First ETCS train operates on the East Coast Mainline

[Intercity_225]

Realtime Trains | 5Z01 1123 Crofton Depot to Welwyn G.C. F.D. | 14/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Z01 1123 departure from Crofton Depot to Welwyn G.C. F.D. on 14/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q80 0715 Welwyn G.C. F.D. to Finsbury Park | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q80 0715 departure from Welwyn G.C. F.D. to Finsbury Park on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0800 Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0800 departure from Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q82 0851 Huntingdon Sig P40 to Finsbury Park | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q82 0851 departure from Huntingdon Sig P40 to Finsbury Park on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q83 0940 Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q83 0940 departure from Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q84 1040 Huntingdon Sig P40 to Finsbury Park | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q84 1040 departure from Huntingdon Sig P40 to Finsbury Park on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q85 1145 Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q85 1145 departure from Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q86 1231 Huntingdon Sig P40 to Finsbury Park | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q86 1231 departure from Huntingdon Sig P40 to Finsbury Park on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q87 1345 Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 | 15/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q87 1345 departure from Finsbury Park to Huntingdon Sig P40 on 15/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like 180108 will be doing ETCS testing tomorrow.

 

[erikvd28]

Will ETCS increase the capacity of the Northern City Line as well?

 

[Vexed]

Will ETCS increase the capacity of the Northern City Line as well?

It won't be much different to Digswell, yes a small increase but I doubt much of an impact on timetables.

The bigger issue is the lack of services Great Northern is running compared to pre-Covid, which was on the old signalling of course. Which itself was life expired. Aside from Network Rail's ETCS ambitions and the East Coast Digital Programme, the 717s already have ETCS and GTR had previous experience in the Thameslink core so it made sense to replace the old signalling with ETCS, it wasn't done for capacity reasons.

 

[zwk500]

Will ETCS increase the capacity of the Northern City Line as well?

Specifically between Drayton Park and Moor gate, I believe the block markers are exactly where the previous signals were. There will be a small increase in capacity from things like the MA being continuously updated but not a significant step change.

 

[St. Paddy]

Will ETCS increase the capacity of the Northern City Line as well?

Not until the GSMR is upgraded, current limit of 6 trains on level 2 on the NCL at a time

 

[Failed Unit]

It is interesting that realtraintimes still shows signals on the Northern City line. As a passenger you can’t tell the difference (except all 6 coaches now open the doors at Drayton Park). I don’t think it will increase capacity as they don’t like trains leaving stations unless they know they can enter the next station.

Watch one happen next week, however not had any diverts to Kings Cross since it was turned on.

 

[zwk500]

It is interesting that realtraintimes still shows signals on the Northern City line.

That's just a visual thing. Other sites show only the block marker boards now. Presumably given its a like-for-like swap the data hasn't changed for the TD Berths.

 

[St. Paddy]

Realtime Trains | 5Q77 0950 Old Dalby to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 14/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q77 0950 departure from Old Dalby to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 14/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It seems 387101 might finally have passed its testing and be returning home after around 3 years away

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Realtime Trains | 5Q77 0950 Old Dalby to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 14/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q77 0950 departure from Old Dalby to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 14/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It seems 387101 might finally have passed its testing and be returning home after around 3 years away

And now they need to fit like 12 more 387s and the 379s

 

[D365]

And now they need to fit like 12 more 387s and the 379s

Class 379 - time for another Alstom first in class!

 

[Pep and co]

RTT indicates this is running. Can someone confirm this is 387101 returning to Hornsey.
Thanks in advance for any updates

 

[St. Paddy]

RTT indicates this is running. Can someone confirm this is 387101 returning to Hornsey.
Thanks in advance for any updates

Yes it was

 

[Pep and co]

Yes it was

Thanks for the confirmation. Have to look out for it next time I'm in the area

 

[zwk500]

Digital Siganlling Equipment on Freight Locomotives Progresses

Further work to fit the European Train Control System (ETCS) digital in-cab signalling equipment has begun for freight locomotives.

www.railadvent.co.uk

RailAdvent reporting that the first 'others in class' fitment on GBRf Class 66's is underway. Does anybody know what the progress/eventual numbers plan is for the various FOCs?

 

[hwl]

Digital Siganlling Equipment on Freight Locomotives Progresses

Further work to fit the European Train Control System (ETCS) digital in-cab signalling equipment has begun for freight locomotives.

www.railadvent.co.uk

RailAdvent reporting that the first 'others in class' fitment on GBRf Class 66's is underway. Does anybody know what the progress/eventual numbers plan is for the various FOCs?

