Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[VioletEclipse]

That's the good thing about these sites and also Flickr is that history can be preserved. Even looking back at your own photos you realise how much has changed

Absolutely! That's part of the reason why I post on flickr. Although, I am not so confident that flickr and these forums will be preserved well, remember the bus forums which seemingly vanished without a trace a few years ago? These forums have been going for over twenty years, but that's sadly no guarantee they'll continue forever. As to flickr, changes in recent years indicate that it's not impossible to think that one day flickr could become closed off to anyone not paying for membership. As far as I'm aware, places such as the internet archive have faced legal challenges in recent years, meaning that it's no guarantee anything on the internet will survive decades or centuries into the future. That's enough pesimissm for now, and there is indeed a chance that folk in 40 years time or more will be easily able to look back on photos and dicussions from the current day just as we do now, which would be a massive help in researching the history of Lothian.

Hello! On the topic of looking back I am gathering resources to make a website which has access to old timetables! I have a lot of stuff from 2017-18 period , Old network maps ( Including X48 [@VioletEclipse You have seen one on my flicker ) And I would like it if you guys could send some onto the wall! only conditions are pdf format please,However I am fine with photos aswell as photos of old designs.

Thanks for taking the time to read this,Post them on this fourm please.

That's a wonderful idea, and would be such a great resource! This online website: https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/Lothian/n-Wk2tPC is incredibly valuable, however there aren't many timetables older than 2013 on it. I do have a few much older timetables, although it might be a good while until I get the time to properly go through them.

Change service 33 back to it old route and too many buses going to clovestone 3 18 20 21 30 33 and give restored service for people who live in kingknowe with service all day

Fully agreed, the change to sending the 33 up past the Napier University was ill advised, and takes a bus away from residents of Parkhead. However there is a seperate thread for discussions of ideas for service changes.

 

[ScotRail158725]

That's a wonderful idea, and would be such a great resource! This online website: https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/Lothian/n-Wk2tPC is incredibly valuable, however there aren't many timetables older than 2013 on it. I do have a few much older timetables, although it might be a good while until I get the time to properly go through them.

Wow never knew this existed! would be great to have it going all the way back but its good to look back to even 2014 haha. I had a quick skim through the 3 timetable on there and the evening service hasn’t changed at all bar 1 or 2 minutes either side of the times now since 2014!

 

[paul47B]

That's the good thing about these sites and also Flickr is that history can be preserved. Even looking back at your own photos you realise how much has changed

I remember Sunday 24s and 47s interworking on a Sunday. 24 would do West Granton to West End then become a 47 to Penicuik. The 47 would do Penicuik to West End, then become a 24 to West Granton

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I remember Sunday 24s and 47s interworking on a Sunday. 24 would do West Granton to West End then become a 47 to Penicuik. The 47 would do Penicuik to West End, then become a 24 to West Granton

I also remember the 24 running to Granton Harbour on Sundays as the 47 didn’t run.

 

[90019]

I remember Sunday 24s and 47s interworking on a Sunday. 24 would do West Granton to West End then become a 47 to Penicuik. The 47 would do Penicuik to West End, then become a 24 to West Granton

I also remember the 24 running to Granton Harbour on Sundays as the 47 didn’t run.

Some of them would then change at Granton and run as a 19 to Restalrig, terminating on Restalrig Road South by the Scotmid, so you had some Sunday boards that were 19/24/47.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Some of them would then change at Granton and run as a 19 to Restalrig, terminating on Restalrig Road South by the Scotmid, so you had some Sunday boards that were 19/24/47.

Ah yes I remember those. Darts usually. 19’s screened Lochend for those. Lasted quite a while.

 

[Siemens Trains]

The 44 and 45 at Juniper Green used to use Juniper Ave, Belmont Rd and Baberton Ave to turn before they were extended.

If I remember rightly a bus stop flag remains on Juniper Avenue, although I can't imagine any routes service it these days. The Baberton Avenue stop and both on Belmont Road have disappeared.
Nowadays it might be quite awkward for a bus to stand at the former Lanark Road terminus outside the butcher, as most of the layby was filled in. Actually the butcher shop isn't there any more either.

