The latest public talk from WMT was that they would only run Liverpool services temporarily, with those services going to 8 car 350s in the long term to maximise capacity,
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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates
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mansonlo49
Member
@AJDesiro i see thx, thought they’ll be doing 730/2 for long term at first, as they been going into Liverpool quite often
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The route has not been signed off for public use by the unions on safety issues.
There will continue to be staff training runs between Crewe and Runcorn.
mansonlo49
Member
Safety issues???
The platform at Winsford is too short to accommodate the back cab, meaning the reps are reluctant to allow them to call in case they are unable to get through the train to get to a door panel. I don't really understand it, though, since if a passcom is pulled, the train crew need to walk down the train to reset it anyway, so this shouldn't be any different, although I'd assume the issue the RMT has is that doors will need to be opened at Winsford far more frequently than passcoms need resetting, and it's not exactly a nice environment for the guard to work in.
In an ideal world the platform at Winsford would have been extended in anticipation of the 730/2s, but WMT wanted DOO when they ordered the 730s and I'd assume it never crossed their minds. Although several platforms were extended for the 196s to be introduced.
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childwallblues
Established Member
The platforms at Smethwick Galton Bridge, Coseley, Penkridge, Winsford, Acton Bridge, Liverpool South Parkway and Mossley Hill cannot take 8 car trains.
That doesn't stop them from calling at those stations as 8 cars at the moment.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
The 350s have Unit Deselect, and a cab in the middle for a guard to sit in away from people.
mansonlo49
Member
Is this means they like the 350 more than 730?
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
No… it’s about the practicality of working a certain train at a certain station on a certain route, nothing to do with liking or disliking anything.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Remember, some train crew on LNR are back/middle cab dwellers, even going as far as locking out gangway doors on pairs of 350s so they don't get disturbed by those pesky customers.
No different to Northern only having door controls for their CAF units within the passenger area.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Which is appalling and should result in a disciplinary.
mansonlo49
Member
i see ok thanks
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Half of Bletchley depot would be sacked if they enforced this. I agree they should make inroads to dealing with it though. On those grounds it is a shame 730s can be worked from cabs at all
Indeed, if an 8 car 350 is packed like sardines the conductor can safely open the doors from the middle can regardless of which station they are at.
The issue with the 730/2 being that on most Saturdays and Sundays there are many trains where it is nigh on impossible to get from the rear cab into the saloon for whatever reason. This is an issue for this traction as the rear cab is not accommodated (see also Acton Bridge on the down) and there will be times when the conductor cannot possibly get to the relevant door panel to release the doors.
Personally I have suggested that at Crewe/Runcorn a decision needs to be made and if there is no way to get through the train then a not to stop order should be granted. Better than simply saying we won't run trains. However, there is union/company politics at play.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Again, it's the Liverpool services which seems a large amount of ASBO and assists on Friday/Saturday nights that are the reason a safe and secure location is required, and has both company and union agreement on.Half of Bletchley depot would be sacked if they enforced this. I agree they should make inroads to dealing with it though. On those grounds it is a shame 730s can be worked from cabs at all
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Apologies for the double post - there is now a proposal from the company to the unions that seems that it might resolve the issue with the Liverpool services.
July 14th is still pencilled in at this point for 1st trains on that route
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
It's a triple post, but it's fine now as they automatically merge.
So that I'm saying something somewhat related, when people have said that the 730/2 vehicles are so long compared to the 350 vehicles, they're not exaggerating. I've now travelled on a 350/1 after travelling on a 730/2, and the 20m vehicles seemed really short, even knowing that they're 4m shorter.
Indeed, my bad. Hopefully won't get kicked out for a triple post!
Indeed, it really does add up. You gain a while vehicle per 5 car, hence it being the same as 6 on a 350. That and the wide walkways really makes a difference internally.
14th July to December will be an initial trial on the Liverpool services, with monthly meeting to see what permanent mitigations are required.
ThrowAway10101
Member
Saw the 1W51 (730220/205) on Wednesday with a lot of passengers disembarking at Northampton. Was it an actual service?
