UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[AlastairFraser]

There's a an interesting review of the BAW Pony on the Hubnut YouTube channel. It's a "quadricycle" rather than a car, but the price point is reckoned to be around the £12-14k mark. Range isn't huge, but it looks like a useful runabout for short trips; possibly more suitable as a delivery vehicle.

The video is here:

My only issue is with the manufacturer's name; the marketing team probably haven't considered how the name "BAW" will be received in Scotland...

Second model named the Bag
Returning to the subject, £12-14k is a little pricey for something like this IMHO.
For a similar price, you can have a base model Dacia Spring and that offers many more features

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's a an interesting review of the BAW Pony on the Hubnut YouTube channel. It's a "quadricycle" rather than a car, but the price point is reckoned to be around the £12-14k mark. Range isn't huge, but it looks like a useful runabout for short trips; possibly more suitable as a delivery vehicle.

The video is here:

My only issue is with the manufacturer's name; the marketing team probably haven't considered how the name "BAW" will be received in Scotland...

Is the "quadricycle" classification actually used in any official capacity in the UK? I know that they're their own thing in France (16 year olds can drive them on the road, as can people who are serving a driving ban in some cases) but I've never heard of any similar rules here. Are they classified like Reliant Robins for example, which can be driven on a motorcycle licence?

 

[jon0844]

With the pending EV grants coming in which won't apply to Chinese cars, Stellantis and GWM are each reducing the price of two car models - suggesting other Chinese companies may also discount to the equivalent of the grant. With the discount also likely to be around £1500 off a Dacia Spring, they're going to become even better value (and hit second hand values for those recently sold).

Quadricycles limited in speed really need to be a LOT cheaper. Dacia Springs with under 1,000 miles are already down to around £10k second hand, maybe less, so I am not sure I'd consider one unless they were nearer £5k or below. They don't need lots of toys as they're urban runarounds for short journeys that you might not quite be able to do with an e-bike, for example.

 

[Harpers Tate]

A dead giveaway is that there is no gear lever, even automatics will have some way of changing from Park to drive, and reverse, electric cars don't have anything, only a two-way switch, for go and reverse. that, and the numberplate, blanked off grills, often with the charge point in the grill on some models, but the model designation, often, will have some clues,

1: My EV has four "positions" labelled as, and equivalent in function to: Park Neutral Forward Reverse. Yes, it's a set of buttons, but then I have seen conventional automatics with the same setup. The point being that it may simply be "newness" (as distinct from traction) that determines whether it's a huge lever, or electronic controls.

2: The green flash on numberplates is not mandatory and mine doesn't have one.

 

[Noddy]

Is the "quadricycle" classification actually used in any official capacity in the UK? I know that they're their own thing in France (16 year olds can drive them on the road, as can people who are serving a driving ban in some cases) but I've never heard of any similar rules here. Are they classified like Reliant Robins for example, which can be driven on a motorcycle licence?

Not sure about those with driving bans, but 16 year olds can drive light quadricycles in the UK too. All thats needed is moped licence and (presumably) insurance. You are restricted to about 30mph and if you are driving one on a moped licence you can’t take passengers. There are various different types of ‘quadricycle’ and heavy quadricycles still need a full licence to drive one.

 

[Snow1964]

A dead giveaway is that there is no gear lever, even automatics will have some way of changing from Park to drive, and reverse, electric cars don't have anything, only a two-way switch, for go and reverse. that, and the numberplate, blanked off grills, often with the charge point in the grill on some models, but the model designation, often, will have some clues,

A number of ICE cars also have no gear lever, just a toggle rocker type switch too. It tends to be on larger cars where no manual gearbox option exists, so instead centre console has been designed without space for a lever.

Is the "quadricycle" classification actually used in any official capacity in the UK? I know that they're their own thing in France (16 year olds can drive them on the road, as can people who are serving a driving ban in some cases) but I've never heard of any similar rules here. Are they classified like Reliant Robins for example, which can be driven on a motorcycle licence?

The old rules of motorcycle licences from 60 years ago, are no longer relevant since the introduction of CBT (compulsory basic training) for mopeds and motorbikes.
Unless you held P category on your driving licence from before 2013 then also need CBT to drive a quadricycle (unless have car driving licence)

I don't like taxes with a hard threshold. With this it sounds like a £36999 car will cost £33249 while a £37001 one will stay the same. That means that the cars that are just cheaper than the £37k threshold will be out of stock.

There are some news stories in motoring press that the announcement has temporarily crashed the new EV market, because everyone intending to buy is now waiting for price cuts, and lower price with a grant. Renault have already cut a price that was few hundred above £37k to bring it below.

