Arriva (Beds, Bucks, Herts)

[class387]

More decline to come apparently - 322 (Hemel to Watford) reduced to half hourly and 724 diverted around an estate in Maple Cross... All a bit depressing.

 

[LUYMun]

Just when the 724 couldn't be made any more miserable...

 

[espicer]

Just when the 724 couldn't be made any more miserable...

I’ve heard that the Pulsars are due to come off the 724 and stay on Harlow locals imminently, even more misery!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2025 ==

Also interestingly, 6449 is back home in Kent, it might be entering service in Gillingham,

Seems like 6449 will be entering service in Gillingham once it gets some work done. At least someone is giving it a second chance and spending money on it, I’m thinking that Luton probably didn’t because of the money spent on the new Evoras, but 6449 deserves to still be going!

 

[RELL6L]

More decline to come apparently - 322 (Hemel to Watford) reduced to half hourly and 724 diverted around an estate in Maple Cross... All a bit depressing.

Presumably the 724 reroute is in place of the 322 which goes to Maple Cross every hour at the moment and both remaining journeys each hour will go to Berry Lane Estate. Agreed it is all very depressing.

 

[northern506]

Press release quoted below. Sounds very much like Arriva wanted to retain the Leighton's buses contract.

I see the new Centrebus timetables for Leightons buses are available on bustimes.org.

Seems like a reduced service with a random timetable on most services. I’m sure users will be disappointed.

 

[espicer]

Also interestingly, 6449 is back home in Kent, it might be entering service in Gillingham,

The plan seems to have changed, it is now apparently being used as a paint float in Gillingham before being scrapped. Such a shame as that had plenty more life left in it!

 

[arrivamatt]

Disappointing that they don’t name the new operator - it always comes across a bit churlish. We’ve lost, someone else has won but you have to ask the council who!

The response from @Dwarfer1979 summarised this well - our priority throughout this process has been to support our customers by helping them plan for changes coming into effect from 1 June, which is why we took the step to communicate early. While we understand the interest in knowing who the new operator is, it’s important to clarify that it is not our contract to announce. There are several factors why this is the case, and it’s certainly not a matter of being unwilling or ungracious.

We’re aware that Centrebus has now confirmed its operation publicly, and we’ll be sharing details of our revised network proposition next week.

The 23 seems to be getting a variation there, so hopefully it will stop serving there as the L will provide a quicker route into Luton. I've always said the 23 should just run from Luton to Upper Sundon every half an hour!

Whilst the suggestion is appreciated, it’s important to balance ideas with actual demand. Upper Sundon has a population of around 1,000, and the current hourly service represents a significant improvement on the previous offer of just two journeys per day—providing a level of service more aligned with demand. The additional benefit has allowed us to deliver a frequency upgrade along the core section of route between Luton and Sundon Park, now every 30 minutes compared to the previous hourly offering.

The 23's patronage levels have more than doubled since installing structural changes in September last year, which reflects how the current route is serving customers well. We’re continuing to work closely with major employers in Linmere and Panattoni Park to ensure the service meets key shift patterns and connects to areas where many employees live, such as Leagrave and Biscot. We’ll be maintaining this successful routing, with an improved timetable in place, from 1 June.

Matching deregistrations would suggest the X2/3 are F70/77 renumbered. Though it looks like the airport will gain an extended Z and the new H to Thorn.

You're absolutely right that the X2 and X3 broadly replace the existing F70 and F77 services, though with some significant and exciting enhancements that we look forward to sharing in full shortly. They'll continue to offer a bus up to every 30 minutes combined between Milton Keynes, Leighton Buzzard, Luton and Luton Airport.

This change also completes the roll-out of our unified interurban "X" identity across Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire, making the network easier to understand and navigate. Luton will now be served by the X1, X2 and X3; Leighton Buzzard by the X2, X3 and X4; and Milton Keynes by the X1 through to X6 (albeit with the X5 ran by Stagecoach). We’re confident these changes will bring a clearer, more connected offer to customers across the region, as well as being a much tidier presentation of our offering for new and existing bus users.

