Virgin Trains loco-hauled substitutes

[Strathclyder]

What it says on the tin really.

This is a subject that has fascinated me for a long time and was kickstarted by pics of the extended hire-in of preserved Deltic D9000 to Virgin XC, most notably for use on Birmingham - Ramsgate services on summer weekends in 1998 & 1999. Have since found numerous outrageous/barmy substitutes from this era (double-headed 33s and at least two seperate solo 73s off the 3rd rail juice to name two) and I thought I'd make this thread to collect as many of them in one place as possible before it recedes any further into the mists of time. Plus any memories/experiences members may have of this fascinating period are more than welcome.

Over to the rest of you.

 

[jumble]

I was amused to be travelling by Deltic haulage on a London Travelcard from KennyO to Bromley
It was not that long before that BR had a total ban on preserved diesels never mind on service trains

 

[Harpo]

It was not that long before that BR had a total ban on preserved diesels never mind on service trains

Once privatised, there was really no such thing as ‘preserved’. As a certain person said some time ago, there’s no such thing as preservation with a working asset, just life extension.

 

[hexagon789]

What it says on the tin really.

This is a subject that has fascinated me for a long time and was kickstarted by pics of the extended hire-in of preserved Deltic D9000 to Virgin XC, most notably for use on Birmingham - Ramsgate services on summer weekends in 1998 & 1999. Have since found numerous outrageous/barmy substitutes from this era (double-headed 33s and at least two seperate solo 73s off the 3rd rail juice to name two) and I thought I'd make this thread to collect as many of them in one place as possible before it recedes any further into the mists of time. Plus any memories/experiences members may have of this fascinating period are more than welcome.

Over to the rest of you.

Shorty HST? 2+2 replacing a 158 for one.

You've mentioned most of the best known ones with 33, 73, 55.

Also various EWS locos, both classes Virgin themselves operated such as 47, 86 and 90 but also many of their more freight oriented types.

ScotRail 156s and 158s are known to have stood in on occasion between Glasgow/Edinburgh and Carlisle (slightly further I understand in the case of one 158 which I believe made it to Manchester).

 

[voyagerdude220]

Probably around a similar timespan you refer to Strathclyder, Virgin sometimes used random locomotives other than the usual 47s to drag mk2/mk3 carriages over the Settle and Carlisle whilst the diversions took place. There are a few videos of them on YouTube.

 

[Strathclyder]

You've mentioned most of the best known ones with 33, 73, 55.

The two 73s (specifically Mainline 73136 and InterCity 73141) both occurred in 1998, in March and August respectively. As if 136 didn't have enough work to do on it's run, the dead 47/8 was left on the train and thus 136 had to drag the whole lot all the way from Kensington Olympia to Reading. A comment on the 1st attached photo mentions that it was at least 2 hours down upon arriving at Reading. Rather good going all things considered!

73136 'KENT YOUTH MUSIC' & 47805 READING 17/3/1998

Pictured at Reading Station on the evening of 17th March 1998 was Mainline freight liveried 73136 'Kent Youth Music'. It had just arrived after having rescued 47805 which had failed on a cross country train.

www.flickr.com

73141 Reading 060898 (1M50)

EWS 73141 is seen shortly after arriving at Reading on 06/08/98 with 1M50, the 1415 Virgin Trains service from Brighton to Preston, which was formed of 7 coaches & was worked by the "ED", due to the failure of 47822 on the inward working at Brighton. A warm & very slow run was had from...

www.flickr.com

Also various EWS locos, both classes Virgin themselves operated such as 47, 86 and 90 but also many of their more freight oriented types.

Virtually every ex-BR mainline diesel loco type EWS inherited appeared: 31s, 33s, 37s, 47s, 56s, 58s, 60s and the aforementioned 73s.

One of the more noteworthy subs occurred when Mainline 37023 and InterCity 31420 joined forces to work to/from Reading (northbound working was 1M79 16:47 from Reading to Liverpool) on 18th July 1997. The 31 was tucked inside both ways to supply the coaches, so time was no doubt found to turn them on the Reading triangle. Flickr's Chris Morrison got this stoater of a shot of them at King's Sutton headed north.

37023 and 31420 pass Kings Sutton on 18 July 1997.

A wave from the driver of Mainline liveried 37023, with Intercity liveried 31420, heading 1M79 1647 Reading - Liverpool past Kings Sutton on 18 July 1997. Thanks to the brilliant class37. co. uk for the details after 23 years!

www.flickr.com

 

[hexagon789]

The two 73s (specifically Mainline 73136 and InterCity 73141) both occurred in 1998, in March and August respectively. As if 136 didn't have enough work to do on it's run, the dead 47/8 was left on the train and thus 136 had to drag the whole lot all the way from Kensington Olympia to Reading. A comment on the 1st attached photo mentions that it was at least 2 hours down upon arriving at Reading. Rather good going all things considered!

