Notice of intended prosecution Chiltern Railways

[worriedparent]

Hi,

My son has received this letter from Chiltern Railways Economic crime, fraud and Prosecutions unit.

He has in the past bought monthly season passes to travel between Beaconsfield and High Wycombe but after his exams bought tickets on days he had to travel.
He has indeed sometimes only bought one way ticket due to carelessness, dead phone and in a rush. May have used expired rail card as well. There are 6-7 such instances out of the whole year where he has defaulted as I can see through the app. Rest of the times are covered through monthly passes and proper return tickets.

In this scenario, that I am considering to be grave as he has just started at university, is a bright and hard working student. A prosecution/ Conviction will destroy his entire life.

Should we attempt to respond to this ourselves or hire a solicitor? Please can someone experienced in this field advise?

Regards,
A very worried parent

 

[Haywain]

A prosecution/ Conviction will destroy his entire life.

It won’t. A bye law or RoRA conviction might be a bit on the expensive side for student but it’s a very minor offence in the grand scheme of things.

Should we attempt to respond to this ourselves or hire a solicitor? Please can someone experienced in this field advise?

There is no reason that you can’t handle this without professional legal assistance. You can find posts on other threads with advice on how to respond, but they will also appear here in due course.

 

[John R]

Your son should respond, apologise profusely and, given the subject of previous instances is mentioned, confirm the previous occasions when he failed to have a ticket for the journey. He should also promise to ensure he has the correct rail ticket in future.

He should then ask very nicely if Chiltern would be open to offering an out of court settlement instead of prosecuting, and confirm that he understands that any settlement would include not only the fares avoided, but Chiltern's costs in dealing with his fare evasion. As he is at University, hopefully he can do it without recourse to AI, as letters so generated stand out a mile, and look very insincere.

 

[worriedparent]

Thank you. We are in the process of drafting an email, he will take lead on it.

Your son should respond, apologise profusely and, given the subject of previous instances is mentioned, confirm the previous occasions when he failed to have a ticket for the journey. He should also promise to ensure he has the correct rail ticket in future.

He should then ask very nicely if Chiltern would be open to offering an out of court settlement instead of prosecuting, and confirm that he understands that any settlement would include not only the fares avoided, but Chiltern's costs in dealing with his fare evasion. As he is at University, hopefully he can do it without recourse to AI, as letters so generated stand out a mile, and look very insincere.

It won’t. A bye law or RoRA conviction might be a bit on the expensive side for student but it’s a very minor offence in the grand scheme of things.

There is no reason that you can’t handle this without professional legal assistance. You can find posts on other threads with advice on how to respond, but they will also appear here in due course.

Thank you. I will research and draft the mail.

 

[WesternLancer]

Your son should respond, apologise profusely and, given the subject of previous instances is mentioned, confirm the previous occasions when he failed to have a ticket for the journey. He should also promise to ensure he has the correct rail ticket in future.

He should then ask very nicely if Chiltern would be open to offering an out of court settlement instead of prosecuting, and confirm that he understands that any settlement would include not only the fares avoided, but Chiltern's costs in dealing with his fare evasion. As he is at University, hopefully he can do it without recourse to AI, as letters so generated stand out a mile, and look very insincere.

And if this good advice doesn't work that would then be the stage when it might be worth engaging a solicitor.

 

[Hadders]

I suggest mentioning the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern have become much more reasonable to deal with this year and will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate plus an admin fee, typically around £150.

There's no need to involve a solicitor at this stage. Should your initial reply not result in a favourable outcome then that is the point when I would consider using a solicitor.

Note that the letter should 'come from' your son but there's nothing stopping you from helping him to write it. If you post a draft in this thread we will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[worriedparent]

I suggest mentioning the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern have become much more reasonable to deal with this year and will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate plus an admin fee, typically around £150.

There's no need to involve a solicitor at this stage. Should your initial reply not result in a favourable outcome then that is the point when I would consider using a solicitor.

