• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

90019

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2008
Messages
6,890
Location
Featherstone, West Yorkshire
The 24 covered the 47 on Sundays for a while after it had swapped ends with the 42, with the 47 not running on Sundays at all or running West End to Penicuik on an hourly basis. I can’t remember which way round these happened but both scenarios did and the 47 was played about with a lot in those days. I vividly remember the 47 being rerouted via Tollcross happening sometime in 2012 so I’m sure that’s when the Sunday West End to Penicuik runs started. At this time the X47 became the X37. Eventually the 24 stopped running down to the Harbour and the 47 started running the full route hourly.
The 47 rerouting via Tollcross must have been in 2013 because it was definitely using 7900s when it changed.

I remember driving it on the first day of the route change and had to deal with plenty of unhappy passengers who wanted to go down the bridges or along Princes Street, despite being told the bus wasn't going that way.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,010
Location
Edinburgh
The 47 rerouting via Tollcross must have been in 2013 because it was definitely using 7900s when it changed.

I remember driving it on the first day of the route change and had to deal with plenty of unhappy passengers who wanted to go down the bridges or along Princes Street, despite being told the bus wasn't going that way.
I could’ve sworn it was the June 2012 changes that it started running via Tollcross. I remember it being perceived as a trial with opinions wanted on it. Ultimately it was kept. I also remember Darts and Eclipses initially doing the Sunday West End to Penicuik runs. As you say 1-10 did the Sunday 47’s for a while after they were delivered before it became deckers on a Sunday a couple of years later?
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,668
Are there any plans to run deckers on the 12 on a Sunday? The one I'm on has been full and standing from at least Murrayfield until Potterrow. I guess there's no plans for an increased frequency up to every half hour else we'd have seen the traffic registration come through.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,010
Location
Edinburgh
Are there any plans to run deckers on the 12 on a Sunday? The one I'm on has been full and standing from at least Murrayfield until Potterrow. I guess there's no plans for an increased frequency up to every half hour else we'd have seen the traffic registration come through.
I’d expect this is exactly the sort of thing that might change come the September service change. No registrations yet though.

The 12 is so much busier than the old 42 ever was. I can see the current half hourly Monday to Saturday service going up too - probably to every 20 minutes. Wait and see.
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
9,117
I think there is more chance the No12 will go over to decker operation, I have spotted a few deckers on the 12 this past week.

I'm surprised that after 6 weeks we have still not heard anything about this new commercial service via Livingston Village.
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,668
I’d expect this is exactly the sort of thing that might change come the September service change. No registrations yet though.

The 12 is so much busier than the old 42 ever was. I can see the current half hourly Monday to Saturday service going up too - probably to every 20 minutes. Wait and see.
Thanks for the input. What's the word/term for the "target" or desired average capacity or utilisation of a bus or route? As in, a real usage above the target and they'll look at either bigger buses or frequency increase, and a real usage below the target and they'll look at smaller buses or lower frequency.

I hadn't realized the 12 was above the target utilisation during the week as well. In my experience the busyness of an individual journey on the west section depends on how far ahead or behind a 26 or 31 it is. Most of the time most people are getting on or off on the section shared with the 26/31. The section between Drum Brae and Broomhouse is usually well used but certainly not full or crowded. Broomhouse to the Gyle always seems to be fairly quiet in my experience. But I only occasionally use the route so other people may know better.
Are there enough spare single deckers on a weekday to support the 12 going up to every 20 minutes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I think there is more chance the No12 will go over to decker operation, I have spotted a few deckers on the 12 this past week.
I'm not sure if there would be enough deckers to support that and if there are then I would think other routes would be higher priority to get them, maybe the 1?
 

goldisgood

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2018
Messages
445
The 12 is always pretty busy on the central section between Haymarket and Cameron Toll from my experience, probably enough to justify an increase - although the numbers past Cameron Toll are usually pretty low. Agreed with the capacity issues on weekends though, especially in good weather buses towards Portobello are often packed if not leaving people behind. I hope the route sees a frequency increase rather than double deckers, as surely some boards on the 1 or 2 could run with doubles to free up singles if needed?

