Lord Hendy decides that Advances are the Way Forward

[Cell2025]

Eh there's certainly some pros for using CCST tickets in my experience, for as long as they still exist:

- Just a nice small card to leave on the table, which is preferable for me than having to swipe away whatever app is currently being used on my phone, and finding the right portion in the wallet app. Guard gets to see it immediately rather than waiting, which is probably nice for them.
- In the past couple of years, I've never had to get a railcard out when having my paper ticket checked. That's a nice plus as the Railcard app isn't always the most reliable, and we're back to swiping and waiting. The usage is less obvious to the guard maybe? (of course, I always hold a valid railcard for my journeys).
- It's much quicker being waved through at Piccadilly, rather than waiting for those odd phone-like devices to focus on a barcode. Yes I've got to pick up my ticket, but I'm waiting on the platform anyway, so just pick it up then.

I get it, they're on their way out, but I like using them for now.

On Northern we always had our Two Together card requested (in fact had it out ready as it's every bit as important as the actual tickets) but now they've taken to scanning the actual Railcard itself from within the app as well as viewing/scanning the tickets themselves. I presume that a message has been sent to do this having omitted to scan prior to that.

Unless the software has changed of course, and you couldn't do it beforehand.

 

[Kite159]

On Northern we always had our Two Together card requested (in fact had it out ready as it's every bit as important as the actual tickets) but now they've taken to scanning the actual Railcard itself from within the app as well as viewing/scanning the tickets themselves. I presume that a message has been sent to do this having omitted to scan prior to that.

Unless the software has changed of course, and you couldn't do it beforehand.

Scanning the code reduces the risk of someone trying to cheat the system with changing the expiry date etc

Or buying a fake railcard for a stupidly low figure from someone random on Facebook

 

[Cell2025]

Scanning the code reduces the risk of someone trying to cheat the system with changing the expiry date etc

Or buying a fake railcard for a stupidly low figure from someone random on Facebook

Oh, I have no problem with it. Just mentioning that never having had it scanned before (but always visually inspected) there was a date a few months ago from which it has always been scanned on Northern. New instructions I guess.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Oh, I have no problem with it. Just mentioning that never having had it scanned before (but always visually inspected) there was a date a few months ago from which it has always been scanned on Northern. New instructions I guess.

Or new capabilities (new software and backend services) for the scanning devices.

 

[sheff1]

It seems the thread no longer has much, if anything, to do with the OP now. Still interesting enough mind.

... if you have the ticket at the bottom of a handbag, suitcase, it will be lot longer to take than a phone you inevitably have in hand.

Really ? If I am on train my phone is most likely to be in my jacket pocket or my bag. If I am using a paper ticket it will always be in my pocket. A paper ticket can easily be taken out and immediately handed over for inspection, if the ticket is on my phone I need to navigate to the correct location to display it. If phone is the bag I have to fish it out first and every chance it has somehow found its way to a bottom corner..

 

[jamiearmley]

On Northern we always had our Two Together card requested (in fact had it out ready as it's every bit as important as the actual tickets) but now they've taken to scanning the actual Railcard itself from within the app as well as viewing/scanning the tickets themselves. I presume that a message has been sent to do this having omitted to scan prior to that.

Unless the software has changed of course, and you couldn't do it beforehand.

Our equipment (Northern) doesn't currently have the capacity to scan railcards and return a result . There is a separate app which will do it - however there is no mandate to use it.

There are several other ways to check that a digital Railcard is in fact what it purports to be without scanning it.

I'm intrigued and will investigate further.

 

[Cell2025]

Our equipment (Northern) doesn't currently have the capacity to scan railcards and return a result . There is a separate app which will do it - however there is no mandate to use it.

There are several other ways to check that a digital Railcard is in fact what it purports to be without scanning it.

I'm intrigued and will investigate further.

Interesting. It's definitely happening where it didn't before. It 'peeps' in the same way as scanning a ticket but obviously I have no idea what the screen actually shows. We're off on a trip this weekend so will report back. I bet either they don't get scanned or there's no ticket check after all this

 

[Wallsendmag]

Our equipment (Northern) doesn't currently have the capacity to scan railcards and return a result . There is a separate app which will do it - however there is no mandate to use it.

There are several other ways to check that a digital Railcard is in fact what it purports to be without scanning it.

I'm intrigued and will investigate further.

Don't worry you'll have a decent TIS soon enough

 

[jamiearmley]

Don't worry you'll have a decent TIS soon enough

I'm not worried.

I'm also not holding my breath.

Experience teaches you many things....

