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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

CSB0241

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22 Apr 2023
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I’ve heard a rumour that Lothian have ordered some new diesel buses, new single decks and new airlinks potentially. Goes against the all electric fleet but with no government grant to help purchase electrics, could this be why they might need to rethink the timeline on going fully electric. Again it’s a rumour so might be nonsense
I've heard a rumour the Airlink will be MCV B8L Tri axles, here's hoping! Probably the last new diesel buses if so.
Ideal if so. Only credible options.

The single decks could be smaller Evora’s for the ECB council routes. Else I wouldn’t think there’s a chance of anything else singles wise.
I think single deck full length BZL single decks are part of it, i'd imagine to replace the early 7900s.
I think these are all safe guesses. New Evoras (maybe 96-100?) could let 191-3 potentially even be sold off (bit of an odd idea, sure, but they are definitely a bit of an oddity in the Lothian fleet), & new BZL single deckers replacing the 13-plate 7900Hs feels somewhat reasonable. B8L Evosetis would work well in tandom with XLBs & the Evoras.

Have they gone to the Traffic commissioner? or are we looking for the 25th August at the planned date?
10th August seems a more realistic date to align with school returning, and to give enough time for the announcement and preparation of the main network change afterwhich, as that'll probably take place on the 7th or 14th September.
Definitely a bit late, but I think that if anything were to be happening in August, we’d have heard about the Traffic Commissioners getting data & that by now. Probably nothing until September now.

Are they still looking for mid August to start making minor improvements to Lothian Country services or are they getting pushed back to September?
Think it will be September at this rate, which is a shame as I feel as if they could of done it sooner.
That’s fair, though I do definitely think that it’d be better for all the changes to be done at once instead of just sprinkling them around 2 or 3 dates in around a month.

I do feel like it would make sense to open a depot in Midlothian for routes which operate there. Possibly in East Coast Buses branding which should allow them to convert some routes over to that brand. Obviously the pay issue would need to be resolved before that happened but it would free up some space at Longstone and Central.
I do think that a depot near, say, Cockpen would be a good bet. Services 3, 29, 31, 46, 48, 139, 140, & 141 could be ran from it, maybe the 37/47 too.

There was long rumours of Lothian opening a 'mega-depot' in the Queen Margaret University area to replace Marine, Seafield and Musselburgh. No idea how much truth there was to this, probably very little, but a big argument for it was the Seafield developments the council are looking at which would likely see Marine and Seafield both demolished. With new developments at QMU progressing it seems unrealistic now that there would be a depot placed there, however it would be interesting to see where Lothian would consider opening a garage to replace Marine/Seafield should they have to. Any new garage incorporating East Coast buses would be fantastic for increasing capacity with how constrained Musselburgh is.
This is exactly what I thought of when stevenedin brought up depots. I do think that there is a chance they could open up this megadepot maybe a bit across from the service station at Old Craighall.

There currently look to be buses operating a route "GX1" between Longniddry and Gullane; is this open to the public? Or do they check and let on golfers only?
it is for those travelling to the golf from Longniddry train station, and then doing the return journeys at the day goes on
I’ll also add that entry is free to anyone, you could just rock up to the temporary stops at Longniddry Station & just hop on.
 
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VioletEclipse

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I forgot all about the 109, that was a throwback, it was rarely talked about, up untill the N28 was introduced and they withdrew the 109 (after finally announcing the service to the public for the first time since the 90's)
I believe service 109 had the same timetable from 2003 until 2019 when it was withdrawn
 

TheEastCoaster

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I believe service 109 had the same timetable from 2003 until 2019 when it was withdrawn

Its impressed that one service had a consistent timetable for 16 years, to be fair though it's not like they could of changed much for what was a staff service! :D

Saying that, I'm sure the N28 was meant to replace it during the week, but it only has one Edinburgh bound journey during the weekend, I'm sure there was a Deans - Longstone journey back in 2019?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Its impressed that one service had a consistent timetable for 16 years, to be fair though it's not like they could of changed much for what was a staff service! :D

Saying that, I'm sure the N28 was meant to replace it during the week, but it only has one Edinburgh bound journey during the weekend, I'm sure there was a Deans - Longstone journey back in 2019?
Two of the first three current X28’s pretty much cover the last two 109’s. Clearly it’s much slower than the 109 ever was, but I suppose the 109 was not really expected to stop much and took a much more direct route so it’s difficult to say which two, so draw your own conclusions on that.

From memory the 109 left Longstone at 0330, 0430 and 0530 and from Deans at 0400, 0500 and 0600. One bus (almost always a single decker) just going back and forth.
 

DunsBus

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Two of the first three current X28’s pretty much cover the last two 109’s. Clearly it’s much slower than the 109 ever was, but I suppose the 109 was not really expected to stop much and took a much more direct route so it’s difficult to say which two, so draw your own conclusions on that.

From memory the 109 left Longstone at 0330, 0430 and 0530 and from Deans at 0400, 0500 and 0600. One bus (almost always a single decker) just going back and forth.
The 109 started off as an LRT staff bus - it became part of the network when the 9/X9 from St Andrew Square out to Deans started in June 1991.
 

