Email from digital fraud wm trains

[gis1]

I received this email today. I use the Trainline app, and was not stopped at a barrier.

"We have recently noticed some activity on your account that has raised concerns regarding potential misuse of your railcard.



Upon review, it appears that your transactions may not be in compliance with the terms and conditions of your railcard.



Please be advised that any form of railcard misuse is a serious matter and may result in further action if not addressed promptly. We encourage you to contact us immediately to resolve the matter.



West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.



We appreciate your prompt attention to this matter and look forward to your response."

I replied saying 'Thank you for sending me across this inquiry.
How can I help to get this matter resolved?'

I have not heard back yet. Any advise?

 

[drueberflug]

You seem to not be the only Trainline user today to have received such an email.

While e-mails usually only take a few seconds to be sent, they won't be processed that quickly.
You may want to wait a few business days until they respond.
Also, most cases of users receving this email seem to have commited some type of railcard fraud, and regarding that, depending on the situation, you may only want to disclose as little as legally possible if asked to not incriminate yourself.

However, this is not legal advice and UK train operators are known for going to court pretty quickly in comparison to other parts of the world.

 

[Haywain]

Any advise?

If you had come here before replying, our advice would be not to reply, but having done so you will probably receive a request for a payment in the near future. Whether you then ignore that is up to you. I guess you know what they are referring to that you have been doing, so the immediate action would be to stop doing it. And you would be well advised to find an alternative train ticket retailer.

 

[womble10]

It would be helpful to know whether you have been misusing your railcard.

 

[trainingday]

It would be helpful to know whether you have been misusing your