Cross Country Voyager overcrowding: What can be done about it?

[DarloRich]

Moderator note: Split from

Cross Country Voyagers - rear set locked out of use?

I’ve been on a number of Cross Country services which have been formed of a double Voyager, however, more recently, there has been an increasingly common occurrence of where the rear set has been locked out of use, due to lack of train crew. For Southbound services, it’s usually after...

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New trains have got to be ordered ASAP, and/or XC needs to be cut back to run double sets on all voyager services. The focus should be, in my opinion, the Northeast > Southwest axis.

 

[amahy]

new trains have got to be ordered asap and/or XC needs to be cut back to run double sets on all voyager services . The focus should be, imo, the north eat > south west axis.

Don't care about Manchester to Birmingham, then?

 

[weeklycommuter]

new trains have got to be ordered asap and/or XC needs to be cut back to run double sets on all voyager services . The focus should be, imo, the north eat > south west axis.

I agree that the hourly Edinburgh-Newcastle-York-Leeds-Sheffield-Derby-Birmingham-Bristol-Plymouth service both ways should have top priority for double sets followed by Manchester-Bournemouth then Manchester-Bristol.

The Reading-York/Newcastle services need to take lower priority and I see no point in fully restoring a Reading-York/Newcastle hourly service until the other three North South services all have enough seats with no rear sets locked out of use. I think it would be better to leave it as a Reading-York only service to save rolling stock.

Again I wish Cross Country Trains would stop running beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow and Aberdeen and use the rolling stock for more double sets on the core routes. There are plenty of trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow and the Government of Scotland's train operator Scotrail should run the train services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen currently provided by Cross Country Trains.

 

[WAB]

Again I wish Cross Country Trains would stop running beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow and Aberdeen and use the rolling stock for more double sets on the core routes. There are plenty of trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow and the Government of Scotland's train operator Scotrail should run the train services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen currently provided by Cross Country Trains.

Which services could be strengthened by cutting the extensions?

 

[E B]

You could add additional units to a few Edinburgh - Plymouth services.

 

[Krokodil]

Again I wish Cross Country Trains would stop running beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow and Aberdeen and use the rolling stock for more double sets on the core routes.

Do these extensions actually come at the expense of the core, or are they start/end of the day services whose units would only be sat on the depot waiting for their first working otherwise?

 

[357]

You could add additional units to a few Edinburgh - Plymouth services.

What ones?

 

[E B]

The next Southbound service that goes after the Aberdeen/Dundee train arrives (I am not sure as to which ones)

 

[357]

The next Southbound service that goes after the Aberdeen/Dundee train arrives (I am not sure as to which ones)

So you want to:

1. Reduce the length of the 08:07 to strengthen the 07:04
2. Start the 09:07 from Edinburgh instead of Glasgow for no apparent reason
3. Start the 11:08 from Edinburgh for no apparent reason
4. Terminate the 18:07 arrival to strengthen the 20:07 to Newcastle
5. Terminate the 20:05 for no apparent reason
6. Terminate the 21:04 for no apparent reason

 

[E B]

For the same reason as cutting the 0820 from Aberdeen from Penzance to Plymouth

 

[Krokodil]

For the same reason as cutting the 0820 from Aberdeen from Penzance to Plymouth

Which was?

 

[E B]

The cutting of the 0820 was due to Regular delays, wanting to create a more efficient timetable and services. But forget I said anything (even though I did not make the original point)

 

[Krokodil]

So it doesn‘t allow core services to be strengthened?

QED

 

[357]

So it doesn‘t allow core services to be strengthened?

QED

Are you saying the 20:07 from Edinburgh to Newcastle isn't a core service?

 

[irish_rail]

So you want to:

1. Reduce the length of the 08:07 to strengthen the 07:04
2. Start the 09:07 from Edinburgh instead of Glasgow for no apparent reason
3. Start the 11:08 from Edinburgh for no apparent reason
4. Terminate the 18:07 arrival to strengthen the 20:07 to Newcastle
5. Terminate the 20:05 for no apparent reason
6. Terminate the 21:04 for no apparent reason

However by cutting the extremes you are saving staff members to work useful services. Suddenly the "stretch" on staff numbers could be eased a little, at Plymouth and Edinburgh at least.

