Railways Use of the 24 Hour Clock

[DaleCooper]

A question that came to me out of the blue. When did railways in the UK start using the 24 hour clock?

 

[AlterEgo]

British Rail started this on 14 June 1965.

 

[DaleCooper]

British Rail started this on 14 June 1965.

Thanks

 

[Rescars]

At least Bradshaws didn't survive long enough to suffer this dumbing down!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A presumably oft-asked question.... Be right in saying that the public timetable never normally shows an 00:00 (or 24:00) arrival or departure time? Or, is that not necessarily the case?

 

[ls2270]

A presumably oft-asked question.... Be right in saying that the public timetable never normally shows an 00:00 (or 24:00) arrival or departure time? Or, is that not necessarily the case?

That’s correct in terms of the National Rail Network. However, London Underground certainly used to show 00:00 departure times on public timetables and may well still do.

 

[Magdalia]

The Western Region 1964 public timetable used the 24 hour clock.

A presumably oft-asked question.... Be right in saying that the public timetable never normally shows an 00:00 (or 24:00) arrival or departure time? Or, is that not necessarily the case?

In the public timetables it was usually avoided by not advertising anything with a midnight arrival/departure time.

Dave Edmunds had it right:

"Midnight, I'm a waiting on the 12.05...."

 

[Dstock7080]

However, London Underground certainly used to show 00:00 departure times on public timetables and may well still do.

LU still use 00:00 24:00

corrected

 

[62484GlenLyon]

The first edition in 1965 did show at least one departure at 00.00.

This is an extract of the LMR timetable of 14.6.1965 showing the 00.00 from Euston. There may well be others in this and the other regions timetables - I found this one during a random search.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .I have seen some bus operators use 24.00 to denote midnight, with the first minute after being 00.01 and so on – I think this is the least confusing method in my opinion!

Chris Williams

 

[Beebman]

I've attached part of a page from the current (no.63) Piccadilly Line WTT which is available online from TfL:



Note the use of 24.00 in the fifth column and 00.00¼ in the eighth. I can't see any use of 00.00 without a fraction anywhere in the publication.

 

[Dstock7080]

Note the use of 24.00 in the fifth column and 00.00¼ in the eighth. I can't see any use of 00.00 without a fraction anywhere in the publication.

Apologies, I had it in my mind that LU use the rarer showing of midnight and they do use 24:00
(wires crossed)

 

[ThirteenArches]

I remember a letter in (I think) Railway Magazine of the time, suggesting that trains timetabled as 22:11 and 22:12 should be retimed to 22:10. A passenger misinterpreting the spoken time would then turn up half an hour early, rather than half an hour or an hour and a half late.

 

[Western 52]

Interestingly when speaking train times in Welsh it's usually 12 hour clock used. TfW auto announcements use it alongside the 24 hour equivalent in English.

 

[The exile]

I remember a letter in (I think) Railway Magazine of the time, suggesting that trains timetabled as 22:11 and 22:12 should be retimed to 22:10. A passenger misinterpreting the spoken time would then turn up half an hour early, rather than half an hour or an hour and a half late.

Whereas many years later there would be confusion in East Anglia whenever the 20.40 “One” service was announced (other round times are available)

 

[norbitonflyer]

Whereas many years later there would be confusion in East Anglia whenever the 20.40 “One” service was announced (other round times are available)

There was similar confusion when the first train was a Cross country service and the second train was a First Great Western train.

Also that all the carriages said "First" on the side, to the confusion and dismay of standard class passengers

 

[SargeNpton]

A presumably oft-asked question.... Be right in saying that the public timetable never normally shows an 00:00 (or 24:00) arrival or departure time? Or, is that not necessarily the case?

It's not just the public timetable. The operating timetable also avoids 00:00/24:00.

 

[mike57]

To take this a bit further how do timetables cope with that bi-annual farce of clocks change, clocks forward (at least you miss an hour) and clocks back, the hour repeats. Not sure how many trains will be running at this time, probably sleepers and I know TPE North used to be pretty much 24 hour on the core route

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not sure how many trains will be running at this time, probably sleepers and I know TPE North used to be pretty much 24 hour on the core route

Don't think any sleepers now operate on a Saturday night/Sunday morning. Must, however, be service trains running on other parts of the rail network at that time of the night, i.e. when clocks are changed, such as the Thameslink route North of Three Bridges.

 

[irp]

That’s correct in terms of the National Rail Network. However, London Underground certainly used to show 00:00 departure times on public timetables and may well still do.

