Avanti Class 221s to Cross Country

[duffield]

I did have a rule that at busy times I'd only travel XC if it was allocated a double unit on the day, but I've revised that to "avoid regardless" since the chances of the second unit being locked out have increased significantly.

 

[class 9]

Worth pointing out that Virgin wanted to order additional voyager carriages when it became obvious 4 and 5 carriages weren't enough for the XC network but they were over ruled by the oh so wonderful SRA that some of you may remember made other 'smart' decisions... like cutting the number of class 185s ordered

I think the crux of the problem back then was who pays, Virgin wanted government to finance them, Government wanted Virgin to pay, hence the stalemate.

 

[E B]

Hopefully an increase in train lengths won't require any more drivers? Though crew shortages might be an issue if more are needed to double up units

I got on a 9 car voyager from Birmingham New Street to York. Midway through the journey, they told us all that the train would ‘split’ at Leeds and any passengers going further (all the way to edinburgh) had to leave the comfort of an ex-avanti voyager to get crammed (to the point where people were getting left behind) in the vestibule of a 4 car 220. When i got off at York, the rear unit was still attached! Probably due to these staff shortages.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

It is for everyone - including the staff who now need to lock out sets and work overcrowded half trains.

I was on a unit recently that needed the rear unit locked out of use and it took half an hour to get everyone and their luggage off and onto the front unit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2025 ==


Possibly due to the much lower number of seats? The Avanti units not only have a shop but also have the coach with the all-table seat layout.

Not to mention the amount of space the toilets take up...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2025 ==

Looking at tomorrow's allocations, the final Aberdeen - Penzance has an additional 4 coaches from Newcastle to Bristol.

I rode 221114 from Birmingham to Leeds last weekend

 

[357]

they told us all that the train would ‘split’ at Leeds

I don't blame them. People will move much faster and are less likely to argue or even refuse to leave the set if they think those carriages aren't going any further

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don't blame them. People will move much faster and are less likely to argue or even refuse to leave the set if they think those carriages aren't going any further

Lying to customers is never a great look.

 

[RealTrains07]

XC was atrocious yesterday. I really hope now alot of the extra 221s are coming into service this will change things for the better.

Lack of crew so the XC train I was on got turned around early with no warning then the following XC train one was 4 car so was rammed. Absolute nightmare, i hope this is not going to become a regular occurrence and XC get their act together soon.

 

[357]

Lying to customers is never a great look.

When the end result is the same (nobody in that unit) and there is a recorded history of abuse and assaults in that sort of situation - I'd be pointing my fingers at the management who created this situation rather than traincrew who don't want to be abused or punched in the face, and keep things moving.

Personally I'd just say the rear unit will terminate rather than split, but I'd rather tell a white lie and keep the train moving as close to on time as possible, rather than give a detailed explanation to everyone about why the train is remaining full length but half of it can't be used, while increasing the risk of the train being cancelled if someone kicks off.

 

[Russel]

Lying to customers is never a great look.

It's not, but in reality how many normal passengers, non enthusiasts are going to notice that the rear 4 coaches are still there? Most get off and walk straight towards the exit without looking back, especially if it's busy.

 

[E B]

Probably some, especially if the exit is at the rear of the platform.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Looks like the majority of ex Avanti 221s are in service today. Only 107, 111, and 115 are not on diagrams

 

[E B]

Yeah, I saw 114 today at New Street

 

[voyagerdude220]

Looks like the majority of ex Avanti 221s are in service today. Only 107, 111, and 115 are not on diagrams

Has 107 been in service since it's "thermal incident" over a week ago?

 

[Russel]

Probably some, especially if the exit is at the rear of the platform.

Very, very few.

 

[99009]

221111 is now entering service with XC today. It's currently allocated 1H14 Birmingham NS - Man Picc.

This means all 12 221's ex Avanti (221107-221118) have now entered service with XC.

The 221 fleet now and for the foreseeable future is allocated as follows...

221101 - 221106 - Spare + Unknown Future (Possible Open Access)
221107 - 221141 - XC
221142 + 221143 - Grand Central (Then Spare + Unknown Future + Possible Open Access)
221144 - XC

Also @voyagerdude220 no, I don't believe 221107 has been in service since.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Also @voyagerdude220 no, I don't believe 221107 has been in service since.

Thanks for that.

 

[47444]

221101 - 221106 - Spare + Unknown Future (Possible Open Access)

Are 221101 to 106 stored at Central Rivers or somewhere else?

 

[Class172]

221111 is now entering service with XC today. It's currently allocated 1H14 Birmingham NS - Man Picc.

It was pulled from service at New St on the following southbound journey, I understand due to onboard computer issues.

 

[43055]

Are 221101 to 106 stored at Central Rivers or somewhere else?

I haven't got the numbers but at least 3 or 4 221's were at Alstom Litchurch Lane Derby.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It was pulled from service at New St on the following southbound journey, I understand due to onboard computer issues.

