Transport for Wales Class 230

[Zontar]

230008 failed today

 

[Richard Scott]

230008 failed today

They must have been running well for quite a while as no gleeful reports of a failure for a few days?

 

[Peter Sarf]

They must have been running well for quite a while as no gleeful reports of a failure for a few days?

A whole week without any failures it seems. Now yesterdays failure might turn out to be not a 230s fault as we have had before.

I am impressed that with three of the 230s out the performance is still better than the one on its own in the past. So shows improvement on an innovative design. We have to remember that the alternatives were struggling also. We also know all new trains seem to have an alarmingly high failure rate at the beginning. Doing better than the Aventras from the big boys with all their expertise. Lets hope these 230s will continue to climb up the reliability curve.

 

[Wyrleybart]

A whole week without any failures it seems. Now yesterdays failure might turn out to be not a 230s fault as we have had before.

I am impressed that with three of the 230s out the performance is still better than the one on its own in the past. So shows improvement on an innovative design. We have to remember that the alternatives were struggling also. We also know all new trains seem to have an alarmingly high failure rate at the beginning. Doing better than the Aventras from the big boys with all their expertise. Lets hope these 230s will continue to climb up the reliability curve.

Indeed Peter it would be really good if the leader of Vivarail could eventually be posthumously vindicated for his very bold plan. However there comes a point on the spreadsheet where the costs of maintaining specialist stuff outweigh the replacement by standard stock. No idea where that point is but i imagine an order for an extra three two-car 197s would make the beancounters happy.

 

[Philip Roberts]

Indeed Peter it would be really good if the leader of Vivarail could eventually be posthumously vindicated for his very bold plan. However there comes a point on the spreadsheet where the costs of maintaining specialist stuff outweigh the replacement by standard stock. No idea where that point is but i imagine an order for an extra three two-car 197s would make the beancounters happy.

The 197s aren't particularly well suited to the line

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 197s aren't particularly well suited to the line

Apparently so. Class 197s would otherwise be ideal as they are all over the surrounding lines.

Now how about some two (or three) car 231s ?.
I can guess they would have enough power to stick to the tight schedule with up to four thrash cupboards (engines) possible.
But they would be a micro fleet effectively as they are at the other end of Wales from Barry/Cardiff-Canton.

So 230s with their apparently easy to maintain design might be a better microfleet.

I can see battery 777s going down the line form Bidston one day !.

 

[Pacef8]

Their was a announcement this week of a new station at Woodchurch so their is no way they could keep to a even tighter schedule.

 

[WirralLine]

Their was a announcement this week of a new station at Woodchurch so their is no way they could keep to a even tighter schedule.

Im sure this has been announced every few years for the last 40 odd years!

 

[Vanmanyo]

The 197s aren't particularly well suited to the line

Especially when they are dearly needed to strengthen other services across the North Coast. Been seeing some more 4-5 car Holyhead/Llandudno services now the 230s are operating all day so that's nice I guess.

 

[Zontar]

Another failed today, cancelled services as usual.

 

[Anonymous10]

Another failed today, cancelled services as usual.

Given your regular criticism of the stock what do you propose tfw do?

 

[Zontar]

Given your regular criticism of the stock what do you propose tfw do?

Well I wouldn't have bought them when vivarail were about to go bust.

Call me unadventurous, but I wouldnt have taken a chance on buying 5 Frankenstein trains outright that were delivered 3 years late in the first place, no history of reliability and no proven track record.

Tfw should have bailed out and let vivarail go bust. At least they could blame the whole sorry state on them.

 

[Anonymous10]

Well I wouldn't have bought them when vivarail were about to go bust.

Call me unadventurous, but I wouldnt have taken a chance on buying 5 Frankenstein trains outright that were delivered 3 years late in the first place, no history of reliability and no proven track record.

Tfw should have bailed out and let vivarail go bust. At least they could blame the whole sorry state on them.

Ok, but what do you propose they do NOW not what they should have done years ago.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Ok, but what do you propose they do NOW not what they should have done years ago.

Go back in time duh!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==

Another failed today, cancelled services as usual.

Also only 2 services today were cancelled which, compared to a lot of problems on the rail network, is not much of a concern. TFW did well to limit the cancellations in all honestly.

 

[Anonymous10]

Go back in time duh!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==


Also only 2 services today were cancelled which, compared to a lot of problems on the rail network, is not much of a concern. TFW did well to limit the cancellations in all honestly.

Maybe a title for a video on the class 230 for yourself your contents excellent too.

 

[Zontar]

Maybe a title for a video on the class 230 for yourself your contents excellent too.

Ok, but what do you propose they do NOW not what they should have done years ago.

That's the point, they can't do anything with them now.

They've bought them outright and made a depot for them.

No one will buy them.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Removing the batteries and making them a pure DEMU would probably raise the reliability a bit.
It'd a bit of a shame really as I really like the interiors. They are better in that respect than the 777's!

 

[chrisjo]

No one will buy them.

Just wondering. Have you looked to see where they lie in the most recent tables of fleet reliability statistics?

 

[Zontar]

Just wondering. Have you looked to see where they lie in the most recent tables of fleet reliability statistics?

No. I just see the daily commuters, including myself, get let down on a line that they are there to provide for.

The fact that there are only 5 units makes them more problematic.