While risking going off. topic, the Military don't use 0000 or 2400 either, AIUI - Events will happen at 2359 or 0001, in order to avoid confusion

 

[stephen rp]

To take this a bit further how do timetables cope with that bi-annual farce of clocks change, clocks forward (at least you miss an hour) and clocks back, the hour repeats. Not sure how many trains will be running at this time, probably sleepers and I know TPE North used to be pretty much 24 hour on the core route

Usually it didn't make much difference as any train starting before the clock change would be safely arrived before the next morning's service started. The empty stock off the newspaper trains would be retimed an hour earlier or later and shown in special traffic notices.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I remember a letter in (I think) Railway Magazine of the time, suggesting that trains timetabled as 22:11 and 22:12 should be retimed to 22:10. A passenger misinterpreting the spoken time would then turn up half an hour early, rather than half an hour or an hour and a half late.

When I worked there in the late 60s the last train (until 3 ish in the morning) from Northampton to London was 22.11. No matter how carefully you explained to prospective passengers that it left at about ten past ten at night there were those, recognised as being amongst that number, who still turned up expecting a twenty to eleven at night service. Tipping out time at the Black Lion nearby may have been a factor, though .
Curiosities were the Euston flap digital clocks then. Waiting on occasions for the 00.15 Crewe via everywhere train home, the clock display continued past 23.59 to 24.00 and then to 24.06 or 07 before reverting to 00.nn. I think they had a single flap for each hour, so 24 was physically there, not the result of separate 2- and -4 flaps.

 

[Tester]

Not GB, and not railway, but.....

In Japan it is not unusual to see opening hours for bars etc. 'going round the clock' - so somewhere open from 1730 to 0130 will show 1730-2530.

I have never seen this anywhere else.

 

[Rescars]

Usually it didn't make much difference as any train starting before the clock change would be safely arrived before the next morning's service started. The empty stock off the newspaper trains would be retimed an hour earlier or later and shown in special traffic notices.

AIUI summer time came into use during WW1, so timetabling had to accommodate seasonal clock changes long before the 24 hour clock was adopted.

 

[A S Leib]

To take this a bit further how do timetables cope with that bi-annual farce of clocks change, clocks forward (at least you miss an hour) and clocks back, the hour repeats. Not sure how many trains will be running at this time, probably sleepers and I know TPE North used to be pretty much 24 hour on the core route

The ÖBB app shows the Hamburg – Vienna sleeper as leaving Altona at 19:56 on 25 October and arriving at 09:17 (duration 14:21); for the 26 October departure it says leaving 19:56, arriving 09:17, duration 13:21.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Usually it didn't make much difference as any train starting before the clock change would be safely arrived before the next morning's service started. The empty stock off the newspaper trains would be retimed an hour earlier or later and shown in special traffic notices.

It got more even complicated for European International trains; different countries had different start and end dates for Summer Time. This affected British trains, too, that connected at Den Haag or Dunkerque. Perhaps it's all been co-ordinated now.

 

[A S Leib]

It got more even complicated for European International trains; different countries had different start and end dates for Summer Time. This affected British trains, too, that connected at Den Haag or Dunkerque. Perhaps it's all been co-ordinated now.

I think all daylight savings changes in Australia happen at the same time, but without any DST in Queensland, Northern Territory or Western Australia.

An even bigger issue I can think of might have been the late adoption by some countries of the Gregorian calendar; not until late into the 1910s for most of southeastern Europe.

 

[swt_passenger]

To take this a bit further how do timetables cope with that bi-annual farce of clocks change, clocks forward (at least you miss an hour) and clocks back, the hour repeats. Not sure how many trains will be running at this time, probably sleepers and I know TPE North used to be pretty much 24 hour on the core route

They just stick a few extra trains in the WTT for the autumn change. If you look up the Thameslink route on RTT for the morning of 27 Oct, (as an example of a service that runs overnight), in the detailed view it will show that such and such a service is in the WTT for that day only. In the spring they knock a few out. It’s been happening for many years so I’d assume they have fairly well rehearsed processes. As it’s a Sat/Sun there’s all the normal alterations due to engineering work as well.

Nevertheless the question does seem to crop up in these forums a couple of times most years for some strange reason.

 

[Beebman]

Not GB, and not railway, but.....

In Japan it is not unusual to see opening hours for bars etc. 'going round the clock' - so somewhere open from 1730 to 0130 will show 1730-2530.

I have never seen this anywhere else.

Similarly TV programme guides in Japan show times going beyond 24:00. I've attached a screenshot of the current Fuji TV listings (in Japanese) showing programmes scheduled up until 28:45 (i.e. 04:45):

 

[Magdalia]

It got more even complicated for European International trains; different countries had different start and end dates for Summer Time. This affected British trains, too, that connected at Den Haag or Dunkerque. Perhaps it's all been co-ordinated now.

Yes, since 1995.

Different change dates would have been tricky for the Channel Tunnel.