Then again - many routes are running at capacity, or will be once uni restarts (looking at the 7 and 14 since running with electrics in particular). If resources are as scarce as they were at the last service change there might be some hard choices on where to prioritise any increases.
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,668
If resources are as scarce as they were at the last service change there might be some hard choices on where to prioritise any increases.
I guess it comes down to how aggressively they want to optimize buses. Does Seton Sands to Cockenzie need a bus every 10 minutes? No, probably not. They could probably get away with turning every second 26 back at Levenhall; that ought to free up a couple. Likewise Mayfield - Easthouses - Dalkeith probably doesn't need seven buses an hour. If you cut some number 3s back to Gilmerton that's a saving of at least 25 minutes in each direction so you could definitely save a double of vehicles there.
The 15 could be cut back to Waterloo Place. The 19 could be cut back to Portobello garage.
I'm not saying these are good changes, but if it allows frequency elsewhere to be improved so that passengers aren't getting left behind then in my view it needs to be done.
 

buslad1988

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
651
I guess it comes down to how aggressively they want to optimize buses. Does Seton Sands to Cockenzie need a bus every 10 minutes? No, probably not. They could probably get away with turning every second 26 back at Levenhall; that ought to free up a couple. Likewise Mayfield - Easthouses - Dalkeith probably doesn't need seven buses an hour. If you cut some number 3s back to Gilmerton that's a saving of at least 25 minutes in each direction so you could definitely save a double of vehicles there.
The 15 could be cut back to Waterloo Place. The 19 could be cut back to Portobello garage.
I'm not saying these are good changes, but if it allows frequency elsewhere to be improved so that passengers aren't getting left behind then in my view it needs to be done.
I’m all for improving service - however some of those ideas would be detrimental.

Simplicity is key. Turning 3’s and 26’s short just creates barriers for people wanting to use the bus. Nine times out of ten people take no notice of destinations, they simply see a number and cannot read that buses are part route. Likewise, the more services that don’t have split ends the better (especially when using the same number).

The 19 has gone from strength to strength since its extention to Eastfield - now having a full end to end Evening timetable for example. It really has helped capacity issues to/from Portobello offering an alternative to the 26. With today’s fine weather being a classic example!

The 12 simply is not busy enough after Cameron Toll to justify a frequency uplift (it’s only summer for a few months/weeks of the year) not to mention they got rid of the school duplicates. You also have the problem if you convert it to double deck either something else would need converting to single deck, or a new route created. The single deck rotas are here to stay, thus meaning the quotas will need to (which is also why the 30 hasn’t been converted so far).
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,668
I’m all for improving service - however some of those ideas would be detrimental.
All of them would be detrimental - we're discussing whether they would be less detrimental than leaving frequencies where they are and potentially having more people left behind as buses in other places are full.
 

Auld reekie

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2018
Messages
449
Due to a Terminus closure buses are unable to serve the Hillend Ski centre and will instead terminate on Biggar Road until further notice.
This was an alert on the 4 bus.
No reason given
 

buslad1988

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
651
All of them would be detrimental - we're discussing whether they would be less detrimental than leaving frequencies where they are and potentially having more people left behind as buses in other places are full.
Leaving those services as they are is less detrimental than trying to improve frequencies on marginal routes which don’t warrant it the majority of the time.

Let’s wait and see what happens in September…
 

TheEastCoaster

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,649
Due to a Terminus closure buses are unable to serve the Hillend Ski centre and will instead terminate on Biggar Road until further notice.
This was an alert on the 4 bus.
No reason given

That didn't take long, wonder what happened? Perhaps it was too steep of a road for a service bus?

I’m all for improving service - however some of those ideas would be detrimental.

Simplicity is key. Turning 3’s and 26’s short just creates barriers for people wanting to use the bus. Nine times out of ten people take no notice of destinations, they simply see a number and cannot read that buses are part route. Likewise, the more services that don’t have split ends the better (especially when using the same number).

The 19 has gone from strength to strength since its extention to Eastfield - now having a full end to end Evening timetable for example. It really has helped capacity issues to/from Portobello offering an alternative to the 26. With today’s fine weather being a classic example!

The 12 simply is not busy enough after Cameron Toll to justify a frequency uplift (it’s only summer for a few months/weeks of the year) not to mention they got rid of the school duplicates. You also have the problem if you convert it to double deck either something else would need converting to single deck, or a new route created. The single deck rotas are here to stay, thus meaning the quotas will need to (which is also why the 30 hasn’t been converted so far).

