. What's the point if they're still too long for Piccadilly?
How about building pendo replacements, because that is effectively what they are.
From what I have been led to believe, the Manchester - Euston expresses were going to become Manchester - Euston expresses, just that they would be 895s and run via HS2. It therefore makes sense to make the 895s the same length as 11 car 390s - shimples
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Amending a £2bn contract at this stage sounds like a licence for the train builders to add hundreds of millions to the cost and rip off HS2.

Wonder if it is cheaper to sell some of the 200m trains to operators around Europe, and order replacements that are nearer 250-280m
As soon as Sunak dumped phase 2 this problem was going to need confronting. One hopes they've not waited till now to open discussions.
 

FrontSideBus

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They should have went with New Pendolino or whatever it is called instead of those Azumas IMO!
 

Mikey C

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As soon as Sunak dumped phase 2 this problem was going to need confronting. One hopes they've not waited till now to open discussions.
What was the original plan before Phase 2 was cancelled, as there was always going to be a period after Phase 1 and indeed Phase 2a of HS2 opened, where trains presumably would have run to the existing Piccadilly platforms?
 

Snow1964

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What was the original plan before Phase 2 was cancelled, as there was always going to be a period after Phase 1 and indeed Phase 2a of HS2 opened, where trains presumably would have run to the existing Piccadilly platforms?
The original plan was for double units London to Birmingham from opening, and was expected the Crewe and East Midlands section would follow within few years allowing double units to these too. Trains running beyond the new line were expected to be single units.

Then once Manchester opened, a second smaller fleet of new units, built to the bigger structure size, and possibly double deck, would have operated the core services. Allowing the initial fleet to operate more services beyond the line to other cities. By the time this extra fleet arrived and Manchester extension opened (originally nearer late 2030s to 2040) the class 390 pendolinos would have been coming up to replacement anyway.

A 200m unit was presumably deemed close enough to a 217m long class 390/0 for 1 for 1 replacement on services to other North west destinations. But cannot ever remember seeing a plan on how the longer 263m class 390/1 services would switch in interim.
 
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