Resuwen

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East Lothian
Given all the delays with BZL deliveries and remedial work required on the early ones, it beggars belief if the rumour above about offering MCV vehicles for Airlink proves to be true.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Given all the delays with BZL deliveries and remedial work required on the early ones, it beggars belief if the rumour above about offering MCV vehicles for Airlink proves to be true.
The issue is diesel wise there’s not another practical option. Only MCV body the B8L for the UK market these days. The B5TL was discontinued not long after Lothian’s MMC’s were delivered.

They could’ve gone with the Yutong option, but clearly the product would be non standard amongst a nearly all Volvo fleet. As has been said, a suitable Volvo electric option does not exist yet so you’re left with two options. Evoseti’s, or refurbish the existing stock. The former is the only practical option of those two. A rare circumstance but nevertheless still logical.
 

scosutsut

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Given all the delays with BZL deliveries and remedial work required on the early ones, it beggars belief if the rumour above about offering MCV vehicles for Airlink proves to be true.
Does it? If they stopped using a supplier every time something didn't go right, they'd not have anyone to turn to.

Zero emission vehicles are having teething issues everywhere, look around at BYD electrics in Glasgow needing recalled for roofs. Hydrogen Wrights needing to go back to Ireland for work, Next gen Alexander Dennis electrics having issues from the word go down south...

I'd imagine Volvo will have made promises and/or gestures to keep a loyal customer happy.
 

Lothiangem22

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30 Jan 2019
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Airlink vehicles have been micro fleets in the past… remember the scania’s…
These are diesel lwb dual door, however I’m limited as to what I can release. These will arrive this year and information hopefully available towards year end
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Possible options;
E400 MMC
Evoseti
I presume you mean E400XLB? That’s what the body on the existing ones is. It’s based on the E400mmc but is slightly different due to the length. ADL only make integrals now. I did refer to the limited options in my previous post.
Airlink vehicles have been micro fleets in the past… remember the scania’s…
These are diesel lwb dual door, however I’m limited as to what I can release. These will arrive this year and information hopefully available towards year end
It can definitely happen but it’s rare. Weren’t the Scania’s part of a deal? Obviously you had the first 5 delivered in 2006 (995-999) which was before the release of the B9TL to the UK market. I can only assume the 10 later examples (985-994) which were 57 plates were ordered simply to maintain the same fleet as surely B9TL’s would’ve been available by then.
 

Bus9120UK

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Worth throwing out there that long wheel base doesn't strictly mean it'll be tri-axles.
Although I am probably overthinking it, the comment on micro-fleets at the start may or may not also imply that these could be non-Volvo vehicles.

My personal preference would still be any form of tri-axle B8L. The capacity is much needed and this is obviously already a familiar chassis within the business.
 

Haribolover06

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scosutsut

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scosutsut
Airlink vehicles have been micro fleets in the past… remember the scania’s…
These are diesel lwb dual door, however I’m limited as to what I can release. These will arrive this year and information hopefully available towards year end
Volvo B8L with MCV D123 bodywork is my hope & guess.

12.8m unless they'll crank out a 13.4m variant.

Although MCV owe them as much as Volvo do so possibly!
 

computerSaysNo

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Possible options;
E400 MMC
Evoseti
I presume you mean E400XLB? That’s what the body on the existing ones is. It’s based on the E400mmc but is slightly different due to the length. ADL only make integrals now. I did refer to the limited options in my previous post.
I'd assume the E500MMC could be built for the UK? That would satisfy the requirements for dual door and high capacity. I can't see Alexander Dennis being willing to E400MMC XLB body a very small number of B8Ls as a one-off order.
Volvo B8L with MCV D123 bodywork is my hope & guess.
I agree this is the most likely.
 

Lx008

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16 Jul 2023
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Edinburgh
What is actually the difference between the E400XLB and a E500MMC, from what I can see online, the 500mmc was only ever built for Asia, but I don’t think the regulations in Singapore or HK are much different.

On a entirely separate note, wouldnt a Volvo 8900 be ideal for East Lothian services, especially the X7, it offers a more seating than the current wrights, is still low enough for bridges, can make it round the bends with rear axle steering and has been proven all over Europe to be excellent on these exact types of city to country services so won’t tire-out anywhere near as quick as the deckers and singles currently used
 

scosutsut

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What is actually the difference between the E400XLB and a E500MMC, from what I can see online, the 500mmc was only ever built for Asia, but I don’t think the regulations in Singapore or HK are much different.

On a entirely separate note, wouldnt a Volvo 8900 be ideal for East Lothian services, especially the X7, it offers a more seating than the current wrights, is still low enough for bridges, can make it round the bends with rear axle steering and has been proven all over Europe to be excellent on these exact types of city to country services so won’t tire-out anywhere near as quick as the deckers and singles currently used
E400 XLB is on a Volvo B8L chassis and E500 MMC is an all Alexander Dennis product - the chassis is built in house (l suspect a continued evolution of the Trident family of chassis.)

Not sure the 8900 has ever been offered in Right Hand Drive, let alone the UK.

Reseating the Eclipse 3 with the more commonly specced seats would boost capacity to near Evora levels I reckon which would help considerably but given they are mid life right now and wearing well, I suspect that won't happen.
 

overthewater

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Any news on when the service change will take place in either West lothian or Edinburgh itself? looks like were heading for 1st September.
 

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