UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[bspahh]

I don't think so. Off the top of my head there are Tesla supercharger sites at Thetford, Norwich and Kings Lynn. Gridserve at Norwich. A brand whose name I forget at Necton. Shell and Ionity on the A11, several BP garages, and others that I'm not aware of. In addition, many town car parks have at least one combined unit offering DC and AC charging.

There are three toilets in my house. My in laws have two. There are toilets in lots of shops, pubs and car parks.

At the Norwich & Norfolk Hospital Zapmap says there are 25 charging points in the multistory car park at the top of this map. There are lots of other car parks, which don't have chargers, and they are more convenient for many of the wards. There are lots of toilets.



It is easier to find a toilet in Norfolk than it is to find a charger for an electric car.

I have had a recent PSA test for prostate cancer. If you are peeing more than usual, having a sudden urge to pee or getting up often in the night to pee, it would be good to get one too.

 

[Bald Rick]

500 miles is going to take at least 8 hours, and pretty much everyone will stop two or three times, one of which will likely be for a meal of some sort. Anyone not doing so is an edge case

Anyone driving 500miles+ in a day is an edge case! And those who claim they need to do it with minimal stops where charging is impractical is the razor thin sharp edge of the edge.

I do it about 6 times a year. I will usually stop twice, for a total of about an hour, and rarely I will do it with one carefully positioned stop. An EV will make little difference to me, I will depart fully charged and at the stop(s) charge up another couple of hundred miles. If that means I have to stop an extra time, or for a little longer, then so be it. It’s a small inconvenience for 6 trips a year compared to the massive convenience of never having to go to a petrol station again or pay more than 4-5p a mile for the other 200+ trips a year.

 

[The Ham]

indeed you would probably be best off flying in most cases on a journey of that length.

Or using rail

 

[RuddA]

There are three toilets in my house. My in laws have two. There are toilets in lots of shops, pubs and car parks.

At the Norwich & Norfolk Hospital Zapmap says there are 25 charging points in the multistory car park at the top of this map. There are lots of other car parks, which don't have chargers, and they are more convenient for many of the wards. There are lots of toilets.

View attachment 183944

It is easier to find a toilet in Norfolk than it is to find a charger for an electric car.

I have had a recent PSA test for prostate cancer. If you are peeing more than usual, having a sudden urge to pee or getting up often in the night to pee, it would be good to get one too.

I can think of far more locations with chargers than toilets in Norfolk.
Whilst driving in other parts of the country I have found it far easier to find a charger when required than I have a toilet.

 

[styles]

Tell that to Americans in the midwest who drive for 19 hours and take one or two breaks. They'll tell you with a big smile in a chirpy voice how long they drive for. You can get used to longer drives between breaks if you do it more often and are well rested when you start and pack food and drinks with you. That said I don't recommend it unless you have no other options.

Tell the Americans it's probably a factor in them having 4.9x the per capita road traffic related fatalities than the UK.

I might take advice on road safety from Scandinavian countries, but certainly not the US.

 

[The Ham]

Tell the Americans it's probably a factor in them having 4.9x the per capita road traffic related fatalities than the UK.

I might take advice on road safety from Scandinavian countries, but certainly not the US.

Whilst a US driver will do far more miles (which reduces the risk) they are still slightly more than twice as likely to die than someone driving in the UK (some may question if our rate would be lower still if there were fewer US personal and their spouses on the UK roads).

Im addition, there's a lot more which I would take advice from Scandinavian countries than the US.

 

[jon0844]

Anyone driving 500miles+ in a day is an edge case! And those who claim they need to do it with minimal stops where charging is impractical is the razor thin sharp edge of the edge.

I do it about 6 times a year. I will usually stop twice, for a total of about an hour, and rarely I will do it with one carefully positioned stop. An EV will make little difference to me, I will depart fully charged and at the stop(s) charge up another couple of hundred miles. If that means I have to stop an extra time, or for a little longer, then so be it. It’s a small inconvenience for 6 trips a year compared to the massive convenience of never having to go to a petrol station again or pay more than 4-5p a mile for the other 200+ trips a year.

Every day it gets harder to attack EVs so I guess range is one of the few things where an ICE car 'wins'. It matters not that most people drive 20 odd miles a day. Everyone must buy a car that can do that once-in-a-lifetime 800 mile trip to visit a sick family member.