The 12 is by far busier than the 42 ever has been but not by much, I don't see them improving it upon what is already has, which is grateful considering how butchered the 42 was untill it's withdrawal, the 19 extension is one of the better service change ideas in recent years and I'm glad it paid off for the Portobello residents to have an alternative.
 

paravostok

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2025
Messages
79
Location
West Lothian
Does anyone know what Lothian bus 50 is doing? It's near Glasgow Airport for some reason
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2025-08-04-14-08-24-62_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
    Screenshot_2025-08-04-14-08-24-62_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
    271.4 KB · Views: 64

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,797
Location
Edinburgh
934 has a new wrap. It is also on the 3 as well but not registering on bustimes.
 

Attachments

  • 20250804_155708.jpg
    20250804_155708.jpg
    3.7 MB · Views: 126

VioletEclipse

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2018
Messages
1,010
Location
Dùn Èideann
Various of the second batch exist. I was told 752 and 753 are both at Seafield, while there's at least four in Cardonald and another in Perth.
I've heard that the order is rumoured to be 751-800 rather than 751-798, is this true?
For those who haven’t seen, Service 4 is to be extended at Hillend from the current temporary stop at the main road to the Snowsports Centre entrance. This will start from this Sunday (August 3rd). Link here and quoted below.

Good to see this finally happen. The removal of the permanent stop/turning circle at the main road to facilitate the introduction of a junction with lights meant we were stuck with the rather awkward temporary arrangement when the entrance by the road was complete. Interested to see how this impacts the timetable as it doesn’t look to have been factored in. Presumably will come September.
Quite a number of decades too late IMO, but good to see nontheless.

Due to a Terminus closure buses are unable to serve the Hillend Ski centre and will instead terminate on Biggar Road until further notice.
This was an alert on the 4 bus.
No reason given
Well that's no promising. However it seems to be sorted now, whatever this issue was.
The branding on the side will be particularly relevant when its time for it to leave the fleet!
Aye, can't be long now. I doubt that batch are going to last through autumn.
 

CN04NRJ

Established Member
Joined
28 Nov 2019
Messages
1,889
Location
UK
The 36 is moving to Central, and some early and late journeys on the 17/18 will be run by Airlink drivers.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,663
The 36 is moving to Central, and some early and late journeys on the 17/18 will be run by Airlink drivers.
the 36 moving to Central is a strange one considering they were moving routes out of Central with electrification
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,907
Location
Edinburgh
The 36 is moving to Central, and some early and late journeys on the 17/18 will be run by Airlink drivers.
I've heard rumours of the 1 being converted to double deckers, so it would make sense for the 36 to be moved over so that the 2 is not the only single decker route at Central. Again, the 1 changing to double decks is a rumour. However, if the 1 is converted, it still doesn't explain what will happen with the single deckers that will no longer be used on the route.

It'll be interesting to see the changes to the timetable to allow for the 36 to move. Various trips currently end/start at Longstone or Sighthill.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,010
Location
Edinburgh
The 36 is moving to Central, and some early and late journeys on the 17/18 will be run by Airlink drivers.
This makes sense. The first few journeys may as well do this. Not so sure on the evening ones but the early ones absolutely.

36 back to Central after over 10 years. That will feel strange. Can see it increasing to every 20 minutes too. As @Bus9120UK says, the 1 definitely might be deckers come the changes.

Clearly concerns that Longstone will lose work which will need backfilled. I actually think we might see some interesting changes here. Seems geared up for a possible return of the 30 to Musselburgh Grammar with the 46 withdrawn and 48 curtailed back to Fort Kinnaird. 48 up to every 20 minutes but still singles? 38 possibly up as well.

Polton Mill 31’s extended to Rosewell with people doing Dalkeith to Rosewell expected to change in Bonnyrigg? Not sure how you get round the Infirmary connection issue though. 31 so far then change onto 7/18?
 

TheEastCoaster

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,649
It'll be interesting to see the changes to the timetable to allow for the 36 to move. Various trips currently end/start at Longstone or Sighthill.

That's a good point, Either the Longstone journeys get cut back to West End which ends up cutting a good chunk of the journey, or they extend the Longstone journeys to Sighthill and run them back to West End? probably the first option since I'm not sure how overly popular the 36 is in the evening.

Seems geared up for a possible return of the 30 to Musselburgh Grammar with the 46 withdrawn and 48 curtailed back to Fort Kinnaird. 48 up to every 20 minutes but still singles? 38 possibly up as well.