This is effectively another first in class because it was discovered that a lot of design changes occurred in the 66s over their production life and the initial ETCS firt in class only look at the initial batch of EWS/DB locomotives with the contract being awarded to DB-ESG who unsurprisingly apparently showed no interest in anything but the EWS/DB spec locomotives.

About 2 years ago the other 66 operating FOCs brought this issue up with NR (the existing first in class not being applicable to non DB-locomotives) resulting in another later 66 first in class by a different team (EMD / Siemens (ETCS) / Hasler (new ETCS compatible OTMR). (Siemens being the default loco ETCS equipment provider and Hasler the default OTMR for ETCS system provider)

As usual another zero research /fact checked Rail Advent article that could easily have been improved by a quick google search.

 

[D365]

This is effectively another first in class because it was discovered that a lot of design changes occurred in the 66s over their production life...

Not to mention the wiring and pipework changes when comparing one 66 to the next... I have no idea how anyone keeps track of drawing numbers.

 

[zwk500]

This is effectively another first in class because it was discovered that a lot of design changes occurred in the 66s over their production life and the initial ETCS firt in class only look at the initial batch of EWS/DB locomotives with the contract being awarded to DB-ESG who unsurprisingly apparently showed no interest in anything but the EWS/DB spec locomotives.

About 2 years ago the other 66 operating FOCs brought this issue up with NR (the existing first in class not being applicable to non DB-locomotives) resulting in another later 66 first in class by a different team (EMD / Siemens (ETCS) / Hasler (new ETCS compatible OTMR). (Siemens being the default loco ETCS equipment provider and Hasler the default OTMR for ETCS system provider)

As usual another zero research /fact checked Rail Advent article that could easily have been improved by a quick google search.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I'd googled around for freight fitment and was getting no other results except the NR/DB press releases for the initial first-in-class fitment.

No wonder ETCS is taking so long to get any momentum around it if every Class 66 is going to need FIC treatment! Does anybody know how many locos (and whether any other classes) are planned to be fitted for ETCS by each FOC?

 

[D365]

No wonder ETCS is taking so long to get any momentum around it if every Class 66 is going to need FIC treatment! Does anybody know how many locos (and whether any other classes) are planned to be fitted for ETCS by each FOC?

There is a list, however I don’t believe that it is public domain. But given, as you say, that Class 66 is taking so long, it’s anyone’s guess how many of the operational freight and charter locomotives will actually be fitted.

 

[zwk500]

There is a list, however I don’t believe that it is public domain. But given, as you say, that Class 66 is taking so long, it’s anyone’s guess how many of the operational freight and charter locomotives will actually be fitted.

A small bump to this thread, DB Cargo have announced the start of ETCS fitment to 9 Class 66s at Toton TMD, using Siemens equipment: https://www.globalrailwayreview.com...lass-66-locomotives-at-toton-depot-this-week/

Interesting just how much work was apparently required at Toton to being fitment of ETCS:

Neil Ethell, DB Cargo UK’s Chief Operating Officer and ERTMS Project Sponsor, said: “Mobilisation work had been underway at Toton for several months to facilitate the delivery of the new contract. This has seen the installation of a new load bank, wash plant and overhead cranes, as well as new accommodation to co-locate staff from Siemens Mobility on the site.”

 

[zwk500]

(Doublepost likely)

Apologies to Bump the post again, does anybody have any updates from the ECDP testing over the bank holiday? There's been no press releases straight after that I could find.

 

[D365]

It’s not strictly related to ETCS equipped trains operating on ECML - but as ECDP ”Freight ETCS” is funding the fitment of Class 66s, I figured I’d continue the discussion here.

From the Class 197 thread:

(I've heard that the 97s may be replaced by ETCS-fitted 66s, but I believe that would be after the 158s were replaced by the 197s).

Even within their current RA7 (route availability) classification, the Class 66s are already bordering on RA8. Hence why it was specifically the RA5 Class 37s that were fitted with ETCS for the Cambrian route.

Following the example of Tornado - which is, of course, another high RA locomotive - has there been any indication that ETCS fitted Class 66s will be tested or operated on the Cambrian route?