I can't remember if I already posted this, but not too long ago there was a van driver who talked about the need to drive huge distances every day for work and how EV vans would never work for commercial drivers. As part of this, he posted a photo of his van and didn't obscure the licence plate. A quick online check revealed the mileage that was decidedly average, so he was probably doing around 30-40 miles a day at most - or 10-15 massively long journeys as he suggested and then the van spent the rest of the year parked up... Oopsie.

I don't think most people are ever doing this long trips, certainly not regularly, but until more EVs are offering 400+ miles it's a very easy way to win an argument on why ICE wins (and usually diesel, which I am so glad I no longer need to deal with). Just play down the need to stop, as that completely ruins the argument. But how does anyone prove how long or often someone needs to stop? Who is to say you couldn't drive for hours?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

Or using rail

These hypothetical emergencies are usually at 2am or something, so rail and air is probably out.

It will also be cold, because EVs don't have as good a range when cold.

Basically, as EVs become less of an issue, you have to keep coming up with edge case scenarios where an EV looks like a bad choice, or an impossible option.

Now what if you don't own a car at all? That's perhaps quite possible for a lot of people. My guess is you'd be so desperate to get somewhere quickly, you'd take a taxi and pay a hefty price. But that might be more preferable than driving yourself, especially if you're stressed/anxious.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was slightly surprised to see a 74 plate AA van which was diesel. Do electric vans not have enough range for that purpose?

 

[Sun Chariot]

I was slightly surprised to see a 74 plate AA van which was diesel. Do electric vans not have enough range for that purpose?

I think the slowest transitions to EV will be the emergency services and recovery vehicles; those which - typically- are away from their base for the full duration of the personnel's shift - out on the road or on a "shout".
Ambulances providing medical care while parked outside A&E (a worryingly frequent occurrence at Portsmouth's QA Hospital) and fire engines, those certainly have the means to recharge in between "shouts".

 

[jon0844]

I think the slowest transitions to EV will be the emergency services and recovery vehicles; those which - typically- are away from their base for the full duration of the personnel's shift - out on the road or on a "shout".
Ambulances providing medical care while parked outside A&E (a worryingly frequent occurrence at Portsmouth's QA Hospital) and fire engines, those certainly have the means to recharge in between "shouts".

Hydrogen is never going to be a thing for cars but maybe it can be viable for emergency vehicles.

I expect ambulances and fire engines can accommodate large batteries (and higher density batteries are coming) plus things like inductive charging for when stationary.

I think some forces now have electric cars for some of their fleet and the rapid acceleration is a bonus - with some models having no significant upper speed limit (which is often just software restricted anyway).

If every non commercial vehicle is electric then it's still going to be noticeably better for the air quality even if some emergency vehicles remain diesel for a while longer.

As for vans, there are now many vans with decent ranges and very rapid charging and improving all the time, but I wonder if the breakdown vehicles might be considered similar to an emergency vehicle.

 

[Snow1964]

Government announces subsidy grant for EVs priced under £37k

Drivers across the UK will soon enjoy discounts on dozens of new electric car models after the Transport Secretary today (15 July 2025) announced a £650 million grant scheme worth up to £3,750 per car, putting more money back in working people’s pockets as part of the Plan for Change and making owning an electric car a reality for thousands.

Supporting the manifesto commitment to phase out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, the £650 million Electric Car Grant (ECG) will back UK and other manufacturers, with eligibility dependent on the highest manufacturing sustainability standards. Discounts up to £3,750 will be available at the point of sale for new eligible electric cars priced at or under £37,000.

Drivers will start to benefit from discounts as soon as manufacturers successfully apply for their zero emission cars to be part of the grant scheme from 16 July 2025, with funding available until the 2028 to 2029 financial year.

With drivers citing upfront costs as a key barrier to adoption, the grant will narrow the upfront cost between petrol and electric vehicles, giving thousands more drivers access to savings of up to £1,500 a year in fuel and running costs compared to a petrol car. The discount means that zero emission cars are now cheaper to buy and run than ever before and comes on top of preferential tax rates, delivering real savings for working families.

Discount of up to £3,750 on electric cars set to slash costs for thousands

Car manufacturers can apply for the Electric Car Grant from 16 July 2025.

www.gov.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the slowest transitions to EV will be the emergency services and recovery vehicles; those which - typically- are away from their base for the full duration of the personnel's shift - out on the road or on a "shout".
Ambulances providing medical care while parked outside A&E (a worryingly frequent occurrence at Portsmouth's QA Hospital) and fire engines, those certainly have the means to recharge in between "shouts".