Polton Mill 31’s extended to Rosewell with people doing Dalkeith to Rosewell expected to change in Bonnyrigg? Not sure how you get round the Infirmary connection issue though. 31 so far then change onto 7/18?

At this point, most rumours on this forum have came true, like the Lothian Country citywest farezone scrapped and the Skylines disbandment, so I wouldn't be surprised if this came true.

The 30 going back to Musselburgh could be good news for the locals, would of made the whole thing with the 46/48 be for nothing though.

If the 46 was to get withdrawn and replaced with the 31 then Rosewell could finally have a city service after many years, at this point if folk have to swap services to connect it's nothing new, only other way I could see this working is if they extended the 49 back to Rosewell.

The 48 has been a good successor for the 33 in the Gorebridge area, i would be sad to see it go, hopefully more rumours will pop up, and hopefully nothing too controversial like the 26 leaving Tranent.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,010
Location
Edinburgh
That's a good point, Either the Longstone journeys get cut back to West End which ends up cutting a good chunk of the journey, or they extend the Longstone journeys to Sighthill and run them back to West End? probably the first option since I'm not sure how overly popular the 36 is in the evening.
You both make very good points here. Lothian have consistently added westbound journeys in the evening on the 36 so it will be interesting to see what happens with those. I would expect some dead runs to and from the Gyle as it is now. Sighthill I’m less sure of in terms of dead runs but late evening turnarounds either there or Hermiston Gait which again already exists. I can definitely see some of the early and late ‘garage runs’ that exist partly going with those runs curtailed to start/end at Queensferry Street. The Ocean Terminal start/ends of which there are a few probably kept if not added to.
At this point, most rumours on this forum have came true, like the Lothian Country citywest farezone scrapped and the Skylines disbandment, so I wouldn't be surprised if this came true.

The 30 going back to Musselburgh could be good news for the locals, would of made the whole thing with the 46/48 be for nothing though.

If the 46 was to get withdrawn and replaced with the 31 then Rosewell could finally have a city service after many years, at this point if folk have to swap services to connect it's nothing new, only other way I could see this working is if they extended the 49 back to Rosewell.

The 48 has been a good successor for the 33 in the Gorebridge area, i would be sad to see it go, hopefully more rumours will pop up, and hopefully nothing too controversial like the 26 leaving Tranent.
I’m not saying this will happen but rather that it would be a way to solve the anti social behaviour issues on the 46. The links are all still doable just not directly. Only Danderhall/Sheriffhall would have journeys that possibly require more than 2 buses needed and with respect I can’t see the demand to or from these places for the purpose of the 46’s connections being that much of a problem.

The 48 I’m suggesting would return essentially to its pre covid state. Every 20 minutes Fort Kinnaird to Gorebridge with single decks. I do think there’s a reasonable trade off for Rosewell with the 31 there. Certainly I’d be wanting the 31 over a 46. Though I suspect you’d want both!

The 30 is simply a way of keeping Longstone with enough single deck rotas. Unless Lothian have something even more radical planned!
 

Lothianbus703

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2020
Messages
350
Location
Edinburgh
Could somebody explain the benefits of having seperate single decker rotas and a requirement for them rather than not having rotas dedicated to how many decks a bus has.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,010
Location
Edinburgh
Could somebody explain the benefits of having seperate single decker rotas and a requirement for them rather than not having rotas dedicated to how many decks a bus has.
New drivers always go onto the single deck rota (I think). I’m guessing it’s just a way of gradually adding responsibilities to what are often less experienced staff, depending on if they are brand new drivers or not. The single deck rota is just one large chunk of a bunch of rotas such as what was provided a few pages back with the double deckers:
Indeed this. Most systems simply generate the rotas - however errors can still occur. Everything needs checking; which is why the unions also get involved too.

Apologies if I’m teaching anyone to suck eggs… however just incase anyone didn’t realise, the rota’s aren’t simply double deck and single deck. For example at Marine alone the double deck rotas are made up of the following:

4 day mainline
4 day pool (float)
4 day backshift
5 day mainline
5 day pool (float)
5 day backshift
Splits
Loyalty
Now yes obviously ECB is an obvious point to make. They don’t have a single deck rota so it can work for sure. Instead I think their rotas are done purely on days/times. Any driver no matter how long they have been with ECB can be given any run - except for the NightHawk’s.
 

Top