It is unclear if the actual amount due will change by much, as there is lot of smoke and mirrors obscuring new car prices. Giveth with one hand and take with other hand going on.
As an example CUPRA Born starts at £35,690 but currently get £7000 off with a PCP and £199 servicing, and contribution to home charger (or charging credit). Once grant starts might reprice the range and cut discount so more specs under £37k

 

[E27007]

With the pending EV grants coming in which won't apply to Chinese cars, Stellantis and GWM are each reducing the price of two car models - suggesting other Chinese companies may also discount to the equivalent of the grant.

The FT has published a similar comment, Chinese manufacturer Leapmotor to cut the price of their Leapmotor To3 car by £1500, and their C10 SUV by £3750, amounts equivalent to the Govt ZEV grant scheme which does not apply to the T03 and C10 vehicles. The FT reports the price cuts takes the C10 SUV to £32750 and the T03 below the price of the Dacia Spring.
The FT then comments, the established car industry has long warned that Chinese importers can absorb tariffs or price cuts and still make a profit because of low manufacturing costs in China, and any price war may benefit consumers but would harm the european industry that is struggling to eke out margins on EVs.
Price wars can adversely affect the residual values of used ZEVs, an issue for those ZEVs in service.
Reports of used Dacia Spring cars with under 1000 miles for £10,000, and examples with delivery mileage for £10,500 is not comforting for current and potential owners.

 

[jon0844]

The 0% finance on the Spring maybe works for someone who intended to buy a Spring and keep it forever, but unless you are speccing up a car with a very bespoke configuration, or it's a limited edition run or something, it doesn't make sense to buy a new EV any more than a new ICE car.

Clearly if there are some very good incentives on PCP or leasing then you can do the maths and make a decision, and if you are just going to hand the vehicle back then - certainly for leasing - you don't really care about the residuals but the monthly cost (and there are always great deals to be had if you're flexible on what car and spec you take).

These grants will have an impact for sure, but when you can get something like a Peugeot E2008 GT for £18k that's normally £37-38k new - and it's under a year old with 4-5000 miles, you're still better off not buying new.

But if this further helps the second hand market then it can only be a good thing. It will make EVs even more affordable and in some cases cheaper than their ICE equivalents

The Ford Puma EV was already technically cheaper before the grant because it has a higher spec than the ICE version. Like for like spec wise, the EV costs less. Now I assume it will be a lot less.

 

[Bald Rick]

saw a Renault 5 this morning that was not yellow or green …. Black. looked even better!

 

[jon0844]

saw a Renault 5 this morning that was not yellow or green …. Black. looked even better!

I like all the colours but most of the ones I've seen so far are yellow.

They've sold nearly 2500 of them and it has been a huge success for Renault as I said it would.

84% of Renault 5 buyers are new to the brand! Can you guess what they're swapping out of? | Autocar

Supermini has become most popular EV among private buyers, nudging Renault to second in sales chart

www.autocar.co.uk

The 5 has been a roaring commercial success in its first few months on sale: some 2400 examples had been delivered in the UK to the end of June and it was the best-selling EV to private buyers in April and May - making Renault the country’s number-two retail EV brand, behind Tesla.

The 5 was instrumental in helping Renault grow its share of the UK car market to 3.7%, with registrations climbing 16% year-on-year in the first half of 2025 - in part because of a 17% hike in private car sales.

Renault's EV sales were up a huge 887% in the first half, with the 5 and Scenic having joined the Mégane in the last year, and (UK MD Adam) Wood anticipates that the arrival of the 4 this autumn will drive further growth, based on the early success of the similarly conceived 5, which has “really has brought electric motoring to the masses in terms of affordability".

If this doesn't make Ford sit up and take notice about the demand for small affordable EVs, I don't know what will. Bring back the Fiesta or even the Ka as an EV!

 

[GusB]

If this doesn't make Ford sit up and take notice about the demand for small affordable EVs, I don't know what will. Bring back the Fiesta or even the Ka as an EV!

While it's nothing but speculation, there is some chatter about Ford reviving the Fiesta as an electric car, possibly on a platform shared with Volkswagen. If the Renault 5 (and 4) and other small EVs from stables such as Stellantis are going to be successful, Ford would be stupid not to try to grab a slice of the pie.

The UK's favourite car is coming back! Here's how it'll shake-up the supermini sector | Auto Express

Ford’s comeback plan for Europe hinges on new models tied-up with Renault, and the Fiesta is arguably the most important

www.autoexpress.co.uk

When Ford announced that it was culling its beloved – and big-selling – Fiesta supermini back in 2023, the news caused shock and surprise. However, only a couple of years after its demise, a new Ford Fiesta could be on the cards, and this time it’s likely to be an electric car.