 

[Falcon1200]

Again I wish Cross Country Trains would stop running beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow and Aberdeen and use the rolling stock for more double sets on the core routes. There are plenty of trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow

The Glasgow XC services are 0648 and 0748 departures, and 2122 and 2213 arrivals. Axing these would achieve nothing.

(Turning all the Plymouth trains at Taunton or Exeter on the other hand, given that GWR run plenty of services beyond those places.....)

 

[GoneSouth]

The Glasgow XC services are 0648 and 0748 departures, and 2122 and 2213 arrivals. Axing these would achieve nothing.

(Turning all the Plymouth trains at Taunton or Exeter on the other hand, given that GWR run plenty of services beyond those places.....)

Have you been on a Paddington to Penzance recently? Bunging over a hundred extra passengers on one of those from Exeter isn’t an acceptable solution
M

 

[sir_gummerz]

Have you been on a Paddington to Penzance recently? Bunging over a hundred extra passengers on one of those from Exeter isn’t an acceptable solution
M

Something to consider is that the times of travel would change. Folk heading into Cornwall would use any of the hourly serviced to Plymouth and change, rather than the current situation when a XC penzance is terminated short, and hundreds of people change to the GWR service

 

[Killingworth]

The Glasgow XC services are 0648 and 0748 departures, and 2122 and 2213 arrivals. Axing these would achieve nothing.

(Turning all the Plymouth trains at Taunton or Exeter on the other hand, given that GWR run plenty of services beyond those places.....)

It might be helpful if all contributors to XC discussions were geographically identifiable. My own bias is Sheffield centric stretching north east and south west with occasional use of XC other services.

The difficulty with that is that my journeys are relatively infrequent and do not provide a 24/7 sample of the entire network.

What I do have is a very clear impression of an operator under severe stress with standees at some point on all trains I've used. From comments on various XC threads that can occur almost anywhere on any day for multiple overlapping reasons. (Yesterday a fatality in Northumberland had knock-on effects across the nation.)

We would love to spend time in Devon and Cornwall and the train would be ideal - if it had space, ran to time, offered catering and was reasonably priced. We've done it 3 times on LSL specials giving 2 nights in Cornwall. They get looped too often but a faster regular weekly service would suit us well, once a year.

Which illustrates how thousands of regular commuters over short distances don't fit well with thousands of long distance annual holidaymakers and lots more for other leisure markets anywhere and everywhere across the nation. On one thing we're all agreed, missing and locked out carriages infuriate us all.

 

[GoneSouth]

Something to consider is that the times of travel would change. Folk heading into Cornwall would use any of the hourly serviced to Plymouth and change, rather than the current situation when a XC penzance is terminated short, and hundreds of people change to the GWR service

Now I think about it the problem has been around for years. I haven’t checked since the new timetable in May, I think there maybe a few changes to Cornwall services from XC. Throughout the franchise they ran into Cornwall in the evening which made absolutely no difference to the core daytime service. Everybody who didn’t way to arrive at their holiday destination at 10pm changed onto GWR anyway! Having said that, moving the issue from Plymouth back up the line to Exeter or Taunton Really wouldn’t work well given how many people do travel to Plymouth by XC.

 

[sir_gummerz]

Now I think about it the problem has been around for years. I haven’t checked since the new timetable in May, I think there maybe a few changes to Cornwall services from XC. Throughout the franchise they ran into Cornwall in the evening which made absolutely no difference to the core daytime service. Everybody who didn’t way to arrive at their holiday destination at 10pm changed onto GWR anyway! Having said that, moving the issue from Plymouth back up the line to Exeter or Taunton Really wouldn’t work well given how many people do travel to Plymouth by XC.

