WirralLine
Member
044 alone apparently. 004 was dragged from Chester Yard to Chester depot a few days ago though.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
- Thread starter hexagon789
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The Cambrian Main Line (Aberystwyth - Shrewsbury) can only just accomodate the long-awaited hourly service (which already exists on Sundays). Since that involves trains passing at Dovey Junction (where there is only a passing loop on the Aberystwyth platform and not the Cambrian Coast side) movements between the Cambrian Coast Line and Machynlleth are limited to one every two hours (unless you forgo connections with the main line) because the line between Dovey Junction and Machynlleth is occupied by the Aberystwyth services. This presumably makes it difficult to path any additional workings (eg. freight or, in this case, crew training workings); there are already complaints tha, when the Belmond luxury train runs, it causes cancellation of a TfW service train. Any daytime training would certainly have to be limited to shuttles over a small section of the line (perhaps Welshpool - Newtown which, as a 30 miniute round trip, might just be able to stay out of the way of the public services).
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Castle Donington (Leics) also has 3 ns, while Donnington (Salop) has 4.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Donnington RFT is empty now. Nothing there.
WirralLine
Member
It ended up on the Liverpools today replacing 197001.
Looks like it should have gone to Birmingham On 1I00 this morning but failed before departure leading to that one being short formed and not making International, it then replaced a pair of 158s running late then also replaced 001 so a bit of a mixed first day.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Many thanks for letting us know @sd0733
The entry into service of 197026 today (21/9/25) now means that 69 (of 77) 197s have been in service @Peter Sarf and everyone. I think that's nice.
43 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
13 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022, 197024, 197026-031, 197033-036)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 8, all ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197023, 197025, 197032, 197037-041
Of these, 6 are understood to have been delivered:
197023, 197025, 197032, 197037-039
And 2 are understood to have not yet been delivered:
197040-041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 104 (of 148):
43 (of 51) 197/0s
All 26 197/1s
All 11 231s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 44 new TfW trains still to enter service:
8 197/0s
36 398s
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
By the way, @sd0733, do you happen to know when Class 197 Cambrian driver training will start?
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks for the update @tfw756riderMany thanks for letting us know @sd0733
The entry into service of 197026 today (21/9/25) now means that 69 (of 77) 197s have been in service @Peter Sarf and everyone. I think that's nice.
43 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
13 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022, 197024, 197026-031, 197033-036)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 8, all ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197023, 197025, 197032, 197037-041
Of these, 6 are understood to have been delivered:
197023, 197025, 197032, 197037-039
And 2 are understood to have not yet been delivered:
197040-041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 104 (of 148):
43 (of 51) 197/0s
All 26 197/1s
All 11 231s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 44 new TfW trains still to enter service:
8 197/0s
36 398s
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
By the way, @sd0733, do you happen to know when Class 197 Cambrian driver training will start?
As the number of ETCS fitted 197s that have seen service is thirteen of which nine currently in use I think (so almost half) I wonder if things are hotting up for introduction on the Cambrian OR is it all down to covering for other out of action 197s ?.
How many non ETCS 197s are out of action (presumably mostly at Hollyhead) ?.
The real proof will be what is surplus once enough of the 398s go into service and allow the Flirts (231s & 756s) to move onto their planned service groups which then allows the 197s to appear only where they are planned to.
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Good that another 197 has entered service. I do wonder however, how TFW are going to manage once the 197s are needed on the Cambrian given so many are currently covering on other services.
On the 1231 ex Manchester today formed of 4 cars I was really surprised how busy it was leaving Manchester until Crewe where it got quieter. I noticed at Piccadilly they announced it would be formed of 4 cars to Cardiff and then split but all 4 cars went through certainly as far as Swansea. I notice they often give out the incorrect info on the automated annoucement. RTT was more accurate as it had all 4 cars to Carmarthen.
On the 1231 ex Manchester today formed of 4 cars I was really surprised how busy it was leaving Manchester until Crewe where it got quieter. I noticed at Piccadilly they announced it would be formed of 4 cars to Cardiff and then split but all 4 cars went through certainly as far as Swansea. I notice they often give out the incorrect info on the automated annoucement. RTT was more accurate as it had all 4 cars to Carmarthen.
i dont believe it will be any time soon. From what i understand theres some issues getting both 158s and 197s working together on ERTMS, thats why 197s have only been on small sections of the ERTMS sections overnight recently.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks for the reply, that's unfortunate to hear.
Service 158s and test 197s did work "together" in broad daylight on the Cambrian in July and August 2024, but I'm guessing something wasn't quite right.
Hopefully, whatever the issues are exactly, solutions can be found for them.
