Fantasy: Major Infrastructure with Zero Chance of being Built

[gc4946]

Extend HS2 from Birmingham Airport south-west mostly following the M42 connecting with the Birmingham-Cheltenham line south of Bromsgrove.
Build link between HS1 and HS2 as originally planned.
Reinstate March-Spalding line with loading gauge profile to handle the largest containers as an alternative to sending traffic via Peterborough to/from Felixstowe.

 

[JohnElliott]

For tube lines with substantial surface elements that were built to the standard loading gauge, bore the tunnels out to the larger size (or replace the tunnelled sections with new crossrails)

 

[Haribolover06]

Forfar "High Speed Line" From Dundee to Laurencekirk 125mph+ to speed up journeys between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, adding new station at Briechin and Forfar, one of Scotlands larger towns without a rail connection, route broadly following A90 which is a pretty straight alignment (35 miles approximately) could curve around dundee or a tunnel through centre of dundee joining station, of course with overhead electrification too.

 

[Topological]

Extend HS2 from Birmingham Airport south-west mostly following the M42 connecting with the Birmingham-Cheltenham line south of Bromsgrove.
Build link between HS1 and HS2 as originally planned.
Reinstate March-Spalding line with loading gauge profile to handle the largest containers as an alternative to sending traffic via Peterborough to/from Felixstowe.

All fully plausible.

Would that mean trains from Worcester to London on HS2? Might even make Cotswold Designer Village competitive with Bicester for journey times to London by rail.

I can see that the March-Spalding works for trains headed up the ECML, but presumably trains bound for Syston would still need to go through Peterborough?

 

[Magdalia]

einstate March-Spalding line with loading gauge profile to handle the largest containers as an alternative to sending traffic via Peterborough to/from Felixstowe.

Definitely zero chance of that. The Werrington diveunder makes it superfluous, and there is the small matter of Whitemoor prison being in the way.

 

[gc4946]

Dedicated freight route from Southampton to Didcot using the former Didcot, Newbury & Southampton Railway trackbed north of Winchester with underpasses at Newbury and Didcot onto line towards Oxford.
Also freight route built to Berne gauge branching off HS1 on the route of the proposed Lower Thames road crossing, going parallel around the M25 and following the M1 to Daventry International Rail Freight Terminal (DIRFT)

​

 

[The Ham]

The LTC as a rational concept is very sensible. The Dartford Crossing is massively overloaded and building an alternative crossing is very sensible. Whether it's worth what it looks like costing is a different question.

Although, the issue is the lack of capacity beyond the LTC (for example through Kent) and so either you've got to build more roads (as there's already issues - see operation stack, which would have to happen more often if more traffic can get into Kent).

I guess this is where I float my 505kph GB Metro.

Japanese SCMaglev trains running 12 trains per hour or so on a single stopping pattern, running from Cambourne to Aberdeen via Cardiff and London.
Turn up and go.
I assumed acceleration like a tube train to allow standing, but the actual Japanese trains accelerate substantially faster than that.

View attachment 185291

Journey times above in minutes, assuming a ~60 second dwell at each stop.
Average wait time about 150 seconds.

The track would have no pointwork moved in normal operation, with balloon loops provided in Aberdeen and Cambourne. Probably a couple provided in the middle of the line to allow for partial maintenance outages. This allows the high intensity despite the slow movement of maglev pointwork. Trains would be injected from one or two depots at the start of service and removed at the end of service, and other than with faulty trains no pointwork would move all day.

The extreme speed (a kilometre in about seven seconds) means the indirect route still absolutely crushes most journeys you can think of.

EDIT:
Fixed a pair of Typos! I've left the original attached.

Cornwall to Scotland in less time than the current Plymouth to London journey time.

Every conurbation in the UK with a population over 250,000 to have a fully automated 24hr metro network which would relieve pressure on city centre terminals allowing a large increase in inter-urban and inter city services. Copenhagen shows what can be done.

Whilst others have rightly pointed out that this works have significant costs to run, there are significant benefits.

For example, even if all public transport costs doubled due to extra capacity the cost to each tax payer would be £2,000 per year, this compares with the average cost of car ownership being over £3,600. Therefore, for a lot of people if extra taxes were to find a much improved public transport system it would cost them less than owning a car.

However, even if the current model was used, the amount of delays would be significantly reduced. There could also be significantly more development with urban areas due to not requiring such a large land take for parking of cars.

That would also mean less need for suburban sprawl into the countryside.

With fairly dense cities walking and cycling becomes more viable to more people, further reducing the need to own a car.

Please note, cars will still exist, it's just that there would be a need for less of them, for example car club cars for those within the cities and using park and cycle/ride/rail services to get into the urban area for those from further out.

 

[Falcon1200]

In order to properly serve Glasgow Airport by public transport, with the side benefit of preventing it becoming eclipsed by Edinburgh Airport; A horseshoe-shaped line from Glasgow Central to the Airport, then tunnel under the Clyde and back to Glasgow Queen Street, providing both termini with direct trains to the Airport.

