Notice of intended prosecution Chiltern Railways

[worriedparent]

did you recieve any reply?

Update!!
We received a reply in the first week of December. Chiltern mentioned that they have the right to prosecute, however they feel the repercussions will be far too detrimental and as he has had no priors. Therefore, charged us £180 for administrative expenses that they’d had to incur on the case.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for updating us, it is very helpful to know the result of casesso we can assist other people in the future.

£180 is a reasonable result and certainly cheaper than using a solicitor.

 

[worriedparent]

Hi @Hadders we were shocked yesterday to have received another one of those letters after the first case was closed in December.

While the language is identical, it’s back dated to September. Core issue is the same my son was travelling on an expired railcard, carelessly booking tickets on Trainline without checking expiration date. First time he couldn’t produce a ticket because his phone battery had died and was asked his name and address.
This time he had a ticket to show but no one asked about his railcard, neither was he stopped or asked about his details. Could they be digging through his past purchases and sending letters now?
He has already apologised to them, paid what they asked, bought a railcard, has been extremely careful while booking tickets, since realising in October.

I’m very nervous this time as this is the second time theyve sent a letter so he will be considered as having had history regarding fare evasion, even though we thought we had addressed it last time.

My son has drafted something please let us know if it will persuade them to let him off the hook.

Dear Mr. Ismail,

I am emailing you in response to your letter dated 10th January 2025, that I received on 16th January 2025.

I would like to apologize and accept responsibility for the incident on 19th September where I failed to show a valid rail card but I did have the rail ticket.
As you will observe from the previous mails that I received a letter from Chiltern Railways in October regarding a similar incident in July, until that letter arrived I was still buying tickets on a railcard that was no longer valid. I take full responsibility for inadvertently making this mistake and would like to give context surrounding this matter. In September 2022, at age 16, I started using a train service (Chiltern Railways) for the first time in life to commute to/from school (before that, I used to commute to/ from school via school bus) based on a 16-17 Saver Railcard that my parents bought me (Image attached below). I did not realize that the Railcard was valid only for a year and hence continued to use it even after it expired in September 2023, relying on the booking process of the Trainline app which does not take into account the Railcard Number / Barcode, etc to check validity. I now realise that I should have got a new 16-25 Saver Railcard in September 2023 (after I turned 17 in August 2023) and apologize for this complete oversight on my part in my daily rush of catching the train, distractions with A-levels and not focusing on this important aspect.

Since receiving the first letter in October I promptly bought a railcard. I have been extremely mindful of buying the right tickets just as I promised. You will see from my records that I have not faulted since our last exchange.

This is a life lesson for me, stress over this situation is a huge punishment for me and I deeply regret it and am committed to never making this kind of an error again. Upon receiving the letter, I brought this to my parents' attention and have realised my mistake. I have now bought a new 16-25 Railcard (Image attached below) and have also put a reminder on my phone regarding its expiration on October 15, 2025.

As you will note, I had just turned 18 a month ago at the time of this incident. I have been extremely diligent and mindful since receiving the first letter from Chiltern in October regarding incident in July. As you will note from my ticket transactions. None of this is meant to be an excuse and I request if this matter can be settled without the need for court action so that this genuine oversight early on in life does not affect my chances later on in life. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and the administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I sincerely hope you will consider my request sympathetically and allow me an opportunity to learn from this matter and become more aware and mindful in every aspect of life going forward.

Kind Regards

We will attach the expired railcard, Current valid one and train ticket from September 19th.

We appreciate your help. This has been very stressful.

 

[WesternLancer]

It does seem to now be standard for railcard errors to then be checked back to see if there is a history of other occurrences (either by mistake or deliberate). So this is almost certainly what they have done.

 

[30907]

Could you upload a copy (redacted) of the letter from Chiltern, please? I am not yet sure which offences Chiltern are asking about.

 

[worriedparent]

Could you upload a copy (redacted) of the letter from Chiltern, please? I am not yet sure which offences Chiltern are asking about.