 

[Cell2025]

Our equipment (Northern) doesn't currently have the capacity to scan railcards and return a result . There is a separate app which will do it - however there is no mandate to use it.

There are several other ways to check that a digital Railcard is in fact what it purports to be without scanning it.

I'm intrigued and will investigate further.

Didn't have our tickets checked at any stage on Saturday between Bramley West Yorks and Sheffield.

First use of Senior Railcard today and scanned on the BLE to Leeds leg (Northern). Cross Country guard just looked at it, no scanner.

 

[Rail Ranger]

I always print off e-tickets. It's just like having a paper ticket and it's easier for the conductor to scan a piece of paper. Presumably many people don't have printers these days?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always print off e-tickets. It's just like having a paper ticket and it's easier for the conductor to scan a piece of paper. Presumably many people don't have printers these days?

I have a printer and I never print them. Showing it as an Apple Wallet pass is the most convenient way for me to present one.

The strength of the format is that each of us can choose as we prefer.

 

[The exile]

It seems the thread no longer has much, if anything, to do with the OP now. Still interesting enough mind.


Really ? If I am on train my phone is most likely to be in my jacket pocket or my bag. If I am using a paper ticket it will always be in my pocket. A paper ticket can easily be taken out and immediately handed over for inspection, if the ticket is on my phone I need to navigate to the correct location to display it. If phone is the bag I have to fish it out first and every chance it has somehow found its way to a bottom corner..

Indeed - I have yet to see a “normal” ticket check on a phone that is quicker than a “normal” ticket check on ccst. Both on train (where the difference can, tbf, be hardly noticeable) and at barriers.

 

[Hadders]

Indeed - I have yet to see a “normal” ticket check on a phone that is quicker than a “normal” ticket check on ccst. Both on train (where the difference can, tbf, be hardly noticeable) and at barriers.

Are you comparing like with like?

A scan of an e-ticket barcode is faster than clipping a CCST with a Zifa stamp. A cursory glance of an e-ticket takes the same time as a cursory glance of a CCST.

 

[The exile]

I am comparing what I see going on around me in the course of what is usually 4 ticket inspections plus 4 barrier passes every day. So to all intents and purposes yes.

 

[Hadders]

I agree there is more faff at barriers. This could be avoided if people simply got their ticket open on their phone prior to arriving at the barrier. I sometimes see people faffing in their purses for paper tickets, admitedely not as often.

As the network gets busier this is something the TOCs probably need to run a campaign on.

 

[Krokodil]

Are you comparing like with like?

A scan of an e-ticket barcode is faster than clipping a CCST with a Zifa stamp. A cursory glance of an e-ticket takes the same time as a cursory glance of a CCST.

Except that even the biggest nitwits in the country can pull out a physical ticket to show. Granted, they'll probably show me a counted place reservation or the wrong portion first but it's still quicker than me having to navigate a tourist's Trip.com app in a language I don't speak (pretty sure that it was Spanish) to find where the tickets are for her, like I did yesterday. That took some head scratching. Clearly it was too complicated, even for someone who did speak the language.

Move on a few hours and I'm helping a teenager scroll through her emails to find the Trainline one with the attachment.

Granted, when working commuter trains with passengers who know how to work their own apps it's a lot easier, but irregular passengers trying to use eTickets can drive me up the wall.

 

[Hadders]

Except that even the biggest nitwits in the country can pull out a physical ticket to show. Granted, they'll probably show me a counted place reservation or the wrong portion first but it's still quicker than me having to navigate a tourist's Trip.com app in a language I don't speak (pretty sure that it was Spanish) to find where the tickets are for her, like I did yesterday. That took some head scratching. Clearly it was too complicated, even for someone who did speak the language.

Move on a few hours and I'm helping a teenager scroll through her emails to find the Trainline one with the attachment.

Granted, when working commuter trains with passengers who know how to work their own apps it's a lot easier, but irregular passengers trying to use eTickets can drive me up the wall.

I understand that and it must be frustrating, but equally not evey passenger has a paper ticket immediately to hand. They probably do these days, simply because they've become a bit of a niche product, in many cases if you're buying online you have to be savvy enough to know how to get a paper ticket and those sorts of people probably aren't the sort of people who easily misplace a paper ticket.

 

[The exile]

I agree there is more faff at barriers. This could be avoided if people simply got their ticket open on their phone prior to arriving at the barrier. I sometimes see people faffing in their purses for paper tickets, admitedely not as often.

As the network gets busier this is something the TOCs probably need to run a campaign on.