Any timescales for enabling Ticketer ETM validation of PlusBus barcode tickets in Luton/Dunstable and elsewhere, @arrivamatt?

Not just yet — some long-overdue annual leave has taken precedence, and as I'm not close to the detail on this project at the moment, I'll find out in due course.

 

[espicer]

The 23's patronage levels have more than doubled since installing structural changes in September last year, which reflects how the current route is serving customers well. We’re continuing to work closely with major employers in Linmere and Panattoni Park to ensure the service meets key shift patterns and connects to areas where many employees live, such as Leagrave and Biscot. We’ll be maintaining this successful routing, with an improved timetable in place, from 1 June.

I'm glad, the route is vastly improved, especially with the frequency increase. Hopefully, there will be signs up at bus stops advising people of the timetable changes, especially in Sundon Park, where a lot of elderly people there who use the bus don't use the Internet, and will probably be confused when the timetable changes again, as they were when it last changed.

Looking forward to seeing these upcoming changes being announced shortly

 

[Zakaria Fadel]

Arriva are rumoured to operate the British Grand Prix Silverstone F1 Shuttles between MK and Silverstone 3-6 July.

 

[LUYMun]

Expect delays, cancellations and, as one friend puts it when sharing the above news, one of them should accidentally end up on the track itself.

 

[SheikhYerbooty]

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the 24/25/26 service is stopping at the end of this month. As a regular user of these services, is there any idea of what is replacing them if anything ? They are well used routes to 2 colleges, various supermarkets and an important link for the north Luton areas to the hospital.

 

[aron2smith]

The 133 has been "saved" - Central Connect are taking it on as the 333, but on a reduced frequency and operating hours. Locals aren't happy: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9ykd03d11o.amp

Central Connect and Stansted Airport have reportedly been talking and the airport has agreed to subsidise the journeys that can't be funded commercially via their Sustainable Transport Levy. So give or take 10 minutes, the timetable will now be the same as the soon to be former Arriva service. No cuts to the timetable at all, it remains a 7 day a week service. https://www.central-connect.co.uk/essex-rescheduled-take-off-for-service-333

Interestingly they will charge an extra £1 for a single for overnight journeys if the bus fare cap ends.

Just shows the way most buses are run now is no good for those of us who need them, they need to be funded even at the quiet times and they shouldn't be expected to be profitable necessarily as they bring much social and economic benefits. Deregulated services often fail on that front.

 

[espicer]

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the 24/25/26 service is stopping at the end of this month. As a regular user of these services, is there any idea of what is replacing them if anything ? They are well used routes to 2 colleges, various supermarkets and an important link for the north Luton areas to the hospital.

According to rumours I have seen online, the 24 will be renumbered to the 4 and run from Farley Hill to Dunstable via the 24 route. That's not confirmed, but I highly doubt the 24/25/26 will be withdrawn as it is such a well-used route. I just wish Arriva would announce the changes soon—they are in three weeks!

 

[Haywain]

According to rumours I have seen online, the 24 will be renumbered to the 4 and run from Farley Hill to Dunstable via the 24 route. That's not confirmed, but I highly doubt the 24/25/26 will be withdrawn as it is such a well-used route. I just wish Arriva would announce the changes soon—they are in three weeks!

Now on the Arriva website:

4/4A – Luton to Dunstable and Luton & Dunstable Hospital
We’re replacing routes 24, 25, and 26 with new routes 4 and 4A, making it even easier to get around.

We're excited to deliver new route 4 which will extend to Dunstable, running through Lewsey Farm, Woodside Industrial Estate, past White Lion Retail Park and Central Bedfordshire College directly into the town centre, up to every hour Monday to Saturday daytimes. This means that there's now a direct connection from Dunstable to Marsh Farm, Bramingham and Bushmead without changing buses, which many of our customers have been asking for.