 

[brad465]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, but for all the talk of 125mph+ potential under ETCS, are there slow line stretches where the line speed can be increased as a result of ETCS? Given the restrictive 3-aspect signalling and 70-80mph linespeed, having 90-100mph on the slow lines, especially north of Stevenage, and in time York-Northallerton too, can improve journey times and allow better flexibility for passenger services to use the slow lines without running slower (if their top speed is 90-100mph), providing more fast line capacity/flexibility.

 

[Belperpete]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, but for all the talk of 125mph+ potential under ETCS, are there slow line stretches where the line speed can be increased as a result of ETCS? Given the restrictive 3-aspect signalling and 70-80mph linespeed, having 90-100mph on the slow lines, especially north of Stevenage, and in time York-Northallerton too, can improve journey times and allow better flexibility for passenger services to use the slow lines without running slower (if their top speed is 90-100mph), providing more fast line capacity/flexibility.

If there is currently a 70-80 mph linespeed, then the track will only be maintained to that standard. If the linespeed is to be increased, it is likely that more than just the signalling will need to change. However, it would potentially be a lot easier to upgrade the linespeed with ETCS if there aren't lots of signals to be respaced.

 

[zwk500]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, but for all the talk of 125mph+ potential under ETCS,

>125mph on the legacy network is a red herring, there are very few places it's possible and even less it'll be useful.

are there slow line stretches where the line speed can be increased as a result of ETCS? Given the restrictive 3-aspect signalling and 70-80mph linespeed, having 90-100mph on the slow lines, especially north of Stevenage, and in time York-Northallerton too, can improve journey times and allow better flexibility for passenger services to use the slow lines without running slower (if their top speed is 90-100mph), providing more fast line capacity/flexibility.

Linespeed is dependent on something like 70+ factors (@Bald Rick has mentioned before), so ETCS alone will not likely result in any direct plain line speed upgrades. However one thing ETCS can do is improve train speeds approaching crossovers and junctions with a lower diverging speed, as the Speed Supervision will eliminate the need for approach control/release signalling controls.
Another thing ETCS offers is that the block sections no longer need to be spaced so that the service braking distance is within the aspect sequence that can be shown to the driver. This means that upgrading linespeed need not result in respacing all the Block Markers/EoA Boards, as @Belperpete mentions.

 

[brad465]

If there is currently a 70-80 mph linespeed, then the track will only be maintained to that standard. If the linespeed is to be increased, it is likely that more than just the signalling will need to change. However, it would potentially be a lot easier to upgrade the linespeed with ETCS if there aren't lots of signals to be respaced.

I did think that, but given the fast lines they are parallel to can do 125mph, upping the maintenance standards for these wouldn't be as difficult as for a completely separate line (and have a cost efficiency).

 

[zwk500]

I did think that, but given the fast lines they are parallel to can do 125mph, upping the maintenance standards for these wouldn't be as difficult as for a completely separate line (and have a cost efficiency).

I highly doubt having adjacent lines 125mph makes anything easier for maintenance, otherwise there'd be a lot more stretches of 4-track 125mph. AFAIK the only stretch where all 4 lines are 125mph for any speed profile is on the Trent Valley (between Amington Jn and south of Rugeley).

After all, each track needs it's own setup for cant, OLE, structure clearances, platform edges, etc...

 

[Bald Rick]

I did think that, but given the fast lines they are parallel to can do 125mph, upping the maintenance standards for these wouldn't be as difficult as for a completely separate line (and have a cost efficiency).

the Permanent Way standards with linespeed tend to ‘jump’ in chunks. It’s principally about inspection frequency and componentry. Of course there is also alignment. Other things to think about on the ECML are OLE componentry and tension, power supply, aerodynamic issues at stations and structures, and formation / earthworks condition, with the slows on the outside.

 

[HSTEd]

ETCS may allow speed increases by eliminating the restriction on number of different differential speed limits that can be provided on signs, which I think is no more than three?

ETCS can provide a different speed limit for each of many defined types of trains and properly enforce all of them.

 

[Edvid]

As per the ECDP site it seems four in six weekends between 17 January and 22 February 2026 will involve ECML closures south of Peterborough / Royston, save for the first weekend when long-distance services will divert via Hertford North and Cambridge.

Could be indicative of Welwyn GC - Hitchin going live late winter.

 

[St. Paddy]

Driver’s Reps have been advised the plan for rollout of ETCS for GTR Drivers between Hitchin and Welwyn is July 26 for 717s and October 26 for 700s. No further details at this time or any reason why there are different dates.