Ive seen EV police cars, fire engines, ambulances…

 

[bspahh]

As for vans, there are now many vans with decent ranges and very rapid charging and improving all the time, but I wonder if the breakdown vehicles might be considered similar to an emergency vehicle.

On June 10th, the weight limit for electric vehicles that you can drive with a category B driving license increased to 4.25 tonnes. There are still some differences between a 3.5 tonne diesel van and a 4.25 tonne electric one. A 4.25 tonne electric van is an HGV when it comes to getting an MOT test, has a 56 mph speed limiter, and needs a tacho unless it stays within 100km of the base.

 

[jon0844]

I didn't consider that side of things. Interesting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now what if you don't own a car at all? That's perhaps quite possible for a lot of people. My guess is you'd be so desperate to get somewhere quickly, you'd take a taxi and pay a hefty price. But that might be more preferable than driving yourself, especially if you're stressed/anxious.

The one time I have driven to a dying relative's bedside with no warning aside from them being old (they had had a stroke) I was indeed so shaken that looking back I probably should not have driven.

It was about 3pm and about 20 miles by the way, probably a more common scenario.

I should indeed have taken a taxi.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

Government announces subsidy grant for EVs priced under £37k

Discount of up to £3,750 on electric cars set to slash costs for thousands

Car manufacturers can apply for the Electric Car Grant from 16 July 2025.

www.gov.uk

For all I am supportive of EVs this doesn't seem a good use of money if it is as scarce as it is said to be.

 

[styles]

For all I am supportive of EVs this doesn't seem a good use of money if it is as scarce as it is said to be.

I'm always slightly uneasy about subsidising private motor vehicles in general.

However domestic transport does account for nearly a third of our GhG emissions, with petrol/diesel from road transport being the main source; and leaving the market to try and coax people into switching to greener cars is unlikely to pay off, so some sort of intervention is needed. I'd be more inclined to try to regulate or subsidise charging.

Really the best solution is to encourage more trips to be made by active travel or public transport. Not every trip can be done this way, but we should pick the 'right tool for the job', whereas once people own cars, we often default to driving.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd be more inclined to try to regulate or subsidise charging.

I agree. The charging network is the biggest barrier to adoption, not the purchase price now the used market is developing well and PCPs and leases are the main vehicle for new car acquisition.

I would also reintroduce the fuel duty escalator to make using an ICE car more expensive. RPI+1% maybe? Or even make the tax a percentage then it increases itself, or perhaps something like a 30-40% VAT rate on fuel sold for use in ICEs?

 

[bspahh]

I agree. The charging network is the biggest barrier to adoption, not the purchase price now the used market is developing well and PCPs and leases are the main vehicle for new car acquisition.

I would also reintroduce the fuel duty escalator to make using an ICE car more expensive. RPI+1% maybe? Or even make the tax a percentage then it increases itself, or perhaps something like a 30-40% VAT rate on fuel sold for use in ICEs?

I don't like taxes with a hard threshold. With this it sounds like a £36999 car will cost £33249 while a £37001 one will stay the same. That means that the cars that are just cheaper than the £37k threshold will be out of stock.

 

[styles]

I would also reintroduce the fuel duty escalator to make using an ICE car more expensive. RPI+1% maybe? Or even make the tax a percentage then it increases itself, or perhaps something like a 30-40% VAT rate on fuel sold for use in ICEs?

Yes I think freezing fuel duty for over a decade hasn't been particularly smart. A vote winner, sure, but it went on for so long that it's now difficult to bring back.

 

[Brubulus]

I don't like taxes with a hard threshold. With this it sounds like a £36999 car will cost £33249 while a £37001 one will stay the same. That means that the cars that are just cheaper than the £37k threshold will be out of stock.

It's designed to prevent claims for cars which had their price reduced to just get under the 40k tax threshold, and Teslas. There's also going to be "sustainability" requirements for cars to get the grant, which will likely be used against Chinese cars.

I don't think this is the right approach, the focus should be on affordable on-street charging and on moving taxi and private hire fully over to EVs

 

[Sun Chariot]

Ive seen EV police cars, fire engines, ambulances…

Indeed, you and I touched on this back in mid Aoril.