73136 'KENT YOUTH MUSIC' & 47805 READING 17/3/1998

Pictured at Reading Station on the evening of 17th March 1998 was Mainline freight liveried 73136 'Kent Youth Music'. It had just arrived after having rescued 47805 which had failed on a cross country train.

www.flickr.com

73141 Reading 060898 (1M50)

EWS 73141 is seen shortly after arriving at Reading on 06/08/98 with 1M50, the 1415 Virgin Trains service from Brighton to Preston, which was formed of 7 coaches & was worked by the "ED", due to the failure of 47822 on the inward working at Brighton. A warm & very slow run was had from...

www.flickr.com

Virtually every ex-BR mainline diesel loco type EWS inherited appeared: 31s, 33s, 37s, 47s, 56s, 58s, 60s and the aforementioned 73s.

One of the more noteworthy subs occurred when Mainline 37023 and InterCity 31420 joined forces to work to/from Reading (northbound working was 1M79 16:47 from Reading to Liverpool) on 18th July 1997. The 31 was tucked inside both ways to supply the coaches, so time was no doubt found to turn them on the Reading triangle. Flickr's Chris Morrison got this stoater of a shot of them at King's Sutton headed north.

37023 and 31420 pass Kings Sutton on 18 July 1997.

A wave from the driver of Mainline liveried 37023, with Intercity liveried 31420, heading 1M79 1647 Reading - Liverpool past Kings Sutton on 18 July 1997. Thanks to the brilliant class37. co. uk for the details after 23 years!

www.flickr.com

31 for ETH no doubt! The 37 was probably contributing most of the pulling power!

 

[Iskra]

Class 50’s did also operate, I saw a picture of TNT Class 50’s at Banbury on Virgin Mk2’s recently and I haven’t seen mention of 50’s yet.

 

[Strathclyder]

Class 50’s did also operate, I saw a picture of TNT Class 50’s at Banbury on Virgin Mk2’s recently and I haven’t seen mention of 50’s yet.

I've never seen mention of Class 50s subbing on Virgin services during this period, but I'm intrigued all the same. Did the photo have a date attached/mentioned anywhere?

 

[Iskra]

I've never seen mention of Class 50s subbing on Virgin services during this period, but I'm intrigued all the same. Did the photo have a date attached/mentioned anywhere?

Photo Courtesy of Tom Mcatee

Photo shows a rake of Virgin Coaches with top and tail 50’s at Banbury.

I suppose it could be some sort of railtour?

 

[hexagon789]

View attachment 179550

Photo Courtesy of Tom Mcatee

Photo shows a rake of Virgin Coaches with top and tail 50’s at Banbury.

I suppose it could be some sort of railtour?

Lack of Virgin branding on the coaches does suggest a railtour.

I'll see if I can find out the details.

Do you recall where you found the photo?

I know Tom McAtee has a Flickr profile, but I don't think he posts everything there.

 

[Iskra]

Lack of Virgin branding on the coaches does suggest a railtour.

I'll see if I can find out the details.

Do you recall where you found the photo?

I know Tom McAtee has a Flickr profile, but I don't think he posts everything there.

Probably X/Twitter

 

[hexagon789]

Probably X/Twitter

I'll have a butcher's, cheers

 

[Strathclyder]

Lack of Virgin branding on the coaches does suggest a railtour.

I'll see if I can find out the details.

Do you recall where you found the photo?

I know Tom McAtee has a Flickr profile, but I don't think he posts everything there.

Probably X/Twitter

Either a railtour or a rugby/football special of some description (I know 50s have occasionally worked on the latter over the past 25 or so years), the lack of branding on the coaches certainly points to that being the case.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

What it says on the tin really.

This is a subject that has fascinated me for a long time and was kickstarted by pics of the extended hire-in of preserved Deltic D9000 to Virgin XC, most notably for use on Birmingham - Ramsgate services on summer weekends in 1998 & 1999. Have since found numerous outrageous/barmy substitutes from this era (double-headed 33s and at least two seperate solo 73s off the 3rd rail juice to name two) and I thought I'd make this thread to collect as many of them in one place as possible before it recedes any further into the mists of time. Plus any memories/experiences members may have of this fascinating period are more than welcome.

Over to the rest of you.

The Deltic didn't only work the Ramsgate, it also had some outings to Plymouth and famously some weekend diversionary work over the Settle & Carlisle!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 May 2025 ==

The two 73s (specifically Mainline 73136 and InterCity 73141) both occurred in 1998, in March and August respectively. As if 136 didn't have enough work to do on it's run, the dead 47/8 was left on the train and thus 136 had to drag the whole lot all the way from Kensington Olympia to Reading. A comment on the 1st attached photo mentions that it was at least 2 hours down upon arriving at Reading. Rather good going all things considered!