 

[Haywain]

It does seem to now be standard for railcard errors to then be checked back to see if there is a history of other occurrences (either by mistake or deliberate). So this is almost certainly what they have done.

Having seen the letter, it appears that the prosecution avenue is open as this was a separate incident which is not covered by the previous settlement.

 

[30907]

The letter states that the young person was spoken to and their details taken.

The reply needs to focus on that and admit that they did not have a railcard (which discount were they claiming BTW?)

At this stage I would leave out the history from Sept 23 to Aug 24 (when they were claiming 16-17 discount with no railcard).

Chiltern already know that they are a repeat offender, and will no doubt come back with a settlement offer that reflects it.

 

[worriedparent]

It does seem to now be standard for railcard errors to then be checked back to see if there is a history of other occurrences (either by mistake or deliberate). So this is almost certainly what they have

The letter states that the young person was spoken to and their details taken.

The reply needs to focus on that and admit that they did not have a railcard (which discount were they claiming BTW?)

At this stage I would leave out the history from Sept 23 to Aug 24 (when they were claiming 16-17 discount with no railcard).

Chiltern already know that they are a repeat offender, and will no doubt come back with a settlement offer that reflects it.

Thank you.
We would like to highlight that since receiving the first letter in October, steps have been taken to rectify the past mistakes. Until then he continued to use the expired 16-17 saver carelessly. Don’t want them to get an impression that this was being done on purpose.

He was not stopped this time and hadn’t given his name and address. It seems to me that they’ve found other transactions upon checking his past bookings.

 

[Haywain]

Until then he continued to use the expired 16-17 saver carelessly. Don’t want them to get an impression that this was being done on purpose.

They are just not going to believe that it was anything other than intentional. They might well wonder why it still took until October to stop using the 16-17 Saver.

He was not stopped this time and hadn’t given his name and address.

The letter you have uploaded in post #36 clearly states he was stopped and spoken to on 19th September.

It seems to me that they’ve found other transactions upon checking his past bookings.

Having stopped him twice in a short time it's not surprising that they might look further.

 

[worriedparent]

They are just not going to believe that it was anything other than intentional. They might well wonder why it still took until October to stop using the 16-17 Saver.

The letter you have uploaded in post #36 clearly states he was stopped and spoken to on 19th September.

Having stopped him twice in a short time it's not surprising that they might look further.

Thank you

 

[Hadders]

Can you confirm - has your son been stopped twice? I'm assuming he hasn't but I want to be certain.

 

[Spaceship323]

Can you confirm - has your son been stopped twice? I'm assuming he hasn't but I want to be certain.

Post #1 stopped 31st July, Post #36 stopped again 19th September (although OP claims he wasn't stopped a second time)

 

[Hadders]

Post #1 stopped 31st July, Post #36 stopped again 19th September (although OP claims he wasn't stopped a second time)

This is why I want confirmation from @worried parent

If @worried parent son has been stopped more than once then my advice will be different compared to this being a data trawl by Chiltern and them just sending an erroneously worded standard letter.

 

[worriedparent]

This is why I want confirmation from @worried parent

If @worried parent son has been stopped more than once then my advice will be different compared to this being a data trawl by Chiltern and them just sending an erroneously worded standard letter.

He was stopped the first time when he gave his details. Second time the letter claims he was but in reality he had bought the ticket online using the same expired railcard as before but never made the journey.
He reached High Wycombe station from another place and exited meet a friend instead of reaching Beaconsfield. He has evidence in the form of text messages and bank statement to prove that he’d taken the bus instead. So no chance he was stopped between High Wycombe and Beaconsfield.

 

[Haywain]

He was stopped the first time when he gave his details. Second time the letter claims he was but in reality he had bought the ticket online using the same expired railcard as before but never made the journey.
He reached High Wycombe station from another place and exited meet a friend instead of reaching Beaconsfield. He has evidence in the form of text messages and bank statement to prove that he’d taken the bus instead. So no chance he was stopped between High Wycombe and Beaconsfield.

To be honest, that doesn't sound like convincing evidence.