As Ford continues its partnership with Volkswagen, the two brands are said to be exploring new projects following on from their joint success with the Ford Explorer and Capri, both of which share their underpinnings with the Volkswagen ID.4 and ID.5.


While we’re yet to hear any official announcements regarding a new Fiesta, Volkswagen’s head of sales and marketing, Martin Sander, exclusively told Auto Express that he considered Ford and VW’s original electric car tie-up to be “very, very, very successful” and that he did “not want to rule out that there are future opportunities here to share technology again”.


This statement opens up the possibility of a whole new breed of small Ford EVs. And given the brand’s willingness to resurrect past monikers, a fresh Fiesta is clearly an obvious choice.

Is a Ford Fiesta EV on its way?

Following an intriguing announcement by Ford Europe, is an all-electric VW ID.2 set for arrival within the next two years?

evpowered.co.uk

Ford has announced it will expand its full all-electric and hybrid car line-up in 2027 with two new models, fuelling speculation that its best-selling Fiesta supermini could return as an EV.​

In a message sent to its German dealer network and seen by industry publication Automobilwoche, Ford’s head of brand for German-speaking countries, Christoph Herr, revealed the brand’s mid-term plans.


According to Herr’s message, Ford will “invest in several vehicles, some of them together with partners and also with different forms of propulsion, including hybrids and fully electric vehicles.”


His comments open the door for a new, Fiesta EV based on a Volkswagen platform. Already, the VW Group shares its dedicated, all-electric MEB architecture with the Blue Oval for its all-electric Explorer and the Capri; the latter of which was revived as an EV last year.

 

[jon0844]

While it's nothing but speculation, there is some chatter about Ford reviving the Fiesta as an electric car, possibly on a platform shared with Volkswagen. If the Renault 5 (and 4) and other small EVs from stables such as Stellantis are going to be successful, Ford would be stupid not to try to grab a slice of the pie.

The UK's favourite car is coming back! Here's how it'll shake-up the supermini sector | Auto Express

Ford’s comeback plan for Europe hinges on new models tied-up with Renault, and the Fiesta is arguably the most important

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Is a Ford Fiesta EV on its way?

Following an intriguing announcement by Ford Europe, is an all-electric VW ID.2 set for arrival within the next two years?

evpowered.co.uk

Even keeping a small petrol version would have been a good idea, had it not been for Ford US taking more control of global operations and thinking bigger from a US perspective. It's a bit like Trump thinking his 'trade deal' will see Ford shipping over the likes of the F150 for us to snap up...

People who once owned a Fiesta went to other car makers (I know the Renault Clio was one such example, even before the Renault 5 came along) and will all of them go back?

 

[Bald Rick]

If Ford are looking to share a platform with VW, that will surely cause VW to press on and get the ID2 to market. That is going to do huge numbers assuming VW get it right.

 

[styles]

I believe 16 year olds can drive 'light quadracycles' also, after passing a CBT. Can't take passengers until they've passed their practical test.

They're quite popular in France. They haven't really taken off here, though we do have around half a dozen different models for sale.

 

[Bald Rick]

I believe 16 year olds can drive 'light quadracycles' also, after passing a CBT. Can't take passengers until they've passed their practical test.

They're quite popular in France. They haven't really taken off here, though we do have around half a dozen different models for sale.

Anecdote alert: I’ve spent quite a lot of time in France this year, Rural and Cities (incl Paris), and seen precisely none.

 

[styles]

Anecdote alert: I’ve spent quite a lot of time in France this year, Rural and Cities (incl Paris), and seen precisely none.

70,000 registered annually apparently. The most popular brand, Aixam, accounts for over half. Aixam quadracycles are quite easy to miss as they look much more like a "car":





(images show two different Aixam models which subjectively look like 'normal' cars, albeit smaller)

Cars still dominate over light quadracycles as well, obviously.

 

[jon0844]

When the Ami was pretty new I saw quite a few on the streets of Paris. They seemed perfect for the environment.