Post #5100 made an interesting observation about London Ambulance Service's full EV vehicle: "LAS paramedic told my other half that it could only manage half a shift before needing a recharge"

As #5260's poster highlights, perhaps the introduction of higher-density batteries and inductive charging, will enable a fast top-up for fire engines at a fire station / for ambulances providing extra A&E care whilst parked outside the (over-full) A&E unit.
Ditto police vehicles operating within a relatively tight radius from base, as they will hold range for a full shift even when being driven hard on "shouts".
Breakdown recovery vehicles likely fall into this camp as well.

I think the tail-end of EV adoption, will be with the likes of the "interceptor" police vehicles: those which need to cover large distances (across counties in cases) and being driven hard multiple times during a, say, eight hour stint away from base. The usage of top-ups at commercial fast charger facilties, is perhaps one mitigating option.

 

[jon0844]

On the plus side, in future years high speed car chases are going to involve both police and criminals driving an EV. Maybe limited range will be a plus!

Or perhaps both cars will have to stop periodically to charge up before continuing...

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the plus side, in future years high speed car chases are going to involve both police and criminals driving an EV. Maybe limited range will be a plus!

Or perhaps both cars will have to stop periodically to charge up before continuing...

I wonder when the last 200+ mile car chase took place? I'm going with "never".

 

[bangor-toad]

My first long drive EV trip report

We recently purchased a second hand MG ZS EV. It's a few years old and we bought it for £11k. It was slightly more than an equivalent petrol engine car. There just weren't any hybrids available (we're in Northern Ireland).
The MG has been great driving around town doing the short distances. But we needed to travel across Ireland for a few days - a 250 mile trip each way. We decided to take the MG...

The car drove well and we stopped to charge before leaving Northern Ireland. All was good.
The first challenge was near Dublin where the supposedly 'fast' chargers only were giving out 1kW. Not helpful and a failure mode we hadn't expected.
Then the second challenge came trying to get the various apps to work to pay for charging. An Irish app and a Northern Irish payment card do not make happy partners.
After taking far longer than anticipated we arrived at our destination with an uncomfortable level of charge.

Fortunately the AirBnB owner let us charge using the granny charger so that took the pressure off.
We did find a fast charger at our destination that we could use but it still had issues with a Northern Irish payment card.

On the way back with steady motorway driving the range was unsurprisingly lower requiring two charges.


Looking back to the trip it was a mistake to take the EV rather than the diesel estate.
The EV is great for town driving but is frustrating for the longer runs. The return trip took nearly an hour longer due to recharging. If I'd been driving the diesel that would have been an easy and nonstop run home.

Will we get rid of the EV because of this negative experience?
Of course not. It's great around the town and locality. But for us, any longer trips remain with the diesel.

Cheers.
Mr Toad

 

[Sun Chariot]

I wonder when the last 200+ mile car chase took place? I'm going with "never".

Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock would be twitchy:  the film Speed would be shorter and with an inevitable outcome

 

[styles]

On the plus side, in future years high speed car chases are going to involve both police and criminals driving an EV. Maybe limited range will be a plus!

Or perhaps both cars will have to stop periodically to charge up before continuing...

The police will win, just as they currently do, because the police basically have a near-endless supply of vehicles from Wick to Penzance which can take over if one starts to run low on fuel while chasing somebody.

Well, that's in the absence of the criminal managing to lose the police anyway.

Edit: out of curiosity, I did some Googling..

141mi in the UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-68067700
450mi in NZ: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...olice-720-kilometre-high-speed-car-chase.html

 

[jon0844]

Assuming the police don't buy Dacia Springs for pursuits, they should manage 141 miles no problem. Clearly it won't have been the same car following that entire time anyway!

The police also take breaks so there's charging time there. Let them use a BP or Shell station as they're usually empty because people avoid them due to the price!

 

[Backroom_boy]

Ive seen EV police cars, fire engines, ambulances…

Interestingly BTP is further ahead than most police services in EVs. And they do more mileage than most as they are so thinly spread

 

[styles]

Interestingly BTP is further ahead than most police services in EVs. And they do more mileage than most as they are so thinly spread

Arguably less likely to be involved in a pursuit with another motor vehicle mind?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Police may increasingly need to be using (dual motor, probably) EVs to keep up with crooks who are driving one; not particularly in top speed terms, but almost certainly in acceleration. There aren't many ICEs that will do 0-60 in 3.7 seconds, yet you can buy a new one for around £30k (MG4 XPower, discounted - see AutoTrader).