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GBRf Class 99 - 30 locomotives now ordered

Suraggu

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I don't see why the customer would pay any more unless there was any advantage to them. Surely they just want stuff moved from A to B. They don't care what's hauling it.

Presumably GBRf have worked out that using these machines will let them operate various services more efficiently, saving themselves some running costs in exchange for the capital cost of the locos themselves.
They won’t care, but if they are approached with the green credential but comes at an additional cost, the customer is likely to decline if they deem it an unnecessary additional cost to their business. GB won’t want to lose revenue due to additional leasing/AC usage costs on flows either. And freight continues to be a run to the bottom in terms of who can move products the cheapest.

We know DB pulled the plug on AC hauled services favouring diesel due to the higher cost for example.
 
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themiller

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And also the additional cost to the customer for switching to a class 99. That leasing cost difference from a class 66 hauled service has to be paid somehow.
The leasing cost is only part of the equation. You must also factor in higher availability means lower fleet size, faster transit through less looping and reduces the need for extra paths, higher power means theyll be able to haul longer trains. All in all, it’s possible the customer won’t see a rise in cost.
 

BRX

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They won’t care, but if they are approached with the green credential but comes at an additional cost, the customer is likely to decline if they deem it an unnecessary additional cost to their business.
Well yes, which is why it seems unlikely that GBRf would start charging more to customers where they use the 99s. GBRf will use the 99s where it's advantageous to them.
 

Noddy

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Ford won't be using electric traction for sentimental reasons.

I don't see why the customer would pay any more unless there was any advantage to them. Surely they just want stuff moved from A to B. They don't care what's hauling it.

Presumably GBRf have worked out that using these machines will let them operate various services more efficiently, saving themselves some running costs in exchange for the capital cost of the locos themselves.

They won’t care, but if they are approached with the green credential but comes at an additional cost, the customer is likely to decline if they deem it an unnecessary additional cost to their business. GB won’t want to lose revenue due to additional leasing/AC usage costs on flows either. And freight continues to be a run to the bottom in terms of who can move products the cheapest.

We know DB pulled the plug on AC hauled services favouring diesel due to the higher cost for example.

Traditionally this is true (that they wouldn’t care what type of traction is used as long as it is cheap) but Ford are aiming to be carbon neutral by 2035 in Europe (and are investing millions towards that goal) so this is one way of contributing towards that. Their carbon footprint is also tied in with tax credits and possibly even their EV quota figures (I’m not 100% sure about the latter, but these EV quota figures are all very opaque and not the overall figures widely reported in the press). So while electric haulage may on the surface appear be more expensive, overall they may be able to write some of it off either as part of their carbon neutral investment, or as tax or other credits.
 
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Magdalia

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GBRf launch event at Peterborough yesterday, BBC report here:



New locomotives that run on electricity and renewable fuels could reduce rail freight emissions by more than half on a typical journey.

A £150m investment was made into Class 99 locomotives, which were unveiled in Peterborough at GB Railfreight (GBRf) headquarters on Thursday.

Once testing was complete, the new fleet could enter commercial service to move consumable goods and materials across the country this winter.
 

99009

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0Q47 Leicester LIP - Peterborough Yard is the next move, set to depart Leicester in about 40 minutes if it runs.

0Q47:

There is then a VSTP path for a 4Q90 Peterborough Yard - Doncaster Down Decoy Yard tonight as well, which will mark the first appearance of 99's in Doncaster if it runs.

4Q90:

Further overnight moves via the ECML are then scheduled to occur. 4Q91 Doncaster - Peterborough, 6Q92 Peterborough - Newark Northgate and 6Q93 Newark Northgate - Peterborough.

4Q91:

6Q92:

6Q93:
 

66701GBRF

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Other than the relative prices of electricity and diesel... I agree though for Ford's long distance routes a Class 99 would be very attractive.