 

[E27007]

The FT features an interview with Stella Li , executive VP of Chinese BYD.
Li expresses skepticism over the new UK Govt grant scheme and outlines BYD plans for the UK, BYD have rapidly advanced to occupy the number one position , having overtaken Tesla in sales volume and vehicle technology of both software and rapid charging of batteries too,( note Tesla executives admit they are overtaken )
The UK grant scheme is designed to exclude Chinese ZEVs, yet Li states BYD sales will be unaffected , she describes the scheme as "stupid", "like a drug" a drug which if get rid off you suffer and hurt in the long run, ( I believe she means withdrawal symptoms when the grant scheme ends in 2029) She has pledged to create 5,000 jobs in the UK through expansion.
Her special adviser states "no European Govt can afford to fight against Chinese-made cars forever".
BYD intend to manufacture in Hungary and Turkey and for Europe open 2000 retail stores exclusively selling BYD cars ( note I believe retail stores as opposed to dealerships indicating BYD cars will be sold as if white goods)
The FT reports alarm among European manufacturers, the Chinese enjoy such low costs to manufacture, they can absorb tariffs etc and still make a profit.

Clearly BYD have stepped into the Ring , gloved and ready to fight 10 rounds.
Who will be the first European car maker to be out for the count?

 

[GusB]

Even keeping a small petrol version would have been a good idea, had it not been for Ford US taking more control of global operations and thinking bigger from a US perspective. It's a bit like Trump thinking his 'trade deal' will see Ford shipping over the likes of the F150 for us to snap up...

People who once owned a Fiesta went to other car makers (I know the Renault Clio was one such example, even before the Renault 5 came along) and will all of them go back?

If Fiesta had been kept in continuous production then I'd agree that keeping a petrol option in the range would have been a good idea. However, seeing as there has been a clean break, I think that EV-only is probably the way it will go; it'll depend on how the platform its based on is designed.

It'll probably upset the boy racers, but they'll move on to something else and it'll push up the prices of "classic" petrol Fiestas.

 

[jon0844]

If Fiesta had been kept in continuous production then I'd agree that keeping a petrol option in the range would have been a good idea. However, seeing as there has been a clean break, I think that EV-only is probably the way it will go; it'll depend on how the platform its based on is designed.

It'll probably upset the boy racers, but they'll move on to something else and it'll push up the prices of "classic" petrol Fiestas.

Even the boy racers of today will have to accept the transition to EVs (well, actually they don't - but it doesn't matter anyway). Given the ridiculous levels of torque and acceleration that EVs bring to the table, hot hatches of tomorrow are going to have the potential to be way faster than a lot of the 'hot hatches' around today.

Clearly insurance is likely to be an issue for those sporty models, but imagine when kids are buying up old MG4 Xpowers with 0-60 times of under 4 seconds... It is going to happen!

I agree that the existing Fiesta probably couldn't be easily adapted, but Ford should have been engineering a new platform for it - and by all means continuing to offer a petrol or petrol hybrid option alongside a BEV choice - then gradually transitioning to the BEV, as demand (hopefully) encouraged them to do,

I recall people saying there was no money in such models, but as I argued at the time - if Ford can't make a profitable small car, when others can (and are/have) then they've totally lost their way - something I think they did when they decided to pretty much take away all the power from Ford UK and Ford Europe, which understood their markets and the unique brands that aren't the same as Stateside.

As I predicted, the Fiesta will almost certainly return. If Ford is sensible, they'll also look at producing ST or even RS models. I've not been a member of the RS Owners Club for some years now, and I am not sure what their opinions would be on EV performance cars, but I am sure there will soon be a generation of people craving performance electric vehicles. MG, Hyundai and many others are making them and so should Ford! Halo cars sell the normal models, and it's easier than ever to make a performance variant.

 

[Harpo]

Bring back the Fiesta or even the Ka as an EV!

Just make sure that a) it doesn’t still look stupid and b) agree whether it’s pronounced as a gasping/gagging sound or by its letters K-A.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2025 ==

I believe 16 year olds can drive 'light quadracycles' also, after passing a CBT. Can't take passengers until they've passed their practical test.

No point in the UK when you can ride unchallenged on paperwork-free electric bikes that can overtake 30mph traffic. The scrote’s delivery vehicle of choice.

 

[thejuggler]

I like all the colours but most of the ones I've seen so far are yellow.

They've sold nearly 2500 of them and it has been a huge success for Renault as I said it would.

84% of Renault 5 buyers are new to the brand! Can you guess what they're swapping out of? | Autocar

Supermini has become most popular EV among private buyers, nudging Renault to second in sales chart

www.autocar.co.uk

If this doesn't make Ford sit up and take notice about the demand for small affordable EVs, I don't know what will. Bring back the Fiesta or even the Ka as an EV!

The only one I've seen on the road was black and that was in France in April.

Don't confuse sales with registrations. There are currently dozens of brand new and pre reg R5 electrics for sale. I've also seen plenty sat in compounds for months, ironically quite a few adjacent to the railway.