An acquaintance of mine was Reading announcer on the day 73136 appeared and their recollection is that every time 1M50’s progress was checked a further 20-30 mins delay was added to the customer screens and annoucement.

 

[matt]

View attachment 179550

Photo Courtesy of Tom Mcatee

Photo shows a rake of Virgin Coaches with top and tail 50’s at Banbury.

I suppose it could be some sort of railtour?

That looks more like Hereford so would have been in connection with football or Rugby at Cardiff and would have been Arriva Trains Wales services. The coaches at the time will likely have been owned by Riviera Trains.

 

[Iskra]

That looks more like Hereford so would have been in connection with football or Rugby at Cardiff and would have been Arriva Trains Wales services. The coaches at the time will likely have been owned by Riviera Trains.

Nice work! (The original tweet did say Banbury I believe, hence the confusion)

 

[Halwynd]

The Deltic didn't only work the Ramsgate, it also had some outings to Plymouth and famously some weekend diversionary work over the Settle & Carlisle!

I can remember the Deltic working the 13:15 SuO Preston - Plymouth for around four consecutive weeks. Also a Birmingham - Newcastle at some point. Casting your mind back to 1981 and the intervening years, it was surreal to see a Deltic working a service train again.

Virgin offered a Virgin Trains Day Rover in conjunction with RAIL magazine during 1999 - I think you had a collect a couple of tokens. Can't recall how much it was, possibly £20? - but it was a bargain. One Saturday in 1999 I took advantage, in a roundabout way, to get the Deltic which was booked to work the 17:26 Edinburgh - Birmingham over the S&C. 47709 hauled the train from Edinburgh to Carlisle and gave an impressive performance with sustained 95-100mph running south of Carstairs and 105mph though Lockerbie.

47814 Totnes Castle	1O30 06:05 Preston - Brighton	Preston - Manchester Piccadilly
86242 James Kennedy GC	1G80 07:47 Manchester - Birmingham International	Manchester Piccadilly - Stafford
86236 Josiah Wedgwood	1G10 08:11 Liverpool - Birmingham International	Stafford - Birmingham New Street
43069 & 43157 HMS Penzance	1S85 07:20 Plymouth - Aberdeen The Devon Scot	Birmingham New Street - Edinburgh	Normally running WCML, diverted via Sheffield & ECML. Ran non-stop, calling only at Newcastle to change driver.
47709	1M35 17:26 Edinburgh - Birmingham	Edinburgh - Carlisle
55022 Royal Scots Grey	1M35 17:26 Edinburgh - Birmingham	Carlisle - Preston	via Settle

 

[The exile]

As well as the Deltic, whichever 37 was Saint Margaret had a day out to Ramsgate.

 

[Strathclyder]

The Deltic didn't only work the Ramsgate, it also had some outings to Plymouth and famously some weekend diversionary work over the Settle & Carlisle!

Yeah I'm aware of it being used extensively on other services, that's why I said 'most notably for use on Birmingham - Ramsgate' as that service is the one that seems to be mentioned most often when referring back to this period in D9000's life.

 

[43096]

1M79 1647 Reading - Liverpool (and the associated inbound working) were often a good bet for a hire-in. 31466 did the honours on 03/12/1997.

 

[Peeled Apples]

I can remember the Deltic working the 13:15 SuO Preston - Plymouth for around four consecutive weeks. Also a Birmingham - Newcastle at some point. Casting your mind back to 1981 and the intervening years, it was surreal to see a Deltic working a service train again.

Virgin offered a Virgin Trains Day Rover in conjunction with RAIL magazine during 1999 - I think you had a collect a couple of tokens. Can't recall how much it was, possibly £20? - but it was a bargain. One Saturday in 1999 I took advantage, in a roundabout way, to get the Deltic which was booked to work the 17:26 Edinburgh - Birmingham over the S&C. 47709 hauled the train from Edinburgh to Carlisle and gave an impressive performance with sustained 95-100mph running south of Carstairs and 105mph though Lockerbie.

47814 Totnes Castle	1O30 06:05 Preston - Brighton	Preston - Manchester Piccadilly
86242 James Kennedy GC	1G80 07:47 Manchester - Birmingham International	Manchester Piccadilly - Stafford
86236 Josiah Wedgwood	1G10 08:11 Liverpool - Birmingham International	Stafford - Birmingham New Street
43069 & 43157 HMS Penzance	1S85 07:20 Plymouth - Aberdeen The Devon Scot	Birmingham New Street - Edinburgh	Normally running WCML, diverted via Sheffield & ECML. Ran non-stop, calling only at Newcastle to change driver.
47709	1M35 17:26 Edinburgh - Birmingham	Edinburgh - Carlisle
55022 Royal Scots Grey	1M35 17:26 Edinburgh - Birmingham	Carlisle - Preston	via Settle

I had one those virgin rovers, I can’t remember how it worked other than it was definitely a bargain.

