Where are the ticket inspectors?

[RPI]

They are not.

We do it and it is getting more that way now, a hell of a lot of intelligence gathering goes on in the background now with targeted stops on regular evaders.

 

[maniacmartin]

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread.

I've encountered a much higher than usual amount of revenue blocks lately on my commutes over the past few weeks.
- A few by Southeastern at London Bridge. They cover over the barcode readers on all of the gates and direct everyone on an eTicket to have their tickets manually scanned by a handheld reader. I guess this is to detect people travelling at the wrong time of day, which the gates might not be that good at detecting.

- At East Croydon in the evening peak, where there has been a large staff presence, backed up by BTP.

 

[styles]

On Manchester trams the inspectors board and shepherd people without tickets off onto the platform before allowing the tram to proceed to its next stop. Obviously, there is also the option to self-disembark but there is then a second line of inspectors lying in wait manning each exit gate so the miscreants are trapped on the platform and dealt with accordingly.

A lot of the tram stops in Nottingham don't really have 'exits' - they're just an extension of the pavement, with no barrier. If a ticket inspector tried to stop you, you could just walk away most of the time (as people do).

 

[Haywain]

I guess this is detect people travelling at the wrong time of day, which the gates might not be that good at detecting.

It also picks up the discounts, and the time of purchase.

 

[maniacmartin]

A lot of the tram stops in Nottingham don't really have 'exits' - they're just an extension of the pavement, with no barrier. If a ticket inspector tried to stop you, you could just walk away most of the time (as people do).

It's the same layout here on the Croydon trams, however every time that I've witnessed an RPI sting on the trams here, those without tickets haven't walked away when they've been led onto the platform to have their details taken.

We also have the compulsory ticket areas which would mean you wouldn't be able to walk down the street past the stop without stepping onto the road if you obeyed it literally. Given the contactless readers are in the platform too, you can't touch in without first walking through the compulsory ticket area either.

 

[frankmoh]

Surprised to see that Essex Road has no Oyster barriers given its proximity to Zone 1. Also as seen in the picture there was no staff.

 

[Haywain]

Essex Road has no Oyster barriers

You mean ticket gates? There's no such things as an "Oyster barrier".

 

[MikeWh]

Surprised to see that Essex Road has no Oyster barriers given its proximity to Zone 1. Also as seen in the picture there was no staff.

Elephant and Castle (NR) is in zone 1 (on the boundary) and only has validators, not ticket gates.

 

[Hadders]

I suspect you’d struggle to safely install ticket barriers at Essex Road due to the lack of space between the lifts and where the gateline would have to go.

 

[alvinc]

Does anyone have any experience with ticket inspectors on the other companies within London? SWR, c2c, Chiltern, Great Northern, so on. It seems clear that yet again in Britain's railways that London and everywhere else are different.

SWR when I was from Clapham Junction to Richmond non-stop. Other than that it usually was on tram (in different places including Wimbledon station platform outside the tram after I tapped on before boarding), Overground, DLR.

Never on bus, Underground, any trains except SWR above.

 

[Russel]

Did Tamworth - Euston and return today with LNWR and surprisingly, there was a full revenue protection team doing checks in both directions, I was even asked for my railcard which I haven't had to show to anyone for at least 12 months!

I did find the revenue check on the return journey amusing though, given todays WCML chaos will result in my getting a 100% refund anyway!

Also, I saw 2 revenue checks on the DLR!

 

[Starmill]

If a current account or credit card account has zero balance available and a TfL charge is applied to it, such as a completed journey where both touches are accepted and charged for at the normal fare, or a failed revenue inspection tap, there's a chance the money will be collected from the account regardless. In these cases, the card issuer has of course verified the identity of the holder, and extended a line of credit or a current account product both of which would have terms agreed about what happens if the limit is exceeded or the balance goes negative where not authorised. A bank may not be the first bit likely to go after a customer for fraud if they exceed their available credit by £10 or whatever, but they may still have persuasive ways to get the money back. The point is this isn't an easy way to fare evade and get off consequence free necessarily. Of course the customer could register a dispute with the bank but doing that would probably only cause even more attention to be paid to their accounts in future.