Route 4 will serve Cromer Way (replacing existing route 26) and route 4A will serve Barnfield (replacing existing routes 24 and 25). Both routes then continue to Bramingham, Marsh Farm up to every 20 minutes combined.

Route 4A will continue hourly to Hockwell Ring and Luton & Dunstable Hospital, Monday to Sunday.

Additional journeys on route 4A will run during school days only, directly linking Luton, the Sixth Form and Barnfield Colleges. We'll continue to offer buses up to every ten minutes in the morning peak to offer plenty of capacity for students. Buses will no longer start at Sundon Park on schooldays due to change in customer demand - the nearest bus stops are on Hill Rise for routes 4/4A. Equally, due to a reduction in demand over time, buses will no longer serve Kestrel Way or Ravenhill Way on schooldays only - customers should catch route 4 at St Dominics Square or Leagrave High Street

Together, routes 4 and 4A will run up to every 20 minutes between Luton, Bushmead, Warden Hill, Bramingham and Marsh Farm.

 

[espicer]

Now on the Arriva website:

If I'm reading correctly and looking at the map, everywhere on the 24 will connect directly to Dunstable, apart from Sundon Park, as the 4a only runs to the hospital—no idea why they are making the 4 run down Bramingham Road and avoiding Sundon Park. I hope I'm reading this wrong, and there will be a connection from Sundon Park to Dunstable, hopefully, someone can clarify this ASAP.

 

[Haywain]

I'm disappointed to see that the X2 and X3 won't be using the High Street in Leighton Buzzard. This is a really inconvenient change that now rules out waiting in the Black Lion for the bus to arrive!

 

[SteveHFC]

If I'm reading correctly and looking at the map, everywhere on the 24 will connect directly to Dunstable, apart from Sundon Park, as the 4a only runs to the hospital—no idea why they are making the 4 run down Bramingham Road and avoiding Sundon Park. I hope I'm reading this wrong, and there will be a connection from Sundon Park to Dunstable, hopefully, someone can clarify this ASAP.

I've just seen the detail of the changes (https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/new-bus-routes-and-times-in-luton), it does look like the 4 is running down Bramingham Road straight to Leagrave station. I'm pleased about that, as there is currently no bus from Leagrave station to Lewsey Farm. It may only be hourly, but it is a link that has been missing all the time I've lived in this part of Luton (I'm aware the 24 used to run to Dunstable, but from memory it just ran along Leagrave High Street, and didn't serve St Dominic's Square. Only thing missing for me is a trip from Lewsey Farm to Leagrave station in the mornings for commuters into London - getting to Leagrave station between 07:15 and 07:30 maybe meaning they could be on the train sooner (and selfishly able to get a better seat) rather than having to go into Luton itself.

Looks like a good set of changes to me - creating some new links, particularly with the H and L, and earlier and later buses on the revised A/Z loop. It'll be interesting to see how it all goes - but credit to @arrivamatt and his colleagues for this.

I'm assuming this is down to the software that produces the timetables and the publicity - but it would be better that any times after 24:00 are 00:01 onwards rather than going on to 25:00, 26:00, 27:00. I may understand it coming from a transport scheduling background, but the general public may not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2025 ==

I'm disappointed to see that the X1 and X2 won't be using the High street in Leighton Buzzard. This is a really inconvenient change that now rules out waiting in the Black Lion for the bus to arrive!

Being pedantic - the X1 doesn't go to Leighton Buzzard - assume you meant the X2 & X3.

 

[arrivamatt]

If I'm reading correctly and looking at the map, everywhere on the 24 will connect directly to Dunstable, apart from Sundon Park, as the 4a only runs to the hospital—no idea why they are making the 4 run down Bramingham Road and avoiding Sundon Park. I hope I'm reading this wrong, and there will be a connection from Sundon Park to Dunstable, hopefully, someone can clarify this ASAP.

