2 mainline steam tours fail yesterday how unlucky.

[Dave S 56F]

I just wanted to add to the mainline steam tours updates:
Yesterday I went on a steam dreams tour 23 july commencing at King's X to York return I joined the tour at London after getting a N.X. Coach from leeds to Sheffield and the early 04:48am E.M.T. to st Pancras in and had planned to alight on the return at Huntingdon however it dident go according to plan I had booked in premier dining as well at a cost of £320 which made me infuriated after what happened 70000 Britannia riddles 7mt ran a hot big end after been stopped at Fletton jct outside Peterborough for a Waterstop all of a sudden a steward announced to everyone on the S.D. tour 70000 britannia was failed and coming off the train and going up the N.V.R.to be stored until L.S.L. decide to get her to crewe for fixing.
Anyhow the S.D. tour continued to be diesel hauled to to York by the tailgunner class 57 or 47 on the rear and back to Kings X diesel hauled as well so I decided to abandon the tour and make my way up to Leeds and back home on a lner service train.
Oddly enough as well west coast railways railway touring Co did a tour yesterday as well I think to Weymouth with 5mt 45212 that also failed when it got to weymouth with a hot axle box so there tour went awry as well.
So what I'm asking is do network rail look at this in a bad light when steam locos over 60 yrs old fail like this and does it have a negative effect on N.R. directors wanting to ban steam tours which sometimes result in blocking service train paths and how situations like this besides the hot weather and lineside fires could affect future T.O.C. private steam charters tours any thoughts on this subject who might also do steam touring?

 

[railfan99]

Are you applying for a partial refund from Steam Dreams, or would the operator take the view it was your decision to alight from the tour where you did?

 

[Harpo]

So what I'm asking is do network rail look at this in a bad light when steam locos over 60 yrs old fail like this and does it have a negative effect on N.R. directors wanting to ban steam tours

Steam operation is well managed and a routine feature of many bits of the network. The only serious and unique risk that steam brings is fires. Two failures in one day is just a statistical blip and, so far as I know, neither caused major network burgeration?

In all my railway career, I only heard one vehement anti-steam voice and that was a TOC MD who liked to compare main line steam to landing a Sopwith Camel at Heathrow. But then, incandescence was their speciality.

 

[bleeder4]

Clan Line failed this morning as well, so today's tour from Victoria is diesel-hauled.

 

[Trainspecial]

If I’m correct then this is the 6th loco failure we’ve had in a month although half of those have been diesels

 

[Towers]

Freight trains fail all the time, I’d imagine that’s far more disruptive overall! Provided the charter operators are paying NR whatever fees are due, I see no reason for it to be a problem. Incidentally, I would strongly suspect - although I’m happy to be corrected - that a ticket on a steam charter very probably comes with T&Cs which state that the kettle is “subject to availability” etc etc; so I doubt any recompense is due if the insurance policy diesel takes over?!

 

[grumpyxch]

I just wanted to add to the mainline steam tours updates:
Yesterday I went on a steam dreams tour 23 july commencing at King's X to York return I joined the tour at London after getting a N.X. Coach from leeds to Sheffield and the early 04:48am E.M.T. to st Pancras in and had planned to alight on the return at Huntingdon however it dident go according to plan I had booked in premier dining as well at a cost of £320 which made me infuriated after what happened 70000 Britannia riddles 7mt ran a hot big end after been stopped at Fletton jct outside Peterborough for a Waterstop all of a sudden a steward announced to everyone on the S.D. tour 70000 britannia was failed and coming off the train and going up the N.V.R.to be stored until L.S.L. decide to get her to crewe for fixing.
Anyhow the S.D. tour continued to be diesel hauled to to York by the tailgunner class 57 or 47 on the rear and back to Kings X diesel hauled as well so I decided to abandon the tour and make my way up to Leeds and back home on a lner service train.
Oddly enough as well west coast railways railway touring Co did a tour yesterday as well I think to Weymouth with 5mt 45212 that also failed when it got to weymouth with a hot axle box so there tour went awry as well.
So what I'm asking is do network rail look at this in a bad light when steam locos over 60 yrs old fail like this and does it have a negative effect on N.R. directors wanting to ban steam tours which sometimes result in blocking service train paths and how situations like this besides the hot weather and lineside fires could affect future T.O.C. private steam charters tours any thoughts on this subject who might also do steam touring?

