Could Avanti West Coast's 805/807s reach Glasgow/Edinburgh?

[lrbvoyager]

Does anyone know when these will reach Edinburgh and Glasgow?

 

[p.d87]

Does anyone know when these will reach Edinburgh and Glasgow?

No plans currently for them to run in service. No Scottish crew have been trained on them.

 

[800001]

Does anyone know when these will reach Edinburgh and Glasgow?

There is no plans. Liverpool and Preston/Blackpool are as far north as they are booked to go.

 

[lrbvoyager]

No plans currently for them to run in service. No Scottish crew have been trained on them.

I spoke to a driver and he said that he reckons they will be trained on them soon.

 

[Sorcerer]

I spoke to a driver and he said that he reckons they will be trained on them soon.

Considering that there are no plans to run them on the routes that Scottish crews sign I don't see how this is likely. Preston crews are trained for them, but only for running to Blackpool and back.

 

[p.d87]

I spoke to a driver and he said that he reckons they will be trained on them soon.

Most likely messroom gossip/ rumours. There's not enough of them to send into Scotland. Plus they'd never keep to time at max 110mph.

 

[800001]

Most likely messroom gossip/ rumours. There's not enough of them to send into Scotland. Plus they'd never keep to time at max 110mph.

Wonder if 805s as a diversion when these several weeks of full week closures on the northern part of wcml?

 

[p.d87]

Wonder if 805s as a diversion when these several weeks of full week closures on the northern part of wcml?

If so they would need to reduce the north wales route either by short forming or cancelling trains as there just aren't enough to go round. I'm sure the requirements either from May or starting September are 11/13 required in service which leaves little room to move elsewhere.

 

[800001]

If so they would need to reduce the north wales route either by short forming or cancelling trains as there just aren't enough to go round. I'm sure the requirements either from May or starting September are 11/13 required in service which leaves little room to move elsewhere.

Invoke emergency timetable like they have done when other blockades, eg the other week in Crewe area. Where north wales becomes a shuttle between Crewe and Holyhead etc
Seen lots of discussion on ‘X’ which I now can’t find about TOCs looking at alternative plans to try keep people on trains and not busses with the wcml closures.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Most likely messroom gossip/ rumours. There's not enough of them to send into Scotland. Plus they'd never keep to time at max 110mph.

There are still plans to operate them via Settle during an engineering block, but the plans are still being drawn up and confirmed. Drivers won't be learning the route, freight drivers will be used, but I'm not sure what they'll do about the driving itself.

 

[DaveyJones]

There are still plans to operate them via Settle during an engineering block, but the plans are still being drawn up and confirmed. Drivers won't be learning the route, freight drivers will be used, but I'm not sure what they'll do about the driving itself.

Preston Drivers I presume? They take the trains to Blackpool already

 

[DannyMich2018]

If so they would need to reduce the north wales route either by short forming or cancelling trains as there just aren't enough to go round. I'm sure the requirements either from May or starting September are 11/13 required in service which leaves little room to move elsewhere.

Makes you wonder why only 13 805s were ordered despite replacing 20 221s?

 

[AJDesiro]

Makes you wonder why only 13 805s were ordered despite replacing 20 221s?

Because 10 807s were also ordered as a part of that replacement. No point in ordering more bi-modes than required for normal service since it will just result in more maintenance needed.

 

[Trainbike46]

Makes you wonder why only 13 805s were ordered despite replacing 20 221s?

Because the total order was larger, with 13 805s and 10 807s. Overall, it is an increase in fleet size, especially on a seat number basis.

There was no need for 20 221s anyway, as multiple diagrams were under the wire all day anyway

 

[Pendomonium]

Most likely messroom gossip/ rumours. There's not enough of them to send into Scotland. Plus they'd never keep to time at max 110mph.

There was a little more to this. I am not familiar with North of the border route knowledge, but I gather that a key diversionary route is unwired & was used by the 221 fleet & using 805s was mooted. Truth is probably someone in an office looked at a paper idea without knowing the implications.

 

[JonathanH]

I am not familiar with North of the border route knowledge, but I gather that a key diversionary route is unwired & was used by the 221 fleet & using 805s was mooted.

There was a suggestion on the forum at one point that it would make more sense to use bi-modes operated by TPE on diversions via Dumfries than Avanti bi-modes, not least because a TPE 802 already works a Manchester to Edinburgh diagram.

 

[The Planner]

There are still plans to operate them via Settle during an engineering block, but the plans are still being drawn up and confirmed. Drivers won't be learning the route, freight drivers will be used, but I'm not sure what they'll do about the driving itself.

They go no futher than Carlisle in that plan.

 

[Zomboid]

I would be surprised if they weren't cleared to operate all the way (I assume TPEs 802s are permitted so it wouldn't be a stretch to clear some other 26m 80x units).

Doubt it'll happen in any kind of regular scenario, though.

 

[stevieinselby]

Makes you wonder why only 13 805s were ordered despite replacing 20 221s?

Because quite a few services that were being run by 221s were on routes that had been fully electrified since the 221s were built, and so could now be run by 807s or 390s.

 

[Falcon1200]

They go no futher than Carlisle in that plan.

If the route north of Carlisle is open as normal it makes sense to concentrate bi-modes on the diversion between Preston and Carlisle, therefore providing a more frequent service, at the expense of passengers having to change at Carlisle - Although this could be done cross-platform by using 1 and 3. When the WCML was closed at Lamington Viaduct in 2016 this was done, with Voyagers north of Carlisle and Pendolinos south (but don't get me started on how the resulting delays at Carlisle were attributed....)

 

[Pendomonium]

Invoke emergency timetable like they have done when other blockades, eg the other week in Crewe area. Where north wales becomes a shuttle between Crewe and Holyhead etc
Seen lots of discussion on ‘X’ which I now can’t find about TOCs looking at alternative plans to try keep people on trains and not busses with the wcml closures.

Emergency timetables for Avanti are hardly practical now as train crew diagrams have drivers & TMs all over the place. When disruption happens they tend to end up chasing trains around the country & it takes all day for the service to recover as drivers with required hours, route & traction knowledge bomb burst across the network. Its productivity, apparently.

 

[800001]

Emergency timetables for Avanti are hardly practical now as train crew diagrams have drivers & TMs all over the place. When disruption happens they tend to end up chasing trains around the country & it takes all day for the service to recover as drivers with required hours, route & traction knowledge bomb burst across the network. It’s productivity, apparently.

Emergency times table for a specific period - EG engineering timetable, as I stated in my post!
Am not on about when disruption occurs on a single day.
When line was blocked for engineering work south of Crewe, the north Wales line becomes a shuttle from Crewe.
That is the sort of thing I am implying.
Planned alterations, with all diagrams of crew and rolling stock pre-planned to correct timescales.

 

[The Planner]

Emergency times table for a specific period - EG engineering timetable, as I stated in my post!
Am not on about when disruption occurs on a single day.
When line was blocked for engineering work south of Crewe, the north Wales line becomes a shuttle from Crewe.
That is the sort of thing I am implying.
Planned alterations, with all diagrams of crew and rolling stock pre-planned to correct timescales.

Its not really an emergency timetable if its planned, just a short term alteration.

 

[snookertam]

Emergency timetables for Avanti are hardly practical now as train crew diagrams have drivers & TMs all over the place. When disruption happens they tend to end up chasing trains around the country & it takes all day for the service to recover as drivers with required hours, route & traction knowledge bomb burst across the network. Its productivity, apparently.

It’s okay, the relevant teams responsible can always just blame the control for not putting things back together.