 

[Hadders]

He was stopped the first time when he gave his details. Second time the letter claims he was but in reality he had bought the ticket online using the same expired railcard as before but never made the journey.
He reached High Wycombe station from another place and exited meet a friend instead of reaching Beaconsfield. He has evidence in the form of text messages and bank statement to prove that he’d taken the bus instead. So no chance he was stopped between High Wycombe and Beaconsfield.

Forget the wording of the second letter, meeting friends and text messages.

What I need to know is was your son stopped and questioned by Chiltern a second time.

 

[worriedparent]

To be honest, that doesn't sound like convincing evidence.

These are

Forget the wording of the second letter, meeting friends and text messages.

What I need to know is was your son stopped and questioned by Chiltern a second time.

he wasn’t.

 

[Hadders]

he wasn’t.

Thanks for confirming.

What often happens is that once someone has come to the attention of a train company they often research their online ticket purchasing history looking for further irregularities. They then contact the person essentially to seek further reimbursement.

 

[worriedparent]

Thanks for confirming.

What often happens is that once someone has come to the attention of a train company they often research their online ticket purchasing history looking for further irregularities. They then contact the person essentially to seek further reimbursement.

Thank you. This is what we suspect has happened.
We are planning to state the fact that he did not make the journey, nor was he stopped by an authority.Acknowledge that he had bought an e ticket online using the the same expired railcard as before and link it to the first letter. As it’s the same issue as before.
Since October he has promptly bought a new railcard, has a record of correct tickets.
This has been extremely stressful for him.
What can he do to put this matter behind.

Does this approach make sense?

We are extremely worried this time. Stress from this has been punishment enough.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2025 ==

how can we ensure that they stop sending us multiple letters and through a thorough search of records, allow us to reimburse them in one go?

 

[Hadders]

I think something along these lines will be fine. Purchasing tickets is not an offence but using them illegally is. It is highly unlikely that Chiltern have any proof that the tickets were used illegally if your son was not stopped. Clearly the incident where he was stopped has been dealt with and can no longer be pursued.

I am confident that Chiltern will offer another settlement.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you. This is what we suspect has happened.
We are planning to state the fact that he did not make the journey, nor was he stopped by an authority.Acknowledge that he had bought an e ticket online using the the same expired railcard as before and link it to the first letter. As it’s the same issue as before.
Since October he has promptly bought a new railcard, has a record of correct tickets.
This has been extremely stressful for him.
What can he do to put this matter behind.

Does this approach make sense?

We are extremely worried this time. Stress from this has been punishment enough.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2025 ==

how can we ensure that they stop sending us multiple letters and through a thorough search of records, allow us to reimburse them in one go?

Ref your last question, train companies seem to often send list of suspected occasions when they believe someone has used wrong tickets. As a spreadsheet table iirc, and asked the passenger to verify it as the basis of a settlement. No doubt generated from a data trawl by the likes of Trainline etc.

I’m tempted to suggest when you reply about this instance you perhaps ask for such a list if this would help resolve the stress it’s causing your son. But word it carefully ie in such a way that it doesn’t admit more evasion but is co operative.

Eg along lines of ‘if you believe there may be other occasions when I have travelled without the correct ticket please send me a list so that I can check against my own records in order to try and resolve any outstanding queries’ after explaining that on the occasion recently mentioned your son did not in the end travel or some such.

No doubt others can pitch in if they think this suggestion is not a good idea.

Once again, post any draft letter to them here if you want it checking.

 

[worriedparent]

I think something along these lines will be fine. Purchasing tickets is not an offence but using them illegally is. It is highly unlikely that Chiltern have any proof that the tickets were used illegally if your son was not stopped. Clearly the incident where he was stopped has been dealt with and can no longer be pursued.

I am confident that Chiltern will offer another settlement.