I went to see 45212 on its way from Southampton to Weymouth. Before it got to Southampton I was monitoring it on Real Time Trains. It was supposed to come down from Salisbury, go through Southampton Central, spend 20 minutes in a loop, presumably to take on water, then get towed at the back of the train by a 47 through Southampton Central again down to Weymouth. According to RTT, it stopped on the way into Southampton for about 25 minutes (not scheduled), went only as far as Central, then the 47 immediately took over and the train and 45212 went to Weymouth without that scheduled 20 minute stop. The whole assembly (47, carriages, and 45212) came through Christchurch station at speed (50 mph is the limit through this station), so quite how much extra damage was done by the time it got to Weymouth. I was unable to go back to see the return journey so I don't know if 45212 was still in the train or whether it was left at Weymouth. Possibly, while the coaches were in the sidings at Weymouth the 47 may have been able to take 45212 up to Yeovil to the Steam Centre (for security, and possibly for repair). I don't know if that last bit happened, I'm just theorising about it.

 

[Towers]

I went to see 45212 on its way from Southampton to Weymouth. Before it got to Southampton I was monitoring it on Real Time Trains. It was supposed to come down from Salisbury, go through Southampton Central, spend 20 minutes in a loop, presumably to take on water, then get towed at the back of the train by a 47 through Southampton Central again down to Weymouth. According to RTT, it stopped on the way into Southampton for about 25 minutes (not scheduled), went only as far as Central, then the 47 immediately took over and the train and 45212 went to Weymouth without that scheduled 20 minute stop. The whole assembly (47, carriages, and 45212) came through Christchurch station at speed (50 mph is the limit through this station), so quite how much extra damage was done by the time it got to Weymouth. I was unable to go back to see the return journey so I don't know if 45212 was still in the train or whether it was left at Weymouth. Possibly, while the coaches were in the sidings at Weymouth the 47 may have been able to take 45212 up to Yeovil to the Steam Centre (for security, and possibly for repair). I don't know if that last bit happened, I'm just theorising about it.

I can’t imagine it would have been just carelessly bolted to the back of the train and recklessly towed to Weymouth at speed if it was likely to cause damage! There are plenty of places around So’ton where I’d imagine an errant loco could be dropped off, and indeed no shortage of 66s/70s or even an 08 or two to nip out and fetch it if necessary!

 

[158747]

I went to see 45212 on its way from Southampton to Weymouth. Before it got to Southampton I was monitoring it on Real Time Trains. It was supposed to come down from Salisbury, go through Southampton Central, spend 20 minutes in a loop, presumably to take on water, then get towed at the back of the train by a 47 through Southampton Central again down to Weymouth. According to RTT, it stopped on the way into Southampton for about 25 minutes (not scheduled), went only as far as Central, then the 47 immediately took over and the train and 45212 went to Weymouth without that scheduled 20 minute stop. The whole assembly (47, carriages, and 45212) came through Christchurch station at speed (50 mph is the limit through this station), so quite how much extra damage was done by the time it got to Weymouth. I was unable to go back to see the return journey so I don't know if 45212 was still in the train or whether it was left at Weymouth. Possibly, while the coaches were in the sidings at Weymouth the 47 may have been able to take 45212 up to Yeovil to the Steam Centre (for security, and possibly for repair). I don't know if that last bit happened, I'm just theorising about it.

45212 was still at Weymouth this morning.

 

[grumpyxch]

I can’t imagine it would have been just carelessly bolted to the back of the train and recklessly towed to Weymouth at speed if it was likely to cause damage! There are plenty of places around So’ton where I’d imagine an errant loco could be dropped off, and indeed no shortage of 66s/70s or even an 08 or two to nip out and fetch it if necessary!

I would have assumed that they knew what they were doing too, BUT that doesn't mean they don't ever get it wrong. With my limited knowledge of hot boxes, I would have put the loco in a local siding, but while there it may have attracted the attention of thieves and/or vandals

 

[62484GlenLyon]

The working 45212's train was as planned and the usual method of working for RTC's Dorset Coast Express. It was the same method of working in 2024. Previous to last year the steam loco worked directly to Weymouth via Winchester, the diesel hauled the return to Southampton and the steam took over there, returning to London via Andover. One advantage of the change last year is that the steam loco, not the diesel, now hauls the train up the climb out of Weymouth.

