Sorry let me clarify, he turned 26 in December 2023, he 100% had a 16-25 railcard but is unsure if he had a 26+ railcard. They have then asked to prove if he had a railcard from December 2023 and an original jobseeker one which he also 100% had, so at present they are asking for railcards to cover periods where he did have them?
They can’t possibly have sent letters for court action while also going down a seperate route of fraud and trying to get more money that way, it seems to me they are aware they missed the deadline so to try and recoup costs have now brought up another issues which is wholly separate to the original ?
It's worth thinking about how realistic this threat is. In brief, I don't think it's very likely.
Thanks, this is the issue, he knows he had the railcard but he obvs hasn’t keep it for the past 6 years he can prove he was claiming benefits and henceforth would have been eligible for it but again if he can’t prove that, Chiltern will continue down the fraud route or give a fine for perfectly valid tickets, in terms of them being used I imagine the tickets were used but then it depends on weather they were ever scanned either at barriers or by a ticket inspector as most the time barriers are now open for them to argue they were 100% used, would it be reasonable to ask for the list of these supposed journey which I feel they should have sent initially, and ask if they can provide proof they were used as well?
I think your previous letter is an entirely sensible way forward, and it will be over to Chiltern to show their data and make an assessment. The "fraud" threat isn't realistic, civil recovery is realistic, but that't not the point of the threat - it's to get you to engage in the process and Chiltern to recover losses, if any. It's not reasonable, nor a requirement, to dig out paperwork from 5 years ago. Chiltern can ask whether a railcard was held, but you can just give an honest reply. The "balance of probabilities" used in civil recovery goes to both sides.
Yeh I think I’ll ask for the list first while we are getting the proof but again these were from years ago it’s very possible there are no record of it anymore but it’s then down to them to prove he didn’t have one
It’s down to them to show that on a balance of probabilities he didn’t have one, rather than really “prove” it. But they can offer no evidence to counter his assertion, so I think a court would decide, on balance, he didn’t hold one and doesn’t owe any money.
This was very dubious; none of that thread passed the smell test.
The usual first question for things like this:
Yes back in November, I then received the notice of intended prosecution on march to which I replied, they only replied a couple days ago asking for proof of railcards which I now no longer have they said they can do me for fraud but I just find it suspicious they said this only once the 6 month limit passed for the original “fare evasion”, they have since sent a list of journeys for me to comment on. Ironically the original incident I was stopped for the inspector claimed I bought the ticket after I got off the train but the records they just sent over said I bought it 10 mins before the train even departed the station. I just think it seems they are fishing for me to admit to things I didn’t do so they can gain more money in hopes the threat of court would make me just go along with it, but also yeh I don’t want to end up in court, I have said to most of them I’m happy to pay as can’t provide the railcard anyway but some of these journeys have been highlighted saying we don’t belive that’s were u started/stoped and can I say where the actual stops are but again they are the correct ones?
Stopped November 2nd, one of them was issued by the job Center back in 2020, I called them and they don’t keep records for back then, I called universal credit who confirmed the dates I was claiming. It’s annoying I will now more the Lilly be paying for all them journeys when I know for a fact i had one but it’s now impossible to prove
I think it's unreasonable to expect people to keep records of railcards going back five years. The Job Centre Plus Railcards is a well known way to evade paying fares but if you genuinely had one in 2020 then showing that you were claiming Universal Credit at the time the journeys were made might be sufficient if accompanied by a well worded letter.
Hi I have shown proof of the universal credit claim, but then on the email they replied with was worded as if they knew I had a job Center plus card they said it seems likes it’s been applied past its expiry date, Meaning they knew i had one but are also still more then likely gonna charge me for those journeys anyway. They have also asked me to comment on about 4 refunds again from about 4 years ago, but how is anyone supposed to remember what journeys they did or did not take then. I would have asked for a refund due to me not being able to travel but how am i supposed to now prove it
This is tantamount to an admission.