 

[Bald Rick]

The only one I've seen on the road was black and that was in France in April.

Don't confuse sales with registrations. There are currently dozens of brand new and pre reg R5 electrics for sale. I've also seen plenty sat in compounds for months, ironically quite a few adjacent to the railway.

Theres at least 5 being driven around the streets of St Albans. There’s two parked on drives within 300metres of my house. I can well believe that 2,500 have been sold. Feels like more.

 

[Noddy]

Li expresses skepticism over the new UK Govt grant scheme and outlines BYD plans for the UK, BYD have rapidly advanced to occupy the number one position , having overtaken Tesla in sales volume and vehicle technology of both software and rapid charging of batteries too,( note Tesla executives admit they are overtaken.
Clearly BYD have stepped into the Ring , gloved and ready to fight 10 rounds.
Who will be the first European car maker to be out for the count?

Just on a point of fact that it is true BYD are the largest electric manufacturer on a world wide sales level, but not true in Europe (or I think anywhere outside China). BYD were 13th by sales in Europe in Q1 2025 and 18th in the UK so far this year.

It’s almost certain that some big players will disappear from the market in this transition, but the ones most at risk will be those that fail to adapt and get left behind. Personally my money isn’t on any particular European manufacturers but rather Toyota and Honda (who seem to have practically abandoned the UK market already) who have invested 10s of billions in the wrong technology and still appear to be chasing their tails.

 

[Snow1964]

July new car sales are now out, this was before the newly announced Government grant of £1500 or £3750 to selected vehicles. Although a number of manufactures are now offering a £1500 grant guarantee reduction regardless of if grant is awarded to car. So EV sales might pick up in August (ans September tends to be busier anyway due to new registration plates)

BEV battery electric 21.3% (July 2024 was 18.5%)
PHEV plug in hybrid electric 12.5% (8.9%)
HEV hybrid electric 13.2% (14.0%)
Petrol 47.3% (July 2024 52.7%)
Diesel 5.7% (July 2024 5.9%)

So battery EVs continuing above a fifth of new sales and higher than last year

New car registrations stall in July but recovery expected - SMMT

New car market up 6.7% in June to 191,316 units as manufacturers use every channel to drive registrations to highest level since 2019.

www.smmt.co.uk

 

[HSTEd]

I am of the view that plug in vehicles collectively is the important parameter.
Most PHEVs will run predominantly on electricity much of the time and thus don't support much petrol demand.

I would also expect the PHEV fleet to beavailable as short range BEVs once petrol sales go into a death spiral.
I'd almost say that PHEVs should only be permitted with diesel burning engines, but I know that is probably not a realistic expectation at this point.

I guess there will be a market for LPG conversion kits or something later in the transition if petrol sales really do start falling rapidly.

 

[bspahh]

I am of the view that plug in vehicles collectively is the important parameter.
Most PHEVs will run predominantly on electricity much of the time and thus don't support much petrol demand.

Over their lifetime, PHEVs might run on electricity for much of the time. Perhaps not for company car PHEVs if the driver doesn't have to pay for the fuel out of their pocket.

 

[AM9]

I'd almost say that PHEVs should only be permitted with diesel burning engines, but I know that is probably not a realistic expectation at this point.

Does that mean that you believe petrol PHEVs shouldn't be sold, or that all diesel engined vehicles sold should be PHEV?

 

[HSTEd]

Does that mean that you believe petrol PHEVs shouldn't be sold, or that all diesel engined vehicles sold should be PHEV?

That petrol PHEV should not be sold.

Diesel is likely to be available in retail quantities for the forseable as a result of road haulage. However I expect a precipitous decline in petrol sales and then availability to occur in the lifetime of cars being sold today.

If petrol sales really do what the legal position implies then we could end up with a substantial fleet of stranded cars with no petrol available (at retail) to fuel them.

And unlike diesel people can't even order a heating oil style delivery for a bulk tank.

 

[AM9]

That petrol PHEV should not be sold.

Diesel is likely to be available in retail quantities for the forseable as a result of road haulage. However I expect a precipitous decline in petrol sales and then availability to occur in the lifetime of cars being sold today.

If petrol sales really do what the legal position implies then we could end up with a substantial fleet of stranded cars with no petrol available (at retail) to fuel them.

And unlike diesel people can't even order a heating oil style delivery for a bulk tank.

The disappearance of petrol from the retail chains would surely be pushed as a reason not to buy any more cars with any dependence on petrol, - petrolheads who do so would own the risk.