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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

800001

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It's just a different agreement regarding method of working.

I've worked in several different industries where companies have different ways of doing things. Even in situations that are classed as safety such as manufacturing, warehousing and theme parks!

Also, it's not a case of saying we'll only work from cabs, it's that our agreement is that the cab is the only designated safe space for conductors. If the service is high risk, we are currently able to choose to remain in the cab which clearly now isn't an option with 730/2s.

It's a change to the current method of working.
And this is what I can’t understand, as will the general public if they heard about all these different methods of work.
northern guards for example have no choice but to work from a door panel, they can not despatch from cab (certainly on 156/158/195 etc.
so if a northern service is deemed high risk, what do there guards do?
Totally get it is a change from what your current method is, but when other companies do it then other companies say it is isn’t safe, which is it?
It’s either safe for all, or not safe for all?
 
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SCDR_WMR

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And this is what I can’t understand, as will the general public if they heard about all these different methods of work.
northern guards for example have no choice but to work from a door panel, they can not despatch from cab (certainly on 156/158/195 etc.
so if a northern service is deemed high risk, what do there guards do?
Totally get it is a change from what your current method is, but when other companies do it then other companies say it is isn’t safe, which is it?
It’s either safe for all, or not safe for all?
Well no. Traction, routes, stations, clientele can all be very different for a start.

Safety is all about managing risk. Some would say there is no risk with DOO services as that's all they have used. Doesn't make it safe for all routes and tractions does it.

As I said, only Northern can answer the question on why they operate how they do.
 

185

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How do guards on many many Northern services manage on services where they are busy, full and standing, large amounts of drunken people on a weekend etc?
They throw their Sunday in and refuse to work, turn down rest day work. Volunteers drop to 21%. You end up with a phenomenal amount of cancellations which DfTO have recently tried hard to address by diagramming legacy units on evenings and weekends. On days they have to be in, on 331s/195s they often require a not to call order if the disorder or overcrowding is too bad. Or cancel the train. Nonsense that is unknown at other operators.

There is a Northern company management produced video, showing the (195/331) 'stuck' method of work where the guard has to put an orange vest on, climb out onto the track, walk up to the last door on the platform, bang on the glass, break an egress and hope enough people get off, then get to the door panel. 5 minute delay, in reality, unworkable on a train stopping every three minutes.

And this is what I never have and never will understand about the railway! It’s perfectly safe for one company to do something, but not for another company.

This particular line was described as one of the two worst in the UK for antisocial behaviour two decades ago (no 2 was last train Newcastle Durham, no 1 was Liverpool Crewe evening services) - not a lot has changed in 20 years.

The underlying cause of this new problem is a very small number of short platforms. At times of overcrowding or ASB staff need to remain safe in the cab. It should be noted that as new (or newer) stock arrived at Northern, an assessment of platforms was made and a substantial number of platforms were lengthened. This has not happened here, with several stations having dangerous numbers of passengers up against the platform edge as Avanti flit through at full speed.
 
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800001

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They throw their Sunday in and refuse to work, turn down rest day work. Volunteers drop to 21%. You end up with a phenomenal amount of cancellations which DfTO have recently tried hard to address by diagramming legacy units on evenings and weekends. On days they have to be in, on 331s/195s they often require a not to call order if the disorder or overcrowding is too bad. Or cancel the train. Nonsense that is unknown at other operators.

There is a Northern company management produced video, showing the (195/331) 'stuck' method of work where the guard has to put an orange vest on, climb out onto the track, walk up to the last door on the platform, bang on the glass, break an egress and hope enough people get off, then get to the door panel. 5 minute delay, in reality, unworkable on a train stopping every three minutes.



This particular line was described as one of the two worst in the UK for antisocial behaviour two decades ago (no 2 was last train Newcastle Durham, no 1 was Liverpool Crewe evening services) - not a lot has changed in 20 years.

The underlying cause of this new problem is a very small number of short platforms. At times of overcrowding or ASB staff need to remain safe in the cab. It should be noted that as new (or newer) stock arrived at Northern, an assessment of platforms was made and a substantial number of platforms were lengthened. This has not happened here, with several stations having dangerous numbers of passengers up against the platform edge as Avanti flit through at full speed.
You could use any Toc, I was using Northern as an example.
I won’t comment further if this becomes a Bash the Northern guards. I was genuinely intrigued how other TOCs can despatch from the vestibule areas and others can’t.
 

Andrew1395

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Bushey
Went on first journey on these (730 210 the rear of a train with 730 234 heading the train on the up slow). Perfectly fine, despite the obvious upholstery supplied by the manufacturers of very cheap travel cots. Plus the seats not aligned to windows. The designed first class area, looks more promising for longer journeys. But as a shifter of commuters on the southern end of the WCML - no complaints. Not sure that they are a step change, in the way the 350s were when replacing the 321s.
 

rogercov

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Does anyone know which 730/2 units are in service today?
2K18 left Bletchley late and ran non-stop (possibly empty) to Euston to form 2K29.
RTT is currently reporting 2K29 and later journeys as 730220 + 730205.
I thought 730220 + 730205 were left at Camden C.S.D. after the morning trips on 26/06.
If I'm wrong, what are the units currently at Camden?
Thanks.
 

alm37

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York
Thank you for that.