Note that the letter should 'come from' your son but there's nothing stopping you from helping him to write it. If you post a draft in this thread we will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thank you. He is drafting a mail. I will post here for feedback.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2024 ==

Thank you. He is drafting a mail. I will post here for feedback.

 

[worriedparent]

Hi, I’ll appreciate if someone can kindly help polish this draft.

"Further to the letter I have received

Dated 11th October 2024, I’am writing to express my sincere apologies and deep regret for the incident on Wednesday 31st July 2024 and the inconvenience this has caused to the Chiltern Railways staff.



I appreciate the opportunity to provide context surrounding this matter.

At the start of September 2022, I began taking the train to school regularly at the age of 16. My parents purchased the 16-17 railcard for me. I mistakenly believed that it was valid indefinitely. For the duration of September 2022 to September 2023, I paid for monthly tickets from Beaconsfield to High Wycombe under the railcard discount.

The months leading to December 2023 were a stressful time for me and my family as we were planning to move houses in December. On top of that, I was highly focused on my A-Level studies.

In September 2023, when my railcard expired, I continued to purchase tickets with the discount, mistakenly believing I was still eligible for that fare. Purchasing any ticket in the Trainline app allows you to apply the 16-17 saver (or any railcard for that matter) without actually having it. I was not aware of that at the time, which led me to believe that it must have been active.



I have learnt that I must manage my journeys with efficient time management and mindfulness, remember to keep my railcard updated and phone charged to buy tickets through app, and always be in a position to provide proof of fare.



I wondered if it would be possible for this to be settled out of court as I have just begun my Bsc Maths as a student at University and any prosecution will destroy my future.



Since receiving the letter I have been extremely worried and as rectification I would like to pay for the outstanding fare and Chiltern Railways administrative costs in dealing with the matters."


Thank you so much to everyone who have helped us so far.

 

[Haywain]

I mistakenly believed that it was valid indefinitely.

Indefinitely? I think that will be seen as difficult to believe. It would be understandable to think it valid until turning 18, but indefinite stretches credulity. I also think it would be wise for the letter to clarify when your son turned 18

(or any railcard for that matter)

Delete this, it gives lie to the idea that the 16-17 was automatically applied, by suggesting other railcards were tried.

and any prosecution will destroy my future.

Destroy is a bit over the top - try damage or harm instead.

 

[worriedparent]

Indefinitely? I think that will be seen as difficult to believe. It would be understandable to think it valid until turning 18, but indefinite stretches credulity. I also think it would be wise for the letter to clarify when your son turned 18

Delete this, it gives lie to the idea that the 16-17 was automatically applied, by suggesting other railcards were tried.

Destroy is a bit over the top - try damage or harm instead.

Thank you @Haywain. Edited now.
ear Chiltern Railways,



Further to the letter I have received

Dated 11th October 2024, I’am writing to express my sincere apologies and deep regret for the incident on Wednesday 31st July 2024 and the inconvenience this has caused to the Chiltern Railways staff.

I appreciate the opportunity to provide context surrounding this matter.

At the start of September 2022, I began taking the train to school regularly at the age of 16. My parents purchased the 16-17 railcard for me. I mistakenly believed that it was valid until I turn 18, which was on August 18th 2024. For the duration of September 2022 to September 2023, I paid for monthly tickets from Beaconsfield to High Wycombe under the railcard discount.

The months leading to December 2023 were a stressful time for me and my family as we were planning to move houses in December. On top of that, I was highly focused on my A-Level studies.

In September 2023, when my railcard expired, I continued to purchase tickets with the discount, mistakenly believing I was still eligible for that fare.

I have learnt that I must manage my journeys with efficient time management and mindfulness, remember to keep my railcard updated and phone charged to buy tickets through app, and always be in a position to provide proof of fare.

I wondered if it would be possible for this to be settled out of court as I have just begun my Bsc Maths as a student at University and any prosecution will damage my future.