Yesterday, the train had to stop between Romsey and Southampton, via Redbridge, not via Eastleigh, for water vice the planned water stop at Southampton Up Goods Loop as the water tanker could not access that site. RTT is a bit misleading as it implies that Southampton Up Goods Loop is east of Southampton Central but the Goods Loop is to the west of Southampton Central between there and Redbridge.


I have done many of these Dorset Coast Express trains since at least 2013 and this method of working has been used throughout, the only variation has been whether the steam loco is on the rear between Southampton and Weymouth or Weymouth and Southampton. I am confident that yesterday's problem with 45212 was a 'one-off" and not due to the loco being on the rear of the formation from Southampton. After all the years of the steam loco being on the rear in one direction, or the other, between Southampton and Weymouth any problems with such working would have become apparent long before now.


More generally, all steam locos used on the main line have to pass a thorough fitness to run test a day or two beforehand and many a scheduled train has been cancelled or diesel hauled by a steam loco's failure of this test. Also, had there been any doubt about 45212 at any time between leaving Victoria yesterday morning and arrival at Weymouth nearly 6 hours later the train would have been stopped at the earliest opportunity for the matter to be dealt with. Hot boxes have to be treated very seriously indeed.

 

[Deepgreen]

The 20 minute water stop at Winchfield also took 26 for some reason, which added to the delay of the 'trapped' Basingstoke stopping train behind the steam there, which amounted to about 25 minutes. 20 minutes should be more than enough to water a 'Black Five', so I wonder what extended the stop.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

I don't know why the water stop overran by a few minutes. I was at the rear of the train and didn't bother walking to the front to view the watering process. Thus I don't know if, for instance, the water tanker was late getting to Winchfield, had to "shunt" to be in the correct position for the hose to connect to 45212 or if there were any pumping issues. Water stops don't always work ideally.

 

[grumpyxch]

Aah! My assumption of the 25 minute stop at Redbridge wasn't because of the hot box (sorry about that), and so the loco being towed at speed through Christchurch was safe. It would be interesting to know just where the loco was when they discovered the hot box.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

I was told that the hot box was discovered at Weymouth shortly after the arrival from London.

 

[Newbury]

The 25 minutes by Redbridge was for water, the tanker was parked on Test Lane and they stopped the engine over a footpath crossing to be able to access it. Didn’t seem as though anything was/suspected to be wrong then

 

[grumpyxch]

Perhaps they were too busy dealing with the water to check the loco at Redbridge, so I wonder how long it had been excessively hot before Weymouth. I guess we will never know

 

[62484GlenLyon]

It may not have been excessively hot at Weymouth. Any hint of a problem would have been enough to ground the loco. Also, the crew on the footplate will be alert to anything that they think could be a problem during the journey so if they weren't happy they would have raised any concerns at Redbridge during the water stop - indeed, if it was safe to do so they well have checked around the loco there as a matter of routine.

 

[444045]

Repairs completed on the hot box on the tender of 45212 at Weymouth :

Later today 5Z29 14+15 Weymouth to Bristol via Yeovil Pen Mill - 45212 plus support coach.

 

[brad465]

Repairs completed on the hot box on the tender of 45212 at Weymouth :

Later today 5Z29 14+15 Weymouth to Bristol via Yeovil Pen Mill - 45212 plus support coach.

Apparently this loco failed again today on the Royal Duchy railtour. I'm guessing it was diesel only returning to Bristol, as it travelled unusually quickly between Exeter and Bristol, to the point it left the former on time and arrived at the latter 30 minutes early:

Realtime Trains | 1Z34 1710 Par to Bristol Temple Meads | 27/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 1Z34 1710 departure from Par to Bristol Temple Meads on 27/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[John R]

Yep, diesel only on the return trip. Looking at the outward timing it probably failed at Tiverton Parkway.

 

[brad465]

Yep, diesel only on the return trip. Looking at the outward timing it probably failed at Tiverton Parkway.

Apparently it was at or near Plymouth on the out trip. The loco is now at Laira from what I've heard.

 

[paultucker1012]

It was at or near Plymouth - was still running OK near Ivybridge.