Also 221110 failed at Darlington this afternoon whilst working 14:35 Newcastle to Reading. Two engines out (both driving cars). I believe it had engine issues last Saturday whilst working 13:08 Edinburgh to Plymouth, but it was able to complete it's journey on Saturday.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Also 221110 failed at Darlington this afternoon whilst working 14:35 Newcastle to Reading. Two engines out (both driving cars). I believe it had engine issues last Saturday whilst working 13:08 Edinburgh to Plymouth, but it was able to complete it's journey on Saturday.

Parked at Darlington overnight and dare say engineers will attend Wedneday morning

 

[voyagerdude220]

Parked at Darlington overnight and dare say engineers will attend Wedneday morning

Thanks, I was wondering what had happened to it. I'm guessing it's not possible for it to simply be coupled to a healthy Voyager and take it to Central Rivers for attention.

 

[Iskra]

221111 is now entering service with XC today. It's currently allocated 1H14 Birmingham NS - Man Picc.

This means all 12 221's ex Avanti (221107-221118) have now entered service with XC.

The 221 fleet now and for the foreseeable future is allocated as follows...

221101 - 221106 - Spare + Unknown Future (Possible Open Access)
221107 - 221141 - XC
221142 + 221143 - Grand Central (Then Spare + Unknown Future + Possible Open Access)
221144 - XC

Also @voyagerdude220 no, I don't believe 221107 has been in service since.

It’s a shame that the remaining spare sets can’t be utilised while the Open Access operation comes to fruition. Even trains sat still have to be maintained and storage paid for, so may as well use them to make revenue.

And do we know which OA operator these sets are likely to end up with?

 

[357]

It’s a shame that the remaining spare sets can’t be utilised while the Open Access operation comes to fruition. Even trains sat still have to be maintained and storage paid for, so may as well use them to make revenue.

And do we know which OA operator these sets are likely to end up with?

If XC wanted to pay, something would be worked out.

It would make absolute sense for their new operator or the ROSCO to give short term lease on them.

 

[swt_passenger]

If XC wanted to pay, something would be worked out.

It would make absolute sense for their new operator or the ROSCO to give short term lease on them.

XC themselves cannot make such a decision. DfT are 100% responsible for decisions about the XC fleet size.

 

[357]

XC themselves cannot make such a decision. DfT are 100% responsible for decisions about the XC fleet size.

You know exactly what I mean

 

[AlanL]

It’s a shame that the remaining spare sets can’t be utilised while the Open Access operation comes to fruition. Even trains sat still have to be maintained and storage paid for, so may as well use them to make revenue.

And do we know which OA operator these sets are likely to end up with?

The Wrexham Shropshire and Midlands Railway are 'hopeful' of getting the go-ahead soon for their open access plans and Alstom are very involved in the plans and will be looking to be using the 6 remaining stored 221s for their services from Wrexham to Euston. However, nothing is yet confirmed!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The Wrexham Shropshire and Midlands Railway are 'hopeful' of getting the go-ahead soon for their open access plans and Alstom are very involved in the plans and will be looking to be using the 6 remaining stored 221s for their services from Wrexham to Euston. However, nothing is yet confirmed!

I personally think the idea of six much needed Voyagers not going to CrossCountry purely so so they can be used on a niche direct London service to Mid Wales and Shropshire of all places (take three), is actually really annoying.

In a similar way, Grand Central having two Voyagers that would be very useful at CrossCountry when four more of the very Adelantes that make up their main fleet are languishing at Ely is very annoying.

 

[Iskra]

I personally think the idea of six much needed Voyagers not going to CrossCountry purely so so they can be used on a niche direct London service to Mid Wales and Shropshire of all places (take three), is actually really annoying.

In a similar way, Grand Central having two Voyagers that would be very useful at CrossCountry when four more of the very Adelantes that make up their main fleet are languishing at Ely is very annoying.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[Liam L]

Looks like the majority of ex Avanti 221s are in service today. Only 107, 111, and 115 are not on diagrams

I presume 107 is not in traffic due to it's 'fire' at Stafford on it's first day in traffic with XC.

 

[357]

I personally think the idea of six much needed Voyagers not going to CrossCountry purely so so they can be used on a niche direct London service to Mid Wales and Shropshire of all places (take three), is actually really annoying.

In a similar way, Grand Central having two Voyagers that would be very useful at CrossCountry when four more of the very Adelantes that make up their main fleet are languishing at Ely is very annoying.

But that isn't the reason those units are elsewhere.

The two GC units were out of traffic for a long time before GC took them - they could have gone to XC then.

In the same way that I'm sure the ROSCO would have preferred for all the remaining Voyagers to go to one operator to avoid a situation where some do and another operator takes some of the rest but not all - leaving unwanted units sitting in sidings.

If the people controlling XC wanted those units, they could have had them. I don't understand why so many people don't understand this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2025 ==

I presume 107 is not in traffic due to it's 'fire' at Stafford on it's first day in traffic with XC.

This 221 identifies as a 180

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2025 ==

four more of the very Adelantes that make up their main fleet are languishing at Ely

XC can take them if they are so desperate .