 

[Strathclyder]

An acquaintance of mine was Reading announcer on the day 73136 appeared and their recollection is that every time 1M50’s progress was checked a further 20-30 mins delay was added to the customer screens and annoucement.

Sounds about right. Wee thing did well all things considered!

 

[yorksrob]

Looking back, I wish I'd caught that Deltic in Kent !

 

[Strathclyder]

This is perhaps my pick of all the hire-ins: 56019 working, in order, from Preston to Birmingham on 1V50 (47033 took over the train there), then 1O38/1M81 to/from Bournemouth on 20th June 1998. This was the last surviving operational Grid in Railfreight Red Stripe by then iirc (all linked photos copyright of their respective owners)

KT 243-03 RAILFREIGHT GRID 56019 1V50 FACTORY LANE 20/06/98.

RAILFREIGHT RED SOLE BAR GRID 56019 ACCELERATES AWAY FROM PRESTON OVER FACTORY LANE BRIDGE VICE FAILED 47814 WORKING 1V50 0840 GLASGOW-PAIGNTON XC SERVICE ON 20/06/98. ON ARRIVAL AT BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET THE GRID WAS REMOVED IN FAVOUR OF 47033 , AND 56019 WAS THEN USED TO WORK 1O38 AND RETURN...

www.flickr.com

56019 blasts out of Reading station as a class 47 loco replacement on a Virgin Train service to Bournemouth on 20-6-98. Copyright Ian Cuthbertson

Explore I C railway photo's' 7607 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

56019 Winchester 1O38 (SR13 099PF)

The infamous 1O38, 09.10 Off of Edinburgh to Bournemouth didn't fail to surprise, especially today with 566019 at the helm on Saturday 20th June 1998 see approaching Winchester.

www.flickr.com

56019 Eastleigh 1M81 (SR14 006PF)

Having made it to Bournemouth on osar 38, the return working of red stripe railfreight 56019 was the 1M81, 18.14 Bournemouth to Birmingham New Street. The grid screams up past Eastleigh on 20th June 1998

www.flickr.com

To those who know me, this shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[86247]

I remember that was on a bus coming in from Stockport as it went over the road staring in disbelief and thinking well can't say what I was thinking but it was a lot of 4 letter words.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

Slightly later than most occurrences on this thread, but I recall seeing a First Great Western 47 and air-con mk2s (also from FGW) working on-hire to Virgin Cross Country through Leeds c.2004. I know it was heading towards York but time and age have erased all other details!!

 

[Harvester]

Slightly later than most occurrences on this thread, but I recall seeing a First Great Western 47 and air-con mk2s (also from FGW) working on-hire to Virgin Cross Country through Leeds c.2004. I know it was heading towards York but time and age have erased all other details!!

Saw a pair of 47s (47805 & 47854) in August 2002 at Sheffield, top and tailing a Virgin rake substitute for a HST, on a Plymouth-Edinburgh working. By that time Virgin XC loco hauled workings had ceased, and I was travelling on a very new Voyager.

 

[Magdalia]

Saw a pair of 47s (47805 & 47854) in August 2002 at Sheffield, top and tailing a Virgin rake substitute for a HST, on a Plymouth-Edinburgh working. By that time Virgin XC loco hauled workings had ceased, and I was travelling on a very new Voyager.

Virgin XC still had some loco hauled trains in summer 2002. That was the last time that I did an all line rover and it included Virgin XC loco hauled from Penzance.

 

[nw1]

Yeah I'm aware of it being used extensively on other services, that's why I said 'most notably for use on Birmingham - Ramsgate' as that service is the one that seems to be mentioned most often when referring back to this period in D9000's life.

It even did Poole-Liverpool (part of) on one Saturday in November 1998 towards the end of the month, probably the 28th. I remember getting up early one morning to get haulage from Southampton Central-Airport Parkway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2025 ==

Virgin XC still had some loco hauled trains in summer 2002. That was the last time that I did an all line rover and it included Virgin XC loco hauled from Penzance.

I've lost track of when I last saw, or used, an XC loco-hauled train. The last occasion I specifically remember was Sunday 4 Nov 2001 when I was waiting at Beaulieu Road and recall orange sparks emitting from the vent of the 47 operating the 1720(ish) ex-Bournemouth. I remember being sufficiently concerned to call the on-platform "help" but the operator didn't seem overly bothered, so presumably it was something that just happens from time to time. (I did so as I've never seen sparks coming out of a diesel loco before!)