I do apologise i had a complete blank and completely missed the exeter part lol, yeah that's a terrible idea. Not to mention that XC has no staff or at exeter, and depo wise nowhere willing or able to take voyagers. Very silly to have trains run ECS from laira to exeter every day.

 

[GoneSouth]

I do apologise i had a complete blank and completely missed the exeter part lol, yeah that's a terrible idea. Not to mention that XC has no staff or at exeter, and depo wise nowhere willing or able to take voyagers. Very silly to have trains run ECS from laira to exeter every day.

Ah yes indeed, for XC to run a service with Voyagers not running around empty and locked out of service, they would have to run them to Exeter empty and locked out of service! As you say, it doesn’t really work does it

 

[irish_rail]

The Glasgow XC services are 0648 and 0748 departures, and 2122 and 2213 arrivals. Axing these would achieve nothing.

(Turning all the Plymouth trains at Taunton or Exeter on the other hand, given that GWR run plenty of services beyond those places.....)

Or even better than that, how about turning round the SW to NE stuff at Newcastle as there are plenty of LNER trains north of Newcastle......

 

[Falcon1200]

Have you been on a Paddington to Penzance recently? Bunging over a hundred extra passengers on one of those from Exeter isn’t an acceptable solution
M

But don't hundreds of people alight from and join Paddington trains at Exeter, leaving seats for the XC folk? That has been my experience! But it wasn't a serious suggestion.

 

[GoneSouth]

But don't hundreds of people alight from and join Paddington trains at Exeter, leaving seats for the XC folk? That has been my experience! But it wasn't a serious suggestion.

Hundreds of people may alight, but that’s not the same as leaving free seats

At least that’s my experience over the summer months. I can also confirm that beyond Plymouth does have a desolate feel about it in the middle of winter at 9pm on a Sunday when waiting for a bus replacement! Thoroughly unpleasant.

 

[Express380]

At least that’s my experience over the summer months. I can also confirm that beyond Plymouth does have a desolate feel about it in the middle of winter at 9pm on a Sunday when waiting for a bus replacement! Thoroughly unpleasant.

When the last Plymouth used to be cancelled on a Saturday off Penzance... taxis galore. Waiting to see how long it is before the new Sunday service gets the same treatment!

 

[class 9]

Or even better than that, how about turning round the SW to NE stuff at Newcastle as there are plenty of LNER trains north of Newcastle......

A political non starter, the Scottish government wouldn't accept it, although not a huge number,there's plenty of passengers from Edinburgh to various stops further south that travel.

 

[3RDGEN]

One reason given for short trains was to couple up as required so why not;

5 Car Edinburgh to Newcastle, couple to a 4 Car and reverse out via the High Level to keep the 5 Car on the front to Bristol TM then detach the 4 Car and continue to Plymouth as a 5 Car. Gives the best capacity for the core part of the route and keeps through journeys for the entire route, operational nightmare and blocks platforms at Newcastle / Bristol but if you did that could all services be doubles Newcastle to Bristol TM perhaps?

The Reading - Newcastle route should be cut to York with plenty of options to Newcastle anyway.

Once XC is re-nationalised we can go back to the tried and tested method of increasing the fares to price people off the services.

 

[tsyxa]

Once XC is re-nationalised we can go back to the tried and tested method of increasing the fares to price people off the services.

And push them to use the already congested roads instead? Or worsen the cost of living? XC prices are already extortionate, especially for the conditions and passenger experience

 

[Iskra]

An order of plentiful bi-mode 8XX is urgently needed of carriage lengths 5, 7 and 9 in my opinion. I believe this will be announced fairly soon as the current situation is untenable.

However, in the meantime people need to be priced off 4 car sets and onto 5/8/9/10 car sets as applicable with price incentives working both ways. For example not just more expensive on a 4-car set, but cheaper on a longer set. Revenue neutral so as not to rip-off the passenger, but simply to match loadings to capacity.

If some sensible relief rolling stock can be soured in the medium term, then that should be done. Once the express routes are sorted, voyagers should be cascaded onto some Cardiff-Nottingham workings to allow 170 diagrams to be strengthened.