Admittedly the worst offenders are those who stand blocking the barrier while they try to get their ticket. Not actually right up against the barrier, but sufficiently close that getting past could almost qualify as assault (!). Not a ticket problem, I’ll accept, although the ticket they’re looking for is usually on a phone.

 

[Hadders]

Admittedly the worst offenders are those who stand blocking the barrier while they try to get their ticket. Not actually right up against the barrier, but sufficiently close that getting past could almost qualify as assault (!). Not a ticket problem, I’ll accept, although the ticket they’re looking for is usually on a phone.

People faffing at the barriers frustrates the hell out of me!

It is usually people looking on their phones for their ticket these days but that's because most tickets are tickets displayed on mobile phones. Back in the day, it was a problem with paper tickets, especially for leisure travellers. Regular commuters knew the drill.

 

[nwales58]

Unless you are old and doddery you won't have discovered this, yet.

Horizontal scanners pointing upwards can be a cause of delays using phone Aztec codes. You get your ticket ready on the screen in advance, to avoid blocking people as you fumble getting it to recognise your face to unlock wallet. Then you turn the phone upside down so the screen faces the scanner. The phone decides upside down means you've gone to bed and locks again.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The phone decides upside down means you've gone to bed and locks again.

That sounds like a bug in the app showing the code? It should hold the phone awake while the code is displayed.
Edit: I suppose it could be an issue if you are just scanning a PDF file you have loaded from an e-mail and are not showing the code in an app that was specifically designed for scanning codes.

 

[nwales58]

Back on topic, from the perspective of an elderly person, there are good reasons not to be forced to use an advance and to pay a little more for a ticket with some flexibility on a long journey, especially if not on intercity-type trains . For example a train with only 2 toilets both of which become out of use, a long delay for which you are unprepared and need to stop for food and so on.

British advances are particularly bad for a long journeys because they prevent any change. Acceptable if you could have bought a somewhat dearer open ticket but not otherwise.

Compulsory reservation trains do *not* require LNER's approach to fares. I don't object to systems requiring reservations on longer distance trains provided you can change reservation to another train easily. It's a few clicks in some countries. In most countries changing or cancelling a reservation releases your original seat for another passenger. Also paying for reservations, 3 Euro or a few Zloty reduces the problem of 'full' trains with many empty seats.

So advances becoming the norm for all long distance journeys is horrific, but compulsory reservations on busy long distance trains is not for an elderly or slightly handicapped person.

 

[Bletchleyite]

British advances are particularly bad for a long journeys because they prevent any change.

No, they don't. All Advances are changeable for a £10 fee (waived by some sales sites) plus the fare difference, provided this is done before departure time.

 

[Haywain]

Back on topic, from the perspective of an elderly person

Who are these "elderly persons" you are generalising about, or is it just about you? If the lattrr just say that it's personal.

 

[Hadders]

British advances are particularly bad for a long journeys because they prevent any change. Acceptable if you could have bought a somewhat dearer open ticket but not otherwise.

I’m not sure how Asvance fares are different to those I see abroad.

France is often held up as an example of best practice but my experience is that you can only get Advance tickets for the booked train only. These aren’t exactly cheap either. Trying to book a ticket to South West France on a Friday in December makes LNER look like a bargain.

 

[signed]

France is often held up as an example of best practice but my experience is that you can only get Advance tickets for the booked train only. These aren’t exactly cheap either. Trying to book a ticket to South West France on a Friday in December makes LNER look like a bargain.

But you can change it fee-free until 6 days before trip when it becomes 19€ per change. Not being able to change it is rough

 

[Bletchleyite]

But you can change it fee-free until 6 days before trip when it becomes 19€ per change. Not being able to change it is rough

Again, there are no British fares which are non-changeable (aside from a few very occasional special offers, but normally they're just a form of Advance). All Advances are changeable. In airline terms they are a semi-flexible fare. The UK does not offer a non-flexible fare in the standard range.

 

[Cell2025]

Unless you are old and doddery you won't have discovered this, yet.

Horizontal scanners pointing upwards can be a cause of delays using phone Aztec codes. You get your ticket ready on the screen in advance, to avoid blocking people as you fumble getting it to recognise your face to unlock wallet. Then you turn the phone upside down so the screen faces the scanner. The phone decides upside down means you've gone to bed and locks again.

Yup. It's turns into a bit of a game.

 

[signed]

Again, there are no British fares which are non-changeable (aside from a few very occasional special offers, but normally they're just a form of Advance). All Advances are changeable. In airline terms they are a semi-flexible fare. The UK does not offer a non-flexible fare in the standard range.

Interesting, my bad