Two pairs appear to be out today:
730205 + 730220
730210 + 730234

On the Railcam I can see a pair stabled at Camden C.S.D. Does anyone know which ones they are? Thanks.
Highly likely to be 211+217 which have been there for the last 10 days or so.
 

SCDR_WMR

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I've noticed that the 730/2s have been running in the same pairings of units, rather than in pairings of random units - is that just because they've only needed to run as 10-car trains so far, so no reason for units to detach, or...?
Limiting the number of attach/detach most likely. Drivers up here have said the linkage isn't the best/looks like it won't take that many attach/detach before problems start to arise.
 

800001

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Limiting the number of attach/detach most likely. Drivers up here have said the linkage isn't the best/looks like it won't take that many attach/detach before problems start to arise.
Surely it’s the same as the 730/0s?
Same couplings as 720s etc?
Both of which have plenty of splitting and joining.
 

Liam L

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Surely it’s the same as the 730/0s?
Same couplings as 720s etc?
Both of which have plenty of splitting and joining.
I haven't been on a 730 for a few weeks so I don't know the pairings as I late, but I do know that some pairs are left for together for as long as a week and half at most.
 

Silverlinky

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Limiting the number of attach/detach most likely. Drivers up here have said the linkage isn't the best/looks like it won't take that many attach/detach before problems start to arise.
Like the 730/0's, on the WCML they do not run into Euston late at night (where there are a number of attaches to make longer trains) nor do they run between London and Birmingham (where a number of attach/detach take place at Northampton) so the "opportunity" for them to swap partners is very limited! Other than faults or for exams they (both 0's and 2's) stay in fixed formations whilst in service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Same pairings out again on the southern end of the WCML, 234 with 210 and 205 with 220.

Upcoming training/test runs in the system:

4th July
5Q70 2152 Crewe to New Street
5Q71 2326 New Street to Crewe

7th, 9th and 10th July
5Q10 0945 Crewe to Lime Street
5Q10 1038 Lime Street to Crewe

8th July
5Q30 1225 Rugby to Birmingham International
5Q31 1329 International to Rugby

9th July
5Q31 1712 Bletchley to New Street
5Q32 1915 New Street to Northampton
5Q33 2027 Northampton to International
5Q34 2118 International to Bletchley
 
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778

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Hemel Hempstead
Upcoming training/test runs in the system:

4th July
5Q70 2152 Crewe to New Street
5Q71 2326 New Street to Crewe

7th, 9th and 10th July
5Q10 0945 Crewe to Lime Street
5Q10 1038 Lime Street to Crewe

8th July
5Q30 1225 Rugby to Birmingham International
5Q31 1329 International to Rugby

9th July
5Q31 1712 Bletchley to New Street
5Q32 1915 New Street to Northampton
5Q33 2027 Northampton to International
5Q34 2118 International to Bletchley
Do you have any more information about when they will be starting Euston - Crewe services?
 

31160

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When they start on the Crewes what platform will they use at Crewe I don't think the current bay will be long enough for load 10
 

AJDesiro

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When they start on the Crewes what platform will they use at Crewe I don't think the current bay will be long enough for load 10
The same arrangement used when a 12 car 350 calls, platform 12. There is an aspiration to clear platform 1 for permissive working to allow them to use that with the Northern services. The benefit being that it doesn’t have to cross the entire WCML on departure, which doesn’t do performance any good.
 

Silverlinky

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When they start on the Crewes what platform will they use at Crewe I don't think the current bay will be long enough for load 10
Only platforms 1, 5, 6, 11 and 12 could accommodate the 240m length of a 10 car.

12 is the platform of choice, out of the way and with very few other movements, unlike the rest numbered above.
 

SCDR_WMR

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Only platforms 1, 5, 6, 11 and 12 could accommodate the 240m length of a 10 car.

12 is the platform of choice, out of the way and with very few other movements, unlike the rest numbered above.
And right next to the train crew depot lol
 

Liam L

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Would make sense as that’s why they do final work on them isn’t it before they head to depots?
730041 came from Soho and has been in service, I've had it 6 times on cross city according to my rail miles :lol:

Id imagine the mods are possibly from things founds whilst the units have been in service.
 

800001

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730041 came from Soho and has been in service, I've had it 6 times on cross city according to my rail miles :lol:

Id imagine the mods are possibly from things founds whilst the units have been in service.
Fully aware it’s been in service, comment was aimed at what Gascoigne Wood does, hence why it has gone back there, for rectification work!
 

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