If not, then I suppose the last resort would be to put on rail replacement buses while Cambrian 197 driver training takes place?
It's not necessarily just the 197s and 158s conflicting though - what about the 197s and 97s? (I've heard that the 97s may be replaced by ETCS-fitted 66s, but I believe that would be after the 158s were replaced by the 197s).
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Am I missing something. Activated path today Donnington Crewe. Should have departed 10.06 but hasnt.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Probably auto activated - you can tell because the activation time (7:06) is a round number of hours before scheduled departure time (10:06). It will then get cancelled when someone notices !.
Realtime Trains | 6Q97 1006 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 22/09/2025
Real-time train running information for 6Q97 1006 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 22/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Then again Donnington may be empty as regards 197s but perhaps still have some freight wagons there.
By now (10:30) it is looking like the path will whimper and die.
As I check - it has now been cancelled.
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It was planned to start but as it stands its been postponed as its likely to lapse.
A more pressing concern is to be able to get the 231s onto the routes they're intended for to release 197s, until that happens there aren't enough units anyway. Theres now 9 ERTMS sets propping up the mainline fleet, that doesn't give many to play with to go onto the Cambrian.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Ah yeah, thanks.
We're waiting for the 398s to enter service, which will allow the 756/1s to move to their intended services, which in turn will allow the 231s to move to their intended services, which in turn will release 197s from the services intended for the 231s, which will finally make all ETCS-fitted 197s available to the Cambrian.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
There are paths in daily but always get cancelled unless a 197 is there and it runs.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
There is some wagons at Donnington RFT that have been around for years.Probably auto activated - you can tell because the activation time (7:06) is a round number of hours before scheduled departure time (10:06). It will then get cancelled when someone notices !.
Realtime Trains | 6Q97 1006 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 22/09/2025
Real-time train running information for 6Q97 1006 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 22/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Then again Donnington may be empty as regards 197s but perhaps still have some freight wagons there.
By now (10:30) it is looking like the path will whimper and die.
As I check - it has now been cancelled.
Thank you.Probably auto activated - you can tell because the activation time (7:06) is a round number of hours before scheduled departure time (10:06). It will then get cancelled when someone notices !.
Realtime Trains | 6Q97 1006 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 22/09/2025
Real-time train running information for 6Q97 1006 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 22/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Then again Donnington may be empty as regards 197s but perhaps still have some freight wagons there.
By now (10:30) it is looking like the path will whimper and die.
As I check - it has now been cancelled.
wythallpaul
Member
Tuesday 23rd September 2025.
Anybody shed any light on the running of 1D15 today? RTT is very sketchy after Gobowen and even quotes 197001+197049 to Gobowen for 197014 forward to Holyhead! Bit of a mystery that.
Anybody shed any light on the running of 1D15 today? RTT is very sketchy after Gobowen and even quotes 197001+197049 to Gobowen for 197014 forward to Holyhead! Bit of a mystery that.
MP393
Member
There’s an ongoing trespass incident at Wrexham, 1D15 reversed at Gobowen and went back to Shrewsbury. 197014 restarted the train right time at Chester, hence the RTT Mix-up.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
Ongoing trespass incident at Wrexham. Lines blocked. After being held at Gobowen, 1D15 was turned back to Shrewsbury. Service restarted from Chester with 197014
wythallpaul
Member
Thank you very much for the explanation. I hope there were no Passengers on 1D15 going to Holyhead to catch a Ferry.
rich.davies
Member
Just been on that unit, thought it was looking all shiny and clean.
I love it when they first come into service. They smell nice as well!
tfw756rider
On Moderation
New 197 smell, I know exactly what you mean
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Many thanks for letting us know @Jez
The entry into service of 197037 today (2/10/25) now means that 70 (of 77) 197s have been in service @Peter Sarf and everyone.
44 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
14 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022, 197024, 197026-031, 197033-037)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 7, all ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197023, 197025, 197032, 197038-041
Of these, 5 are understood to have been delivered:
197023, 197025, 197032, 197038-039
And 2 are understood to have not yet been delivered:
197040-041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 105 (of 148):
44 (of 51) 197/0s
All 26 197/1s
All 11 231s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 43 new TfW trains still to enter service:
7 197/0s
36 398s
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philip simpkin
Member
- Joined
- 14 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 26
Thanks Gordonman. I would suggest 197039 went back to Crewe as seen this evening at Shotton on 5Q75 Holyhead to Crewe which is the return of 5Q74 1507 Crewe to Holyhead .
Thanks for the update.
It is back out today on the usual 5Q70 Crewe South yard - Holyhead diagram