Kent Avenue Bridge is basically where the sidings start to fan out, and the Sectional Appendix does not say anything about the connecting line being non-electrified. It's very possible that the electrics worked up to the limit of OLE and then shunted off, letting the 08 take it the last hundred yards of so. On the 2009 Street View photo from Kent Avenue there's definitely no OLE into the sidings themselves.
The weird loop looks big enough for a pair of locos, which would fit with my suggestion of detach and shunt. 08 waits on the loop, 90(s) stop before points, detach and draw forwards, then 08 attaches and hauls the wagons in. in reverse, 90(s) would be standing waiting at the loop, 08 would haul out then detach and draw forward to loop, 90(s) drop on then depart towards Ripple Lane.

There is definitely no OLE into the Ford terminal. It stops about two loco lengths beyond the loco slip. The manner of shunting for AC arrivals is exactly as you described. For departures it's either as you suggested (the pilot hauls the wagons out) or the pilot will propel the wagons out then the mainline loco attaches between the Ford gates and loco slip. In your first picture where the points diverge to the right is where the GB pilot used to be stored when not in use (just squeeze in between the arrival/departure line and the FORD shunting line.
 

Rail Quest

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There is then a VSTP path for a 4Q90 Peterborough Yard - Doncaster Down Decoy Yard tonight as well, which will mark the first appearance of 99's in Doncaster if it runs.

4Q90:
Further overnight moves via the ECML are then scheduled to occur. 4Q91 Doncaster - Peterborough, 6Q92 Peterborough - Newark Northgate and 6Q93 Newark Northgate - Peterborough.

4Q91:
6Q92:
6Q93:
Could any of these be the first move of a class 99 on the UK railways under its own power?
 

D1537

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Not sure what's happening, but it's taken a very long time to get to Tallington Junction and appears to have delayed 1D33 by around 10 minutes on its way there.
 

Adrian Barr

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But there is apparently OLE in October 24 as far as this odd cripple sidings/loco cupboard (the big grey bridge in this image is the footbridge adjacent to Kent Avenue): Which suggests 90s worked beyond Ripple Lane but not all the way into the sidings

There is definitely no OLE into the Ford terminal. It stops about two loco lengths beyond the loco slip. The manner of shunting for AC arrivals is exactly as you described. For departures it's either as you suggested (the pilot hauls the wagons out) or the pilot will propel the wagons out then the mainline loco attaches between the Ford gates and loco slip. In your first picture where the points diverge to the right is where the GB pilot used to be stored when not in use (just squeeze in between the arrival/departure line and the FORD shunting line.

I didn't know that GBRF were using a class 08 at Dagenham when 92s were hauling the car trains, but managed to find a snap here of a 92 + 08 in the loco siding, taken in 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/186859825@N04/49614736078/ (Photo: Daniel Warman)

When DB were using a 90 on the car trains to Mossend, there was a class 66 pilot based at Dagenham which was used to trip the Transfesa traffic (from Spain) from Ripple Lane Exchange Sidings into Dagenham, and also across to Barking container terminal. It must have been used to take the car wagons into the Dagenham Ford reception sidings too. The groundstaff cabin was located by the loco siding so it was a convenient place to stable the pilot loco. A 66 is seen in the loco siding with a 90 alongside in 2018: https://www.flickr.com/photos/37271_37418/46524975651/ (Photo: Transport 37418)

The general layout is seen more clearly here, with the line into Dagenham ARC (Heidelberg sand loading and stone offload) diverging right: https://www.flickr.com/photos/linesidesoutheast/39735290693/ (Photo: Anthony Kay)
A class 90 is seen on 6X77 between Dagenham Ford and Ripple Lane Exchange sidings in 2018: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/31260071538/ (Photo: Antony Kay)

On google maps you can see the gate across the line marking the entry into the Fords sidings - it's just east of that loco siding and just west of Kent Avenue. The OLE appears to stop just short of that gate. Due to the length of the car trains, the reception sidings extend all the way to Marsh Way bridge - on Streetview from this bridge you can see loaded double-deck car wagons waiting to be collected from the reception sidings. My understanding is that DB left the wagons here (or collected them) and they were shunted into the Fords complex itself by the company's own internal shunt locos. These were / are 0-4-0 machines which look too small to comfortably move an entire car train by itself, especially around the sharp curves of the site. There's some brief glimpses of internal shunting and car loading at Dagenham in a short promotional video included in this post in the thread of industrial systems.