 

[JKF]

Definitely zero chance of that. The Werrington diveunder makes it superfluous, and there is the small matter of Whitemoor prison being in the way.

That and about 50 level crossings which the ORR might have some concerns about!

Which, on the subject, how about build a level crossing over Quays Avenue so Portishead station can be sited near the town centre making it an attractive destination for inbound visitors? Impossible! Computer says no! Beyond the capability of human innovation, can never happen.

 

[fishwomp]

Definitely zero chance of that. The Werrington diveunder makes it superfluous, and there is the small matter of Whitemoor prison being in the way.

So, a realignment over the first 0.5 miles to follow the western perimeter of the prison or to the adjacent open fields could be done. I think this small matter is an actual small matter ..!

 

[Magdalia]

So, a realignment over the first 0.5 miles to follow the western perimeter of the prison or to the adjacent open fields could be done. I think this small matter is an actual small matter ..!

HMP Whitemoor is a category A high security prison housing around 500 of the UK's most dangerous members of the prison population. It is a big site, part of which is on the alignment of the March-Spalding line. Whether it is physically possible is irrelevant, there is zero chance of the line being reinstated because of the location and status of the prison.

 

[fishwomp]

HMP Whitemoor is a category A high security prison housing around 500 of the UK's most dangerous members of the prison population. It is a big site, part of which is on the alignment of the March-Spalding line. Whether it is physically possible is irrelevant, there is zero chance of the line being reinstated because of the location and status of the prison.

Nonsense. Why does an adjacent railway make any difference to the prison? Manchester and Wakefield are category A near city-centre prisons. Wakefield is 100 yards from the ticket office at Westgate, and only 50 from the platforms - couldn't they dig a tunnel and pop up to get a Day Rover and escape?

 

[Bald Rick]

Wakefield is 100 yards from the ticket office at Westgate, and only 50 from the platforms - couldn't they dig a tunnel and pop up to get a Day Rover and escape?

The prisoners or the residents of Wakefield more generally?

 

[D6130]

Whether it is physically possible is irrelevant, there is zero chance of the line being reinstated because of the location and status of the prison.

....not to mention the millions of level crossings that would have to be reinstated!

 

[Magdalia]

Nonsense. Why does an adjacent railway make any difference to the prison? Manchester and Wakefield are category A near city-centre prisons. Wakefield is 100 yards from the ticket office at Westgate, and only 50 from the platforms - couldn't they dig a tunnel and pop up to get a Day Rover and escape?

Comparisons with other prisons are not relevant. Whitemoor prison is there, and the railway isn't. There is zero chance of building a railway there that serves no purpose.

 

[HSTEd]

Cornwall to Scotland in less time than the current Plymouth to London journey time.

Aberdeen to Cardiff in the time it takes for the train to get to Edinburgh today!

The limited by passenger comfort acceleration and high top speeds allow Maglev technologies to deliver some truly astonishing performance.

Whatever you think about HS2, that line would remake Britain

 

[JamesT]

Aberdeen to Cardiff in the time it takes for the train to get to Edinburgh today!

The limited by passenger comfort acceleration and high top speeds allow Maglev technologies to deliver some truly astonishing performance.

Whatever you think about HS2, that line would remake Britain

Though you choose to miss out the second and third largest population centres in the UK with this plan? (And only graze the outskirts of the largest)

 

[d70g]

In order to properly serve Glasgow Airport by public transport, with the side benefit of preventing it becoming eclipsed by Edinburgh Airport; A horseshoe-shaped line from Glasgow Central to the Airport, then tunnel under the Clyde and back to Glasgow Queen Street, providing both termini with direct trains to the Airport.

Or, for nearly half the price, Airport to Queen St via Central

 

[HSTEd]

Though you choose to miss out the second and third largest population centres in the UK with this plan? (And only graze the outskirts of the largest)

I did the timing work some time ago. My rationale for not going to Birmingham was that HS2 already got a huge journey time reduction from London, so just wanted to connect with it at OOC.
Maglev could undoubtedly beat HS2, but probably not crushingly so.

OOC is probably going to develop into a superhub and has much less underground construction to avoid than the likes of Euston. Especially as this project makes an Overground hub there functionally inevitable.

Avoiding Manchester was based on phase 2A or NPR happening, I might route somewhat differently now but I don't know for sure. It's a big kink in the alignment and branches have issues for maglev because of the slow operation of pointwork.

Manchester-Bletchley (or OOC!) and Manchester-Leeds are the likely connections there.

 

[aron2smith]

Splendid to see people recognising that there is zero chance of this!

It's very sad that something as essential as removing the bottlenecks on the ECML, especially at the viaduct in Welwyn is seen as impossible/ improbable. This one section would allow for such a massive increase in trains from London to the north and Scotland that domestic flights would finally be unviable, especially if combined with even a small line speed increase to say 150mph London to Edinburgh.

If we are serious as a country about climate change and sustainable measures such as modal shift towards trains (passenger and freight) and all public transport. Where's the vision? Where's the strategic long term plan? And if the government can't even be bothered to sort out Ely Junction and Haughley Junction, no wonder there's no hope. But it is pathetic at the same time. It's like we as a country gave up on any sense of ambition.