Since receiving the letter I have been extremely worried and as rectification I would like to pay for the outstanding fare and Chiltern Railways administrative costs in dealing with the matters.

 

[Fermiboson]

I am of the opinion that the entire section from “I appreciate the opportunity…” to “A level studies” should be deleted. I appreciate that study stress is, well, stressful and can genuinely affect rational judgement, but to be quite blunt the railway doesn’t care; your son committed a criminal offence that the railway is fully entitled to prosecute. The guy reading the letter reads hundreds of these each day. Most contain a unique sob story and no matter how genuine and impactful it is unlikely such a story will improve their impression of your son.

I would remove the part about starting the BSc - not much upside and the downside is “if he’s so smart why did he fare evade”?

I would suggest somewhere in the letter to add something indicating you understand fare evasion is morally wrong (eg costs the taxpayer millions of £s/yr), which would help with the sincerity.

 

[Haywain]

remember to keep my railcard updated

Has he now bought a 16-25 Railcard? If so, say so.

 

[worriedparent]

I am of the opinion that the entire section from “I appreciate the opportunity…” to “A level studies” should be deleted. I appreciate that study stress is, well, stressful and can genuinely affect rational judgement, but to be quite blunt the railway doesn’t care; your son committed a criminal offence that the railway is fully entitled to prosecute. The guy reading the letter reads hundreds of these each day. Most contain a unique sob story and no matter how genuine and impactful it is unlikely such a story will improve their impression of your son.

I would remove the part about starting the BSc - not much upside and the downside is “if he’s so smart why did he fare evade”?

I would suggest somewhere in the letter to add something indicating you understand fare evasion is morally wrong (eg costs the taxpayer millions of £s/yr), which would help with the sincerity.

I do see your pov. What could we use as mitigation in our case beyond this, as these are our facts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2024 ==

Has he now bought a 16-25 Railcard? If so, say so.

He has bought it. Adding to the letter. Thank you.

 

[30907]

I do see your pov. What could we use as mitigation in our case beyond this, as these are our facts.

TBH I don't think there is any mitigation, but engaging with the train company as he is doing is pretty likely to lead to them agreeing to settle out of court, which is the desired outcome.

 

[worriedparent]

I do see your pov. What could we use as mitigation in our case beyond this, as these are our facts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2024 ==


He has bought it. Adding to the letter. Thank you.

Chiltern Railways have not been very transparent if they’ve found other discrepancies in his purchasing history. I’m unclear on how to address those?

 

[Fermiboson]

There is no need to incriminate yourself but take care to put down the truth and nothing but the truth in said letters. Don’t say “I have only done this once” but probably no need to say “I have done this on x occasions on xx, xx, and xx”. Write in a manner expecting they know everything you know, since they probably do.

Perhaps it may help to provide some more insight into the TOC’s decision making process. There is a cold hard logic to this. If the case goes to court, your son will pay more, yes, but only a small part of the fine will actually go to the TOC. The majority will go to the courts. If your son agrees to an out of court settlement, it is cheaper for your son (along with the associated benefits of not being criminally convicted) but all of the money goes to the TOC. The TOC will get more money out of this, and therefore they want an out of court settlement. As long as they are satisfied not convicting you will not embolden you to fare evade again, they will try to offer you an out of court settlement out of purely financial interests. Therefore, personal circumstances really don’t matter. TOCs have settled with unnamed executives over fare evasion claims going up to the tens of thousands of pounds, of which zero mitigating circumstances exist, because settling makes the TOCs more money. It is a bit unfair depending on your perspective but it is what it is.

As mentioned upthread Chiltern usually give settlement offers for the value of the Anytime single without discount for every journey without a valid ticket, without consideration of ticket costs already paid, plus 150 pounds + admin costs. It would be wise to calculate this amount and get it ready immediately, as once an offer is given you are expected to pay the full amount very quickly, typically within 2 weeks at most.