I don't really care where they perform on national benchmarking, nor would you if your weekly travel plans were constantly being disrupted.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2025 ==

Maybe a title for a video on the class 230 for yourself your contents excellent too.

What's the problem with my context?

 

[Anonymous10]

No. I just see the daily commuters, including myself, get let down on a line that they are there to provide for.

The fact that there are only 5 units makes them more problematic.

I don't really care where they perform on national benchmarking, nor would you if your weekly travel plans were constantly being disrupted.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2025 ==


What's the problem with my context?

Vanmanyo is a youtuber so the reply he gave would make a good youtube title

 

[Zontar]

Vanmanyo is a youtuber so the reply he gave would make a good youtube title

That makes more sense

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

230009 taken out of service with suspected dragging brakes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

More cancellations today due to 230007 unable to gain power

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jun 2025 ==

Last train cancelled at bidston last night. 230006 was the culprit and failed. My old man was stuck out there and had to pick him up.
As a side note the level of organisation getting ppl home was awful. All they cared about was the station closing at midnight

 

[kieron]

Now the 197s have gone, the trains for the line all spend the night in Birkenhead (or Wrexham?) rather than Chester or Crewe or wherever, but the first trains of the day still start from Wrexham General platform 3. Does anyone know if there's anything to stop them using platform 4 instead? 4 would suit me better as a passenger as there are no steps.

 

[Sheridan]

There’s a cross-platform change from the Shrewsbury-Liverpool service that arrives around 0615. I think I’ve seen traincrew arrive on that one as well.

Same with the 0656, there’s an arrival from Shrewsbury 5 minutes beforehand.

Edited to say that I don’t know if that’s the reason or not, but it seems like it could be a factor.

 

[kieron]

Thanks, that sounds logical. The one evening train which terminates in platform 3 also has a connection to a train to Chester. The other two trains terminate in Wrexham Central. If they use Shrewsbury guards, there couldn't be a cross-platform connection for those whatever they did.

 

[craigybagel]

There’s a cross-platform change from the Shrewsbury-Liverpool service that arrives around 0615. I think I’ve seen traincrew arrive on that one as well.

Same with the 0656, there’s an arrival from Shrewsbury 5 minutes beforehand.

Edited to say that I don’t know if that’s the reason or not, but it seems like it could be a factor.

Thanks, that sounds logical. The one evening train which terminates in platform 3 also has a connection to a train to Chester. The other two trains terminate in Wrexham Central. If they use Shrewsbury guards, there couldn't be a cross-platform connection for those whatever they did.

That's not how it works. You don't want to write traincrew diagrams so tight that it requires a cross platform connection to make it work. The guards for the services from Wrexham all arrive on earlier services than the ones with short connections, and the guard off the late afternoon service that terminates on 3 hasa break before their next duties.

 

[Sheridan]

That's not how it works. You don't want to write traincrew diagrams so tight that it requires a cross platform connection to make it work. The guards for the services from Wrexham all arrive on earlier services than the ones with short connections, and the guard off the late afternoon service that terminates on 3 hasa break before their next duties.

Yes, sorry, the traincrew comment was an aside really, I meant to make a more general comment about the cross-platform change.

Is there any other reason for them using 3 rather than 4? Perhaps just a legacy of when the units came from Chester?

 

[craigybagel]

Yes, sorry, the traincrew comment was an aside really, I meant to make a more general comment about the cross-platform change.

Is there any other reason for them using 3 rather than 4? Perhaps just a legacy of when the units came from Chester?

My bad, looking back over the post I realised I misinterpreted it.

Not sure on the reasoning I'm afraid - I do sign Wrexham General but not the Bidston line. It might be that the signalling isn't set up to allow a train to easily turn around in 4 as it's never been required in the past? When services run through to Central, the traincrew need to ring the signaller to confirm the train has arrived complete there before it can return, as the box has no way of knowing, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's tied in with that. The signalling around Wrexham is pretty limiting in terms of what you can and can't do.

 

[WirralLine]

Not sure on the reasoning I'm afraid - I do sign Wrexham General but not the Bidston line. It might be that the signalling isn't set up to allow a train to easily turn around in 4 as it's never been required in the past? When services run through to Central, the traincrew need to ring the signaller to confirm the train has arrived complete there before it can return, as the box has no way of knowing, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's tied in with that. The signalling around Wrexham is pretty limiting in terms of what you can and can't do

Starting from 4 toward Bidston works in exactly the same way as if you were going to Central, you just don't go to Central! In the old timetable there were a couple of services which didnt go to Central during the day and started from General p4. Off the top of my head the 1430 ish being one of them. Train arrives, guard confirms the train is complete with signaller, change ends and away you go. I believe the driver confirms taillights if the train arrives ECS but not sue.

I think it stems from pre 230 where the Units came empty from either Chester or the bay platforms at General. It saved having to shunt through platform 3 to then shunt back into 4. Of course now the 230s come from Birkenhead there's no need for this as they can go into either 3 or 4.

 

[Steve B]

In the present timetable there are a couple of services that don't go to Central but terminate in platform 4 - 16.32 and 1943. The last train of the day (23.56) also terminates at General, but in that case uses platform 3. I agree that looks like a hangover from the days that the trains went to Chester or Shrewsbury for stabling.

 

[Zontar]

230007 failed yesterday. More cancellations