45076
Member
yes, there are 6 units in service
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 876
First Saturday workings for these units tomorrow (subject to alteration due to Denbigh Hall derailment)
5B06 0644 Bletchley CS-Bletchley
2B06 0659 Bletchley to Euston
2T13 0824 Euston to Tring
2T14 0915 Tring to Euston
2K19 1009 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K20 1130 Milton Keynes to Euston
2T31 1254 Euston to Tring
2T32 1345 Tring to Euston
2K37 1439 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K38 1600 Milton Keynes to Euston
2T49 1724 Euston to Tring
2T50 1815 Tring to Euston
2B55 1909 Euston to Bletchley
5B55 2012 Bletchley to Bletchley CS
This plan is in place for next Saturday (5th July) too.
First Sunday workings on 29th, again subject to change
5K18 1301 Bletchley CS to Milton Keynes
2K18 1322 Milton Keynes to Euston
2K29 1452 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K30 1622 Milton Keynes to Euston
2K41 1752 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K42 1922 Milton Keynes to Euston
2K53 2039 Euston to Milton Keynes
5B53 2146 Milton Keynes to Bletchley CS
5B06 0644 Bletchley CS-Bletchley
2B06 0659 Bletchley to Euston
2T13 0824 Euston to Tring
2T14 0915 Tring to Euston
2K19 1009 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K20 1130 Milton Keynes to Euston
2T31 1254 Euston to Tring
2T32 1345 Tring to Euston
2K37 1439 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K38 1600 Milton Keynes to Euston
2T49 1724 Euston to Tring
2T50 1815 Tring to Euston
2B55 1909 Euston to Bletchley
5B55 2012 Bletchley to Bletchley CS
This plan is in place for next Saturday (5th July) too.
First Sunday workings on 29th, again subject to change
5K18 1301 Bletchley CS to Milton Keynes
2K18 1322 Milton Keynes to Euston
2K29 1452 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K30 1622 Milton Keynes to Euston
2K41 1752 Euston to Milton Keynes
2K42 1922 Milton Keynes to Euston
2K53 2039 Euston to Milton Keynes
5B53 2146 Milton Keynes to Bletchley CS
childwallblues
Established Member
There are two trains each hour from Birmingham to Liverpool. Only one each hour calls at Winsford, They could use 350s on the stoppers and 730s on non stop services.
They could, but the semi- fast still stops at Mossley Hill and Penkridge where it still wouldn't fit. Unsure of the length at Coseley also.
Mossley Hill just needs it's platforms repaired as they would easily be enough room but for the picket fence. Could just not stop there.
Penkridge would need the platform extension on the Up being brought into use but the Down is no where near long enough. Would not be good to reduce service levels by not stopping.
mansonlo49
Member
seems today no 730/2 out
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 876
I did say ‘subject to alteration’…a normal timetable would have seen it out, but a with an emergency timetable in place they obviously haven’t come out to play.
All 2K** services are cancelled/removed today.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Despite which they can't manage to crew either Marston Vale diagram all afternoon! Odd.
Might be a blessing in disguise if they are that short staffed today.
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How do guards on many many Northern services manage on services where they are busy, full and standing, large amounts of drunken people on a weekend etc? They have no choice but to go into the vestibule to a door panel? What makes LNWR a special case where they won’t do so and insist on the middle or rear cab?
You'd have to ask Northern guards and their unions who agreed to those working conditions.
It's been this way at LNR since 350s launched
And this is what I never have and never will understand about the railway!
It’s perfectly safe for one company to do something, but not for another company.
It's just a different agreement regarding method of working.
I've worked in several different industries where companies have different ways of doing things. Even in situations that are classed as safety such as manufacturing, warehousing and theme parks!
Also, it's not a case of saying we'll only work from cabs, it's that our agreement is that the cab is the only designated safe space for conductors. If the service is high risk, we are currently able to choose to remain in the cab which clearly now isn't an option with 730/2s.
It's a change to the current method of working.
mansonlo49
Member
Yes I’d seen it, just wondered when’ll the /2s be seen on weekend