 

[NorthEastern]

The 44 and 45 at Juniper Green used to use Juniper Ave, Belmont Rd and Baberton Ave to turn before they were extended.

And I think the old 46, as well, back in the 1970s. It was a single decker and mostly followed the 45 route but went differently through the city centre IIRC

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2025 ==

And I think the old 46, as well, back in the 1970s. It was a single decker and mostly followed the 45 route but went differently through the city centre IIRC

And at the Portobello end, the 45 (and maybe the former 46) used to run along East Brighton Crescent and terminate at Lee Crescent, before starting its journey back to Juniper Green.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2025 ==

Absolutely! That's part of the reason why I post on flickr. Although, I am not so confident that flickr and these forums will be preserved well, remember the bus forums which seemingly vanished without a trace a few years ago? These forums have been going for over twenty years, but that's sadly no guarantee they'll continue forever. As to flickr, changes in recent years indicate that it's not impossible to think that one day flickr could become closed off to anyone not paying for membership. As far as I'm aware, places such as the internet archive have faced legal challenges in recent years, meaning that it's no guarantee anything on the internet will survive decades or centuries into the future. That's enough pesimissm for now, and there is indeed a chance that folk in 40 years time or more will be easily able to look back on photos and dicussions from the current day just as we do now, which would be a massive help in researching the history of Lothian.

That's a wonderful idea, and would be such a great resource! This online website: https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/Lothian/n-Wk2tPC is incredibly valuable, however there aren't many timetables older than 2013 on it. I do have a few much older timetables, although it might be a good while until I get the time to properly go through them.

Fully agreed, the change to sending the 33 up past the Napier University was ill advised, and takes a bus away from residents of Parkhead. However there is a seperate thread for discussions of ideas for service changes.

These forums have been going for over twenty years, but that's sadly no guarantee they'll continue forever.

Aren’t old versions of webpages available forever on Onion browsers or something?

 

[stevenedin]

698 appears to be back at Central and 752 is now tracking on bus times.

 

[Lothianbus703]

698 appears to be back at Central and 752 is now tracking on bus times.

373 swapped from Central to replace 698 at Marine.

 

[Willie622]

Anymore news about the new service changes planned for September 2025 including Lothian country

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Anymore news about the new service changes planned for September 2025 including Lothian country

No, but I’m sure once registrations start to appear it will flood this page very quickly.

 

[Baileygirl]

Anymore news about the new service changes planned for September 2025 including Lothian country

Can't see much change in West Lothian as only 9 spare buses at Deans. How many buses do they need for maintenance/breakdowns? Are there any more due to be transferred?

 

[stevenedin]

Can't see much change in West Lothian as only 9 spare buses at Deans. How many buses do they need for maintenance/breakdowns? Are there any more due to be transferred?

There is a potential got 841-850 & 929 to return making it 20 spare also there is 938, 940 and 944 which could be used as well.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

There is a potential got 841-850 & 929 to return making it 20 spare also there is 938, 940 and 944 which could be used as well.

Either all of the Gemini or the 8 currently known redundant/planned to be ex Airlink Gemini2’s (937-945) will probably go. I can’t see it being both. 464 may yet replace 936 or even be an extra. We will see.

Given the fact all of 841-850 have now been removed I would think their days may be numbered after all. Whatever was planned has definitely changed somewhat. The sudden removal of 843, 844 and 850 would tell you this. Well after the last of the planner 66 plates went across.

502 is back from Thornton’s. I don’t think it will be long at all before it’s out as it just needs to be given vinyls. It went to VOSA down there. 502 could replace any one of the Gemini2’s, including a white example, but probably not something in the 946-950 range.

I am hopeful we will see the remaining vehicles from the first batch of BZL’s hit the road from Monday. This will give us some pretty useful clues depending on what is removed. 496 to ECB? 933? Something else? Who knows.