The 4 will not serve Sundon Park - customers who are travelling from Sundon Park can connect at Leagrave rail station. We feel that the current service provision for Sundon Park, which has had its frequency of buses doubled since last year, is now appropriate for the level of demand for buses in the area. I'm really proud to deliver route 4 - a lot of time has been spent understanding patterns of demand to ensure we've a solid commercial proposition - sending this via Sundon Park is neither necessary or direct, at this stage.

I'm disappointed to see that the X2 and X3 won't be using the High street in Leighton Buzzard. This is a really inconvenient change that now rules out waiting in the Black Lion for the bus to arrive!

We made several representations to Leighton Linslade Town Council at the point of formalising the High Street ETRO as a permanent change post-COVID. Of course, we'd prefer to be in the High Street on all days - but the sporadic nature of the closures provide inconsistencies for our customers, as well as impacting customers who do not travel within Leighton Buzzard to decipher a Tuesday variation to the timetable. Providing a stable offering is clearer to communicate.

I've just seen the detail of the changes (https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/new-bus-routes-and-times-in-luton), it does look like the 4 is running down Bramingham Road straight to Leagrave station. I'm pleased about that, as there is currently no bus from Leagrave station to Lewsey Farm. It may only be hourly, but it is a link that has been missing all the time I've lived in this part of Luton (I'm aware the 24 used to run to Dunstable, but from memory it just ran along Leagrave High Street, and didn't serve St Dominic's Square. Only thing missing for me is a trip from Lewsey Farm to Leagrave station in the mornings for commuters into London - getting to Leagrave station between 07:15 and 07:30 maybe meaning they could be on the train sooner (and selfishly able to get a better seat) rather than having to go into Luton itself.

Looks like a good set of changes to me - creating some new links, particularly with the H and L, and earlier and later buses on the revised A/Z loop. It'll be interesting to see how it all goes - but credit to @arrivamatt and his colleagues for this.

I'm assuming this is down to the software that produces the timetables and the publicity - but it would be better that any times after 24:00 are 00:01 onwards rather than going on to 25:00, 26:00, 27:00. I may understand it coming from a transport scheduling background, but the general public may not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2025 ==

Really grateful to read this @SteveHFC, appreciate your kind comments. Completely agree on the missing link and there'll be some work to do on optimising the timetable for emerging travel patterns as a result of this change; we've provided the best offering we can within our existing levels of resource but hope to grow this new corridor over the coming months and years.

I recall my time as a graduate trainee, being shown a 28-hour operational day on routes m1 and m2 from Poole to Bournemouth and beyond - it could even confuse the most seasoned scheduler! Will take this feedback on board, perhaps there's a better way we can present the overnight journeys; this'll certainly revert to being presented as 00:00 onwards from 1 June.

 

[SteveHFC]

Really grateful to read this @SteveHFC, appreciate your kind comments. Completely agree on the missing link and there'll be some work to do on optimising the timetable for emerging travel patterns as a result of this change; we've provided the best offering we can within our existing levels of resource but hope to grow this new corridor over the coming months and years.

I recall my time as a graduate trainee, being shown a 28-hour operational day on routes m1 and m2 from Poole to Bournemouth and beyond - it could even confuse the most seasoned scheduler! Will take this feedback on board, perhaps there's a better way we can present the overnight journeys; this'll certainly revert to being presented as 00:00 onwards from 1 June.

I can ask no more than the feedback is taken on board. I think Arriva have done a great job with the service enhancements over the past year or two, particularly with the new developments that are springing up - keep up the good work.

 

[MrCub]

Interesting changes to the 4 and 4A. Some odd times, though. In the morning there's unlikely to be enough capacity to get students to the Sixth Form for the start of their day [0830]. The 1525 is, I guess, a crowd buster for Sixth Form students but it goes ten minutes before the end of classes, and then there's quite a bit of a gap just gone 4pm when there's likely to be more of a need.