Hi thank you for your response. Ticket was not used by him as the journey was not made.
What does ticket used illegally mean? Thanks

 

[John R]

Hi thank you for your response. Ticket was not used by him as the journey was not made.
What does ticket used illegally mean? Thanks

For example, purchased with a Railcard discount which the traveller is not entitled to, as they have not got one. And then travelled on that ticket. If they didn't travel on that ticket they didn't commit an offence, but persuading Chiltern that is the case might be difficult given the history (even more so if the ticket has been scanned at some point).

 

[worriedparent]

Thank you for explaining. We don’t want to dispute the fact that error has been made in using an expired railcard while buying e tickets. Only that he shouldn’t get penalised more than once for it. Specially after he has taken steps to address the issue.
First time was stressful enough for him but this time it’s worse on his mental health. Just hope Chiltern will look at the facts as they are and allow him an opportunity to move forward from here.
I will update the group when we hear from them.

Thank you for your valuable advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for explaining. We don’t want to dispute the fact that error has been made in using an expired railcard while buying e tickets. Only that he shouldn’t get penalised more than once for it. Specially after he has taken steps to address the issue.
First time was stressful enough for him but this time it’s worse on his mental health. Just hope Chiltern will look at the facts as they are and allow him an opportunity to move forward from here.
I will update the group when we hear from them.

Thank you for your valuable advice.

Just to clarify. What do you mean by penalised more than once?

They will be seeking all funds for fares they think are owed. Not a penalty as such but of course they will seek to charge the non discounted fare, which may seem like a penalty if sorts. They will seek an admin fee to reflect the work involved in obtaining these fares. Obviously you want to avoid paying multiple admin fees. Hopefully the way to do that is to tell them clearly in one go all the trips with wrong tickets that need to be paid (or confirm in one go which trips they think have had wrong fares paid). Hence my advice above really about getting them to send you a list that you can check. In the hope all the ‘admin’ is done in one go.

I’m sure others will say if this is poor advice and you can weigh up best next steps.

Obviously I wish you good luck in resolving this with minimum stress for your son.

 

[worriedparent]

Just to clarify. What do you mean by penalised more than once?

They will be seeking all funds for fares they think are owed. Not a penalty as such but of course they will seek to charge the non discounted fare, which may seem like a penalty if sorts. They will seek an admin fee to reflect the work involved in obtaining these fares. Obviously you want to avoid paying multiple admin fees. Hopefully the way to do that is to tell them clearly in one go all the trips with wrong tickets that need to be paid (or confirm in one go which trips they think have had wrong fares paid). Hence my advice above really about getting them to send you a list that you can check. In the hope all the ‘admin’ is done in one go.

I’m sure others will say if this is poor advice and you can weigh up best next steps.

Obviously I wish you good luck in resolving this with minimum stress for your son.

This is good advice. Thank you.
We are happy to pay for the tickets and admin costs.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is good advice. Thank you.
We are happy to pay for the tickets and admin costs.

Good luck with it. Obviously as things develop head here for the advice you need or if anything unclear.

 

[djm1889]

Hi,

My son has received this letter from Chiltern Railways Economic crime, fraud and Prosecutions unit.

He has in the past bought monthly season passes to travel between Beaconsfield and High Wycombe but after his exams bought tickets on days he had to travel.
He has indeed sometimes only bought one way ticket due to carelessness, dead phone and in a rush. May have used expired rail card as well. There are 6-7 such instances out of the whole year where he has defaulted as I can see through the app. Rest of the times are covered through monthly passes and proper return tickets.

In this scenario, that I am considering to be grave as he has just started at university, is a bright and hard working student. A prosecution/ Conviction will destroy his entire life.

Should we attempt to respond to this ourselves or hire a solicitor? Please can someone experienced in this field advise?

Regards,
A very worried parent

Can anyone advise, if you do have a valid railcard in this situation but you had bought your ticket while on the train?

 

[John R]

Can anyone advise, if you do have a valid railcard in this situation but you had bought your ticket while on the train?

Please start your own thread if you need advise, as the forum has a policy of only discussing one situation per thread. This is as no two cases are ever identical, and it prevents the thread being taken off topic from its purpose of advising the original poster.