373 swapped from Central to replace 698 at Marine.

This will be temporary again. 675 is back so that’s probably expected to replace 373.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I am hopeful we will see the remaining vehicles from the first batch of BZL’s hit the road from Monday.

I saw a BZL heading east on the A1 at Newcraighall then west on the city bypass today, but it had no fleet numbers that I could see and I don't remember the registration plate.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I saw a BZL heading east on the A1 at Newcraighall then west on the city bypass today, but it had no fleet numbers that I could see and I don't remember the registration plate.

You probably saw 730e heading to Volvo. Not sure why it took that route.

 

[overthewater]

No, but I’m sure once registrations start to appear it will flood this page very quickly.

Ever since certain back office operations went to Leeds it's been a complete shambles at Vosa when dealing with the Scottish registration. It may will be the fact we will find out from Lothian quicker, before being approved by Vosa.

Can't see much change in West Lothian as only 9 spare buses at Deans. How many buses do they need for maintenance/breakdowns? Are there any more due to be transferred?

I know this is a flash point but I think if we were to be realistic we would only be looking a small increase in the fleet, Ie maybe 3-5 extra buses at most. Until everything has been sorted we wont know if extra buses will be transferred in.

 

[Lothian285]

Lothian Motorcoaches have acquired at least one new coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/david.../feed-66235640-1753885721-1-72157721773342503

 

[VioletEclipse]

698 appears to be back at Central and 752 is now tracking on bus times.

752 already tracking? I doubt it actually exists yet, but I might well be proven wrong on this!

Lothian Motorcoaches have acquired at least one new coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/david.../feed-66235640-1753885721-1-72157721773342503

Apparently it's been given the fleet number 9301 accoring to folk on flickr. This was entirely unannounced on here, which is a rarity for a new vehichle these days!

 

[Bus9120UK]

752 already tracking? I doubt it actually exists yet, but I might well be proven wrong on this!

Apparently it's been given the fleet number 9301 accoring to folk on flickr. This was entirely unannounced on here, which is a rarity for a new vehichle these days!

Various of the second batch exist. I was told 752 and 753 are both at Seafield, while there's at least four in Cardonald and another in Perth.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Apparently it's been given the fleet number 9301 accoring to folk on flickr. This was entirely unannounced on here, which is a rarity for a new vehichle these days!

Unsubstantiated but I've also heard that some Volvo B8R / MCV EvoTor coaches are due for MotorCoaches.

 

[NorthEastern]

Spott Road Dunbar closed due to bridge strike. 120 and X7 diverted.

Busy East Lothian road closed and trains delayed as lorry crashes into bridge

Motorists can be seen standing on the road having been forced to stop behind the lorry. Lothian confirmed both the 120 and X7 are using an alternative route until the road reopens

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I do think something needs to be done about the Clovenstone situation. Whether or not you even need the 33 is another question. Without wishing to be speculative I’d suggest it’s theoretically possible for it to be replaced by alternative services. A good topic that I may come with an idea in said thread.

if someone can move this into the speculation forum that would be ideal!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

For those who haven’t seen, Service 4 is to be extended at Hillend from the current temporary stop at the main road to the Snowsports Centre entrance. This will start from this Sunday (August 3rd). Link here and quoted below.