To return to the topic of class 99s, they would be ideal for the car flows as you get the benefit of electric haulage for the trunk haul, but they can also take the wagons into the Dagenham Ford reception sidings off the wires.



4Q91 has now left Doncaster Down Decoy, heading for Peterborough with 99001 and the same consist as 4Q90...
 

800001

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Looks like 6Q92/6Q93 never ran after arriving into Peterborough 64L with 4Q91. Delay coded to diesel loco.

brake issues and swapping to electric issues caused the delays.
 

Class15

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I see a VST from Peterborough to Doncaster on the GNGE Joint line today - worth a look?

The lack of a ‘Q’ headcode would suggest it’s not a 99.
 

ac6000cw

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Re. cl. 99 testing - a quote from the August edition of Modern Railways (based on an MR conversation with CEO John Smith OBE on 9th July):
The first test under their own power was scheduled for 21 July, Mr. Smith told MR, and that will be on electric power rather than diesel. He praised the work of GBRf Class 99 Project Lead Bob Tiller, who has led the project from the start. Once that is complete, testing will be carried out on the East Coast, West Coast and West Anglia main lines.
I wonder how far the West Anglia main line testing might take one on electric - just to Stratford, or beyond?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Tonight, there's 4Q90 (Peterborough - Doncaster) : https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R04799/2025-07-24/detailed
and the return 4Q91 (Doncaster - Peterborough) : https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R04798/2025-07-25/detailed

Both pathed as "Diesel locomotive, trailing load 800 tonnes, Planned for 75mph max"
 
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99009

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Just for the sake of providing info, the video posted above was 4Q91 Doncaster Decoy - Peterborough Yard. This video here is 4Q90 Peterborough Yard - Doncaster Decoy. You can tell by the position of the 69's in the videos.

 

ac6000cw

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Tonight's 4Q92 and 4Q90 (both Peterborough - Doncaster) : https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R04789/2025-07-25/detailed and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07006/2025-07-25/detailed

The 4Q91 and 4Q93 return workings : https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07005/2025-07-26/detailed and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R04788/2025-07-26/detailed

(The departure times of the same-direction schedules above are less than 20 minutes apart, so maybe they are just alternatives?)

There's also Peterborough - Newark and return workings: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07004/2025-07-26/detailed and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07003/2025-07-26/detailed

Also Saturday early morning (05:41) 0Q93 Peterborough - Leicester LIP: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07007/2025-07-26/detailed - I wonder if this might be a 99's first mainline run on diesel?
 
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ac6000cw

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last nights multiple testing run!
and photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukbuses/54677363960/in/photostream/
history was made! and the power from them sounded fantastic!!
If I've counted correctly, the trailing load was 20 hopper wagons plus two cl. 69s.

Assuming the wagons were empty, trailing load would be around (20 * 25) + (2 * 125) = 750 tonnes which would fit with the 800 tonne timing load and 75mph max speed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There's also Peterborough - Newark and return workings: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07004/2025-07-26/detailed and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07003/2025-07-26/detailed

Also Saturday early morning (05:41) 0Q93 Peterborough - Leicester LIP: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R07007/2025-07-26/detailed - I wonder if this might be a 99's first mainline run on diesel?
To answer my own question, RTT says the Leicester run was with '69013 + 99001 + 99002' so presumably the 99s were hauled dead by 69013.

The Newark runs were cancelled, and the 4Q90 & 4Q91 Doncaster runs were '99001 + 69013 + 69014'.
 
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