Will any of those be double deckers I wonder?

 

[espicer]

The 4 will not serve Sundon Park - customers who are travelling from Sundon Park can connect at Leagrave rail station. We feel that the current service provision for Sundon Park, which has had its frequency of buses doubled since last year, is now appropriate for the level of demand for buses in the area. I'm really proud to deliver route 4 - a lot of time has been spent understanding patterns of demand to ensure we've a solid commercial proposition - sending this via Sundon Park is neither necessary or direct, at this stage.

I understand that the 4 is unnecessary to serve Sundon Park due to it being routed via Bramingham Road, but is there any way that the 4A can be extended to Dunstable and not go as far as the hospital and stop there? It just seems frustrating for the residents of Sundon Park who don't get a connection to Dunstable, as every other area served by the 24 gets a direct connection. I take nothing away from your hard work, however, and I don't want to undo it. I am very glad that the route has been extended to Dunstable, and the other upcoming changes certainly look good. Also, you mentioned previously that the 23 will be getting a timetable change, but I didn't see any mention of it on the upcoming changes. Is that still happening?

 

[arrivamatt]

I understand that the 4 is unnecessary to serve Sundon Park due to it being routed via Bramingham Road, but is there any way that the 4A can be extended to Dunstable and not go as far as the hospital and stop there? It just seems frustrating for the residents of Sundon Park who don't get a connection to Dunstable, as every other area served by the 24 gets a direct connection. I take nothing away from your hard work, however, and I don't want to undo it. I am very glad that the route has been extended to Dunstable, and the other upcoming changes certainly look good. Also, you mentioned previously that the 23 will be getting a timetable change, but I didn't see any mention of it on the upcoming changes. Is that still happening?

Thanks @espicer, appreciate your kind comments.

I'd challenge that Dunstable is further to reach than L&D Hospital from Sundon Park; so any extension beyond this core destination isn't feasible within the existing resource which we're unable to justify at this stage. I did look at it, including a scenario where 4/4A interworked in Dunstable but it just didn't add up, with this option casting doubt on our ability to provide a comprehensive service where the bus is both punctual and on a consistent headway, particularly when the route isn't well-established.

Whilst Sundon Park forms a key cornerstone of our network, and accept you've a vested interest in the buses serving this area, it isn't a key interchange point and has the correct number of buses employed to meet customer demand to core destinations. To clarify, not all of the existing 24 will benefit from a direct connection to Dunstable (for example, Hockwell Ring and parts of Barnfield). The overall design strikes a balance between coverage and efficiency, ensuring the best use of our resources.

There will be more info on the 23 next week - we're just finalising some back-office elements on this.

 

[espicer]

Thanks @espicer, appreciate your kind comments.

I'd challenge that Dunstable is further to reach than L&D Hospital from Sundon Park; so any extension beyond this core destination isn't feasible within the existing resource which we're unable to justify at this stage. I did look at it, including a scenario where 4/4A interworked in Dunstable but it just didn't add up, with this option casting doubt on our ability to provide a comprehensive service where the bus is both punctual and on a consistent headway, particularly when the route isn't well-established.

Whilst Sundon Park forms a key cornerstone of our network, and accept you've a vested interest in the buses serving this area, it isn't a key interchange point and has the correct number of buses employed to meet customer demand to core destinations. To clarify, not all of the existing 24 will benefit from a direct connection to Dunstable (for example, Hockwell Ring and parts of Barnfield). The overall design strikes a balance between coverage and efficiency, ensuring the best use of our resources.

There will be more info on the 23 next week - we're just finalising some back-office elements on this.

Perfect, thank you for that. I'm glad you're on this forum so we can get reasonable and polite replies to our comments quickly. If you looked at that scenario and it didn't work, then fair enough. Thanks for clarifying about Hockwell Ring and Barnfield, I don't know why my brain registered just Sundon Park, I obviously didn't look correctly! Do you know roughly how long someone would have to wait if they were to go to Dunstable from Sundon Park via changing to the 4? If it isn't that long of a wait, then it shouldn't be a major issue for people, as I'm sure it is quicker than going into Luton and back out.