Lothian Service 4 extended to serve Midlothian Snowsports Centre​

July 31, 2025

Following the completion of works in the area, Lothian’s Service 4 has now been extended to serve the Midlothian Snowsports Centre in Hillend, bringing visitors right to the main entrance of the facility.
From Sunday 3 August, Lothian’s Service 4 will now serve a stop outside of the Snowsports Centre, making the venue more accessible via public transport, and making it even easier to travel to the centre from the city.
Home to Scotland’s only Alpine Coaster and one of the country’s most popular dry skiing and snowboarding slopes, the centre attracts thousands of visitors each week.
Thanks to a partnership between Lothian, Midlothian Council and the Snowsports Centre, road widening and resurfacing works took place to enable easier access for Lothian’s buses to serve the centre.
Keith Finlay, Head of Commercial for Lothian said: “We are pleased to announce the extension of Service 4 to the Snowsports Centre at Hillend. This improvement will provide easier access to the centre by public transport, enabling more visitors to enjoy the wide range of excellent activities on offer.”
Midlothian Council’s Cabinet Member for Transport, Councillor Colin Cassidy, said: “This is fantastic news for visitors to the Midlothian Snowsports Centre. Thanks to the newly widened and resurfaced road, the No 4 bus can now drop passengers right at the main entrance, making it easier than ever to get here by public transport. We’re excited to welcome even more visitors from Edinburgh and beyond to enjoy Scotland’s only Alpine Coaster, one of Europe’s longest dry ski and snowboarding slopes, our tubing, fun slope and everything else the centre has to offer. Please come and make a day of it.”

Good to see this finally happen. The removal of the permanent stop/turning circle at the main road to facilitate the introduction of a junction with lights meant we were stuck with the rather awkward temporary arrangement when the entrance by the road was complete. Interested to see how this impacts the timetable as it doesn’t look to have been factored in. Presumably will come September.

 

[CSB0241]

I remember the bus war and child fares were something like 20p on First.

I read whilst fumbling in my wallet for £1.10.

I do miss having a variety of operators in Edinburgh. Now it is mostly Lothian with very few other operators (Borders Buses, Midland Bluebird, Bright Bus, Big Bus, Stagecoach, Ember, Flixbus, Citylink, National Express..).

The most competition Lothian really have nowadays is McGills (X19vsX38 & AirXvs100 - could consider the 60 as competition to the 2 but that would be a wild stretch) or Borders (253vsX7). Otherwise, Lothian practically have a stranglehold on Edinburgh’s buses, which I suppose is better for tickets & stuff, but there isn’t much variety unless you are to view the Stagecoach Fife Express routes as competition to the 43 or the X62 to the 47… I could go on.

The link road was built to replace Baberton Mains Terrace, the original northern access into Baberton, which was severed when the Sighthill section of the city bypass was built in 1985-86.

Slightly off-topic but whereabouts did Baberton Mains Terrace connect onto Wester Hailes Road? Was there just a conventional crossroads at what is now the junction for Harvesters Way?

MORNINGSIDE (Balcarres Street) 23 terminus still exists I think but with retirement flats alongside, if I am thinking of the right spot. I haven't been along there for a while.

I stay a short walk from Morningside Turning Circle (have done nearly all my life), it remains practically untouched compared to the days of the old 41 runs to Craighouse.

That's a wonderful idea, and would be such a great resource! This online website: https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/Lothian/n-Wk2tPC is incredibly valuable, however there aren't many timetables older than 2013 on it.

Ah RailwayMedia… I’ve always thought it was really useful, I was gonna recommend it aswell. I made a script for a small documentary I wanted to make about Skylink that never came to fruition, & being able to scan through all of the timetables for the 200/300/400 was super useful.

I also remember the 24 running to Granton Harbour on Sundays as the 47 didn’t run.

Did the 38 not do that too briefly or am I making that up?

Lothian Motorcoaches have acquired at least one new coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/david.../feed-66235640-1753885721-1-72157721773342503

Well, I can’t say a Scania Interlink would’ve been my first guess for a new LMC coach, Evotors feel like a safer bet.

Apparently it's been given the fleet number 9301 accoring to folk on flickr. This was entirely unannounced on here, which is a rarity for a new vehichle these days!

I hate the fleet numbering scheme with Eve & LMC, there’s now not only Exx buses with LMC & 9xxxs with Eve, but with Motorcoaches they go up to the next 9x01 whenever there’s a coach of a different make. I won’t whitter on too much about fleet numbering stuff, but I do think that Lothian’s current system does need slightly improved (another example; the fact that 1051-1062 aren’t numbered 519-530 always bugs me, even if they were 1051-1062 before 20001-8 were 511-8)

Unsubstantiated but I've also heard that some Volvo B8R / MCV EvoTor coaches are due for MotorCoaches.