Now of course the more committed fare evaders are likely to be using a series of prepaid cards and the other scams around claiming to have had their debit card stolen in the street etc which are more difficult to track. But people messing about with these things for years will risk getting caught in the end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2025 ==

Penalty Fares on TfL are £100. Penalty Fares on National Rail are £100 plus the appropriate fare. Both are discounted if paid within 21-days.

Penalty Fares and maximum fares are different things.

Metrolink have taken that one a step further and set the failed revenue inspection charge to the same value as the PF with 50% discount for prompt payment. The PF is also £120 flat.

If you forget to touch out you are still charged the maximum fare according to the highest single.

 

[PeterC]

If you forget to touch out you are still charged the maximum fare according to the highest single.

Is this different between Oyster and contactless? With Oyster I get something in the region of £5 deducted on entry, I can't be bothered to check the exact amount, and that is what I was charged once when a journey timed out.

St Pancras Thameslink comes to mind. Due to the fire alert at the Underground station I went that way on Saturday. If I had failed to touch out at Romford I would have paid the "entry fee" on Oyster but what if I used contactless?

 

[Starmill]

Is this different between Oyster and contactless? With Oyster I get something in the region of £5 deducted on entry, I can't be bothered to check the exact amount, and that is what I was charged once when a journey timed out.

St Pancras Thameslink comes to mind. Due to the fire alert at the Underground station I went that way on Saturday. If I had failed to touch out at Romford I would have paid the "entry fee" on Oyster but what if I used contactless?

I don't think there are many Oyster equivalents that can be used on trains outside the Oyster area. The West Midlands has one for buses, but...

 

[jon0844]

I do not condone fare evasion at all but will the cost of the additional ticket inspectors, plus their employment costs (eg employers national insurance, pension, uniforms, training additional management to supervise etc) cover the additional fares recovered?

As there's often a link to anti-social behaviour and crime, you'd think it would make more sense to invest in more revenue protection, as well as Travelsafe officers, BTP etc.

But clearly the railway isn't going to fund anything that benefits beyond the railway. It needs a Government to see the bigger picture and invest accordingly. I've repeatedly pointed out the benefits of regular stings on the railway where criminals fall into the hands of the police time and time again. But, finding someone who is wanted is great for the police - but doesn't really 'benefit' the railway.

I bet passengers would prefer to have less people on the trains though, and a safer railway might encourage more usage - which then means it IS a benefit to the railway long-term.

 

[frankmoh]

Today I've seen more SE staff than usual at Hayes, West Wickham and Elmers End, mostly checking that people were tapping in.

 

[Hadders]

As there's often a link to anti-social behaviour and crime, you'd think it would make more sense to invest in more revenue protection, as well as Travelsafe officers, BTP etc.

But clearly the railway isn't going to fund anything that benefits beyond the railway. It needs a Government to see the bigger picture and invest accordingly. I've repeatedly pointed out the benefits of regular stings on the railway where criminals fall into the hands of the police time and time again. But, finding someone who is wanted is great for the police - but doesn't really 'benefit' the railway.

I bet passengers would prefer to have less people on the trains though, and a safer railway might encourage more usage - which then means it IS a benefit to the railway long-term.

I agree with all of this but the railway cannot sort out all of siciety's problems on its own.

Until there is a properly funded police and criminal justice system these issues will not go away.

 

[jon0844]

Until there is a properly funded police and criminal justice system these issues will not go away.

This. It's an issue bigger than the railway to solve, or the retail industry, or whatever.

 

[BanburyBlue]

I travelled from Banbury to Swanwick and return yesterday and didn't get my ticket checked once. The train manager on the XC part did walk through with his counting device once, but that was it. I used to use XC quite a lot a few years ago, normally to Leeds. Then, XC would almost always check tickets, normally 2 or 3 times on a single trip. My regular travel these days on XC is Banbury to Oxford, so train so rammed they'd struggle to get through. But just surprised that no checks at all.

 

[Russel]

I travelled from Banbury to Swanwick and return yesterday and didn't get my ticket checked once. The train manager on the XC part did walk through with his counting device once, but that was it. I used to use XC quite a lot a few years ago, normally to Leeds. Then, XC would almost always check tickets, normally 2 or 3 times on a single trip. My regular travel these days on XC is Banbury to Oxford, so train so rammed they'd struggle to get through. But just surprised that no checks at all.

Seems to be the standard now, unfortunately.

Given how much the DFT/Treasury would like DOO to spread, Guards aren't doing themselves any favours.