 

[Haywain]

Looks like a good set of changes to me - creating some new links, particularly with the H and L, and earlier and later buses on the revised A/Z loop. It'll be interesting to see how it all goes - but credit to @arrivamatt and his colleagues for this.

The A/Z loop is a sensible change to me, and I think is a return to how it was some years ago.

Being pedantic - the X1 doesn't go to Leighton Buzzard - assume you meant the X2 & X3.

Not pedantic, it was a silly mistake on my part!

 

[espicer]

The A/Z loop is a sensible change to me, and I think is a return to how it was some years ago.

Yeah, it is, it technically already is a loop at the minute, apart from the Z finishing at Luton Station as A's turn into Z's and vice versa at Dunstable ASDA. Hopefully it isn't as much of a failure as when Centrebus did a poor attempt some years back with the AZ and ZA!

 

[Haywain]

@arrivamatt Can I offer a slight criticism of the timetable for the new 4/4A? The idea that the times are every 20 minutes doesn't work for a hourly cycle. It would be better to say "at the same minutes past each ho
hour".

 

[arrivamatt]

Perfect, thank you for that. I'm glad you're on this forum so we can get reasonable and polite replies to our comments quickly. If you looked at that scenario and it didn't work, then fair enough. Thanks for clarifying about Hockwell Ring and Barnfield, I don't know why my brain registered just Sundon Park, I obviously didn't look correctly! Do you know roughly how long someone would have to wait if they were to go to Dunstable from Sundon Park via changing to the 4? If it isn't that long of a wait, then it shouldn't be a major issue for people, as I'm sure it is quicker than going into Luton and back out.

No worries at all; it's equally useful for us to receive immediate feedback, helping us clarify or better promote our offering to our wider customer base.

Catching a 23 towards Luton from Sundon Park at XX:58 will enable a connection for a Dunstable-bound 4 at YY:16 past each hour, with a 12 minute wait at Leagrave. Returning journeys from Dunstable arrive at YY:06 at Leagrave, to connect to a northbound 23 at XX:25.

The A/Z loop is a sensible change to me, and I think is a return to how it was some years ago.

Being able to communicate the through-connections on most journeys has always been a challenge. For the bulk of the day, routes A and Z interwork, allowing for seamless through-journeys beyond Dunstable - however, this isn't possible where we drop to an 11 minute frequency during peak times. The additional four buses we're employing on the new network helps build more resilience, with the new network offering clearly articulating connections around the L&D Hospital/Tithe Farm/Houghton Regis loop.

Can I offer a slight criticism of the timetable for the new 4/4A? The idea that the times are every 20 minutes doesn't work for a hourly cycle. It would be better to say "at the same minutes past each hour".

Think this is a very fair observation - I'll take a look at this and resolve, thanks for this.

 

[MrCub]

@arrivamatt I've checked and it indeed seems he times of the 4 and 4A aren't great for the sixth form college start and finish of day [and I accept that the bus isn't just for them]. Do let me know if you'd like some more details.

 

[arrivamatt]

I've checked and it indeed seems he times of the 4 and 4A aren't great for the sixth form college start and finish of day [and I accept that the bus isn't just for them]. Do let me know if you'd like some more details.

Thanks @MrCub - I visited Luton Sixth Form College last week and walked them through the new timetable, with no concerns raised. Will reach out to you with a DM to understand your observations further.

 

[Haywain]

Think this is a very fair observation - I'll take a look at this and resolve, thanks for this.

Another point I'd raise is that the files for the new services (like this) are well presented and show which stop (at the Interchange, for example) the service will depart from. This is something which is sadly lacking from the standard timetable and route information to be found on the website (such as this).