 

[worriedparent]

There is no need to incriminate yourself but take care to put down the truth and nothing but the truth in said letters. Don’t say “I have only done this once” but probably no need to say “I have done this on x occasions on xx, xx, and xx”. Write in a manner expecting they know everything you know, since they probably do.

Perhaps it may help to provide some more insight into the TOC’s decision making process. There is a cold hard logic to this. If the case goes to court, your son will pay more, yes, but only a small part of the fine will actually go to the TOC. The majority will go to the courts. If your son agrees to an out of court settlement, it is cheaper for your son (along with the associated benefits of not being criminally convicted) but all of the money goes to the TOC. The TOC will get more money out of this, and therefore they want an out of court settlement. As long as they are satisfied not convicting you will not embolden you to fare evade again, they will try to offer you an out of court settlement out of purely financial interests. Therefore, personal circumstances really don’t matter. TOCs have settled with unnamed executives over fare evasion claims going up to the tens of thousands of pounds, of which zero mitigating circumstances exist, because settling makes the TOCs more money. It is a bit unfair depending on your perspective but it is what it is.

As mentioned upthread Chiltern usually give settlement offers for the value of the Anytime single without discount for every journey without a valid ticket, without consideration of ticket costs already paid, plus 150 pounds + admin costs. It would be wise to calculate this amount and get it ready immediately, as once an offer is given you are expected to pay the full amount very quickly, typically within 2 weeks at most.

Thank you. I’m mustering the courage to mail them without using a solicitor. The inputs shared here are invaluable and I will write back to inform of the final outcome.
Thank you all

 

[Haywain]

other discrepancies in his purchasing history. I’m unclear on how to address those?

I think that is covered by this:

I continued to purchase tickets with the discount, mistakenly believing I was still eligible for that fare.

I don't think, in your case, there is any avoiding the facts or skirting round them, therefore I think this is the best approach.

 

[worriedparent]

I think that is covered by this:

I don't think, in your case, there is any avoiding the facts or skirting round them, therefore I think this is the best approach.

Very reassuring. Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2024 ==

Hi can someone kindly let me know if this letter is ok to send. I had two doubts- is it incriminating? It’ll help to know how best to navigate the incident.
Is it too long?

"
Dear Mr. Ismail,

I am emailing you today in response to a letter which I received from Chiltern Railways dated 11th October 2024. This was a Notice of Intended Prosecution and I received it on 14tg October 2024.
First of all I would like to express my sincere apologies for the incident that occurred on 31st July 2024. I accept responsibility and assure never to do it again. I have learnt to have a charged phone if I have bought an online ticket to show proof when asked or have a valid paper ticket if bought from the machine or counter at the station.
I also accept responsibility regarding the railcard, and appreciate the opportunity to give context surrounding the matter. In September of 2022 when I first started using Chiltern Railways to commute to school, my parents bought me my rail card (pic attached) up until then I was using the school bus. Immaturely I continued to use the railcard even after expiry as purchasing any ticket in the Trainline app allows you to apply the 16-17 saver even after it has expired. I was not aware of that at the time, which led me to believe that it was still active. It was an oversight on my part and I deeply regret it. I am committed to not making this error ever again. I’ve bought a new rail card (pic attached) and put a reminder on phone for its renewal. Please bear in mind that I was only 17 then, have just turned 18 in August of 2024.
I have learnt from this incident that having a valid ticket at the time of journey is entirely my responsibility and I am committed to ensuring this every time I travel.
I would be grateful if this matter can be settled without the need for court action and as rectification I am willing to pay for the outstanding fare and the administrative costs in dealing with the matter.
I sincerely hope you will consider my request sympathetically as I have only just turned 18 in August and any court action will severely damage my future career path. Please do not hesitate to contact me."

 

[WesternLancer]

Very reassuring. Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2024 ==

Hi can someone kindly let me know if this letter is ok to send. I had two doubts- is it incriminating? It’ll help to know how best to navigate the incident.
Is it too long?