That doesn’t shock me.

For those who haven’t seen, Service 4 is to be extended at Hillend from the current temporary stop at the main road to the Snowsports Centre entrance. This will start from this Sunday (August 3rd). Link here and quoted below.

Good to see this finally happen. The removal of the permanent stop/turning circle at the main road to facilitate the introduction of a junction with lights meant we were stuck with the rather awkward temporary arrangement when the entrance by the road was complete. Interested to see how this impacts the timetable as it doesn’t look to have been factored in. Presumably will come September.

Here’s to hoping they can (in some capacity) improve reliability on the route with this, perhaps this could warrant adding another bus onto the route to increase layovers & reduce delays.

 

[DunsBus]

Slightly off-topic but whereabouts did Baberton Mains Terrace connect onto Wester Hailes Road? Was there just a conventional crossroads at what is now the junction for Harvesters Way?

This is Baberton Mains Terrace from the western end.

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Explore a place in a more immersive way in Google Maps.

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It now comes to a stop at the embankment carrying the city bypass, but originally ran through to Wester Hailes Road and meeting it just up from where Harvesters Way is now.

Baberton Mains Terrace was one of two accesses from Wester Hailes Road when the scheme was built. The other one was, and still is Baberton Mains Loan.

 

[scosutsut]

Lothian Motorcoaches have acquired at least one new coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/david.../feed-66235640-1753885721-1-72157721773342503

Surely just a demonstrator?

 

[90019]

Did the 38 not do that too briefly or am I making that up?

The 38 used to terminate on the west side of Granton Square.
I think it was around the mid 2010s that it was cut back to West Granton, but I'm not sure exactly when.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 38 used to terminate on the west side of Granton Square.
I think it was around the mid 2010s that it was cut back to West Granton, but I'm not sure exactly when.

I’m sure the 38 also did Granton Harbour as a terminus for a while.

If memory serves me correctly you had both the 38 and 47 serving the Waterfront before terminating at Granton Square. This started when the 47 was introduced in 2006? The 47 replacing the 37A? The 38 was rerouted away from Muirhouse down to Granton Square about 2007/8. I think about 2009/10 this was changed to terminate at the now old Granton Harbour terminus on Hesperus Crossway. Throughout all of this you had the old 17 running between Drylaw and Craighouse before it was withdrawn sometime around 2009.

The 24 covered the 47 on Sundays for a while after it had swapped ends with the 42, with the 47 not running on Sundays at all or running West End to Penicuik on an hourly basis. I can’t remember which way round these happened but both scenarios did and the 47 was played about with a lot in those days. I vividly remember the 47 being rerouted via Tollcross happening sometime in 2012 so I’m sure that’s when the Sunday West End to Penicuik runs started. At this time the X47 became the X37. Eventually the 24 stopped running down to the Harbour and the 47 started running the full route hourly.

Ultimately the 38 was cut back to West Granton - unreliability increased the running time of each trip. Initially it was cut back on Sundays before being cut back completely. I think this happened from about 2013 in two phases.

It largely remained untouched like for years before construction work moved the terminus to Oxcraig Street. When that finished, the terminus wasn’t changed back. The 22 of course would replace the 47 in 2023 with the 9 rerouted a change after its introduction.

The Waterfront was meant to be effectively a suburb in its own right. Self functioning. It became a total white elephant due to the financial crisis. Most of what was planned was never built. The tram line through the area never happened too. A lot of the area remains abandoned. Most of Caroline Park was flattened for this project, with hindsight for what reason? Eerily the bus stops still reference Caroline Park to this day as the streets remain, just. The shops by the bottom of Crewe Road North were closed down for the same reason, though one Terry’s never shut until the chap retired and it became a polish supermarket. A small amount of housing was added from Waterfront Avenue much later, and it’s been very sparsely added to.

Don’t think I’ve got this all bang on, but something close to it.