 

[Magdalia]

This one section would allow for such a massive increase in trains from London to the north and Scotland

No it would not. The capacity constraint would just move to Kings Cross. There is no point running more trains through Welwyn if there are no platforms for them when they get to London.

 

[Topological]

It's very sad that something as essential as removing the bottlenecks on the ECML, especially at the viaduct in Welwyn is seen as impossible/ improbable. This one section would allow for such a massive increase in trains from London to the north and Scotland that domestic flights would finally be unviable, especially if combined with even a small line speed increase to say 150mph London to Edinburgh.

If we are serious as a country about climate change and sustainable measures such as modal shift towards trains (passenger and freight) and all public transport. Where's the vision? Where's the strategic long term plan? And if the government can't even be bothered to sort out Ely Junction and Haughley Junction, no wonder there's no hope. But it is pathetic at the same time. It's like we as a country gave up on any sense of ambition.

Wasn't that the motivation for the Eastern leg of HS2?

I would have thought the HS2 option is still preferable to more tracks at Welwyn given what @Magdalia rightly says about Kings Cross capacity.

Of course we are building Euston with constraints and foolishly omitting much of the HS2 network, but this is the UK.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's very sad that something as essential as removing the bottlenecks on the ECML, especially at the viaduct in Welwyn is seen as impossible/ improbable. This one section would allow for such a massive increase in trains from London to the north and Scotland…

How many extra trains to the north snd Scotland could be operated with the doubling of Welwyn viaduct and tunnels?

If your answer is more than “0” you will need to show your working…

 

[aron2smith]

How many extra trains to the north snd Scotland could be operated with the doubling of Welwyn viaduct and tunnels?

If your answer is more than “0” you will need to show your working…

I'm not an engineer but you'd obviously expand stations, put in expansions of track further up the line, bypasses in strategic locations etc. Like this is supposed to be a speculative thread and a lot of the ideas I've seen here are actually really good. To then say it can NEVER happen, just where's our imagination and ambition? Even if what I said was wrong, the point is we need to massively expand our rail capacity, passenger and freight. I wish people instead of saying something can't happen, how about how can we make it happen?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

Wasn't that the motivation for the Eastern leg of HS2?

I would have thought the HS2 option is still preferable to more tracks at Welwyn given what @Magdalia rightly says about Kings Cross capacity.

Of course we are building Euston with constraints and foolishly omitting much of the HS2 network, but this is the UK.

I'd say so at least in part, that's what makes that sorry story so annoying. Had our government stuck with the original plan for HS2, it would've transformed the country massively in the long run, probably in ways we can't imagine yet. The lack of future proofing is very frustrating, especially as a whole area around Euston was demolished for this, so lets do it properly! At least in Birmingham, it was already a mostly abandoned area. But really they started at the wrong end of the country.

 

[daodao]

@aron2smith

Sunak made a wise decision in October 2023 to cancel HS2 Phase 2b, with its expensive tunnelled section into Central Manchester just to support 3tph from London, which the UK can no longer afford given its dire economic position. I admire him for having had the bravery to announce it in Manchester Central.

 

[Pete_uk]

Second twin bore Severn Tunnel

 

[mike57]

I hate to say this but just about any upgrade/new construction beyond those already in progress could go on this list given the current economic situation and the current political landscape.

No doubt some smaller scale projects will go ahead, but anything beyond that has been killed off by a combination of the HS2 fiasco and economic uncertainty.

My own contenders would be Welwyn 4 tracking, probably the biggest bottle neck remaining on the southern end of the ECML. and HS1 HS2 link which seems like an opportunity missed for a domestic high speed Midlands - Cross London - SE services, and possibly longer tem a second North of London International terminal.

 

[The Ham]

@aron2smith

Sunak made a wise decision in October 2023 to cancel HS2 Phase 2b, with its expensive tunnelled section into Central Manchester just to support 3tph from London, which the UK can no longer afford given its dire economic position. I admire him for having had the bravery to announce it in Manchester Central.

What dire economic position?

The economic report used to justify austerity had been found to be flawed.

In addition, there's a big difference between capital spending (which drives economic growth) and day to day growth. As such, arguably, cutting capital spending is actually the issue causing slow growth in the economy.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm not an engineer but you'd obviously expand stations, put in expansions of track further up the line, bypasses in strategic locations etc. Like this is supposed to be a speculative thread and a lot of the ideas I've seen here are actually really good. To then say it can NEVER happen, just where's our imagination and ambition? Even if what I said was wrong, the point is we need to massively expand our rail capacity, passenger and freight. I wish people instead of saying something can't happen, how about how can we make it happen?

I’m not saying it will never happen; just that on its own doubling Welwyn viaduct / tunnels provides zero long distance capacity.

 

[Falcon1200]

Or, for nearly half the price, Airport to Queen St via Central

A good idea too, although my proposal would envisage taking over the Maryhill line, so that Airport trains would use Queen St High Level for easy interchange. Not that either plan is ever likely to happen however!