"
Dear Mr. Ismail,

I am emailing you today in response to a letter which I received from Chiltern Railways dated 11th October 2024. This was a Notice of Intended Prosecution and I received it on 14tg October 2024.
First of all I would like to express my sincere apologies for the incident that occurred on 31st July 2024. I accept responsibility and assure never to do it again. I have learnt to have a charged phone if I have bought an online ticket to show proof when asked or have a valid paper ticket if bought from the machine or counter at the station.
I also accept responsibility regarding the railcard, and appreciate the opportunity to give context surrounding the matter. In September of 2022 when I first started using Chiltern Railways to commute to school, my parents bought me my rail card (pic attached) up until then I was using the school bus. Immaturely I continued to use the railcard even after expiry as purchasing any ticket in the Trainline app allows you to apply the 16-17 saver even after it has expired. I was not aware of that at the time, which led me to believe that it was still active. It was an oversight on my part and I deeply regret it. I am committed to not making this error ever again. I’ve bought a new rail card (pic attached) and put a reminder on phone for its renewal. Please bear in mind that I was only 17 then, have just turned 18 in August of 2024.
I have learnt from this incident that having a valid ticket at the time of journey is entirely my responsibility and I am committed to ensuring this every time I travel.
I would be grateful if this matter can be settled without the need for court action and as rectification I am willing to pay for the outstanding fare and the administrative costs in dealing with the matter.
I sincerely hope you will consider my request sympathetically as I have only just turned 18 in August and any court action will severely damage my future career path. Please do not hesitate to contact me."

I would be tempted to edit it down a bit to make it shorter, add para breaks etc. remember the person who reads this will have to deal with a lot of letters like this. There’s surplus words that could be removed without too much difficulty.

 

[worriedparent]

I would be tempted to edit it down a bit to make it shorter, add para breaks etc. remember the person who reads this will have to deal with a lot of letters like this. There’s surplus words that could be removed without too much difficulty.

I feel it’s a lot words too. Just afraid to leave out any details. Formatting is not a problem but is it incriminating? Like can the taking responsibility part be used against him?
Sorry it’s probably stupid to ask but never been in a situation like this before.

 

[WesternLancer]

I feel it’s a lot words too. Just afraid to leave out any details. Formatting is not a problem but is it incriminating? Like can the taking responsibility part be used against him?
Sorry it’s probably stupid to ask but never been in a situation like this before.

Worth waiting to see what others suggest. Your draft only recently appeared visible even tho it looks like you perhaps posted it earlier today. So others may not have seen it yet.

 

[Hadders]

I've made a few amendments to your letter to make it a bit shorter and make it a little bit easier to read. I would be very surprised if the outcome isn't an out of court settlement.

Dear Mr. Ismail,

I am emailing you today in response to a your letter which I received from Chiltern Railways dated 11th October 2024. This was a Notice of Intended Prosecution and I received it on 14tg October 2024.

First of all I would like to express my sincere apologies apologise for the incident that occurred on 31st July 2024. I accept responsibility for what happened and assure you that in future I will never to do it again make sure my phone is charged I have learnt to have a charged phone if I am using an e-ticket. have bought an online ticket to show proof when asked or have a valid paper ticket if bought from the machine or counter at the station.

I also accept responsibility regarding for the expired railcard, and appreciate the opportunity would like to give some context surrounding the matter. In September of 2022 when I first started using Chiltern Railways to commute to school, my parents bought me a 16-17 Saver Railcard rail card (pic attached). Before up until then I was using the school bus. Immaturely I continued to use the railcard even after expiry as purchasing any ticket in the Trainline app allows you to apply the 16-17 saver a Railcard discount even after it has expired. I was not aware of that this at the time, which led me to believe that it was still active the Railcard was still valid. It This was an oversight on my part and I deeply regret it and am committed to not making this error ever again. I’ve bought a new rail card 16-25 Railcard (pic attached) and put a reminder on phone for its renewal. Please bear in mind that I was only 17 then at the time of the incident and have just turned 18 in August of 2024.

I have learnt from this incident that having a valid ticket at the time of journey is entirely my responsibility and I am committed to ensuring this every time I travel.
I would be grateful wondered if this matter can be settled without the need for court action and as rectification I am willing to pay for the outstanding fare and the administrative costs in dealing with the matter.

I sincerely hope you will consider my request sympathetically as I have only just turned 18 in August and any court action will severely damage my future career path. Please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

 

[worriedparent]

I've made a few amendments to your letter to make it a bit shorter and make it a little bit easier to read. I would be very surprised if the outcome isn't an out of court settlement.

Dear Mr. Ismail,

I am emailing you today in response to a your letter which I received from Chiltern Railways dated 11th October 2024. This was a Notice of Intended Prosecution and I received it on 14tg October 2024.

First of all I would like to express my sincere apologies apologise for the incident that occurred on 31st July 2024. I accept responsibility for what happened and assure you that in future I will never to do it again make sure my phone is charged I have learnt to have a charged phone if I am using an e-ticket. have bought an online ticket to show proof when asked or have a valid paper ticket if bought from the machine or counter at the station.

I also accept responsibility regarding for the expired railcard, and appreciate the opportunity would like to give some context surrounding the matter. In September of 2022 when I first started using Chiltern Railways to commute to school, my parents bought me a 16-17 Saver Railcard rail card (pic attached). Before up until then I was using the school bus. Immaturely I continued to use the railcard even after expiry as purchasing any ticket in the Trainline app allows you to apply the 16-17 saver a Railcard discount even after it has expired. I was not aware of that this at the time, which led me to believe that it was still active the Railcard was still valid. It This was an oversight on my part and I deeply regret it and am committed to not making this error ever again. I’ve bought a new rail card 16-25 Railcard (pic attached) and put a reminder on phone for its renewal. Please bear in mind that I was only 17 then at the time of the incident and have just turned 18 in August of 2024.

I have learnt from this incident that having a valid ticket at the time of journey is entirely my responsibility and I am committed to ensuring this every time I travel.
I would be grateful wondered if this matter can be settled without the need for court action and as rectification I am willing to pay for the outstanding fare and the administrative costs in dealing with the matter.

I sincerely hope you will consider my request sympathetically as I have only just turned 18 in August and any court action will severely damage my future career path. Please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Thank you so much. I can definitely see the difference edits have made.

 

[worriedparent]

Hi everyone, today completes 30 days from the time we responded to the letter by Chiltern Railways. Their automated response email said that someone from the team will get in touch within 30 days and not to send follow up letters, as it increases their workload and response time.
Should we be sending a reminder now as 30 days are over? Date of the incident was July 31st and six month period ends on Jan 31st. Wondering if there’s at all an upside to sending another email?

 

[AlterEgo]

It isn't in your interests to remind them of the case. They have six months to bring it to court if they so wish and once that time elapses, that's the end of the matter.

If you get to the end of January and you haven't heard from them, good news - they cannot bring a prosecution and therefore have no threat of doing so to force a settlement.

 

[worriedparent]

It isn't in your interests to remind them of the case. They have six months to bring it to court if they so wish and once that time elapses, that's the end of the matter.

If you get to the end of January and you haven't heard from them, good news - they cannot bring a prosecution and therefore have no threat of doing so to force a settlement.

Thank you. We will just wait then.

 

[Hadders]

If you've got an automated reply then you know they've received it. I'd give it a bit longer as I suspect they are a small team that is extrenely busy.

 

[richa23]

Thank you. We will just wait then.

did you recieve any reply?

 

[Hadders]

did you recieve any reply?

In line with our forum rules please start a new thread if you require advice and forum members will be happy to assist.

We only ever discuss one case in each thread, this is because experience has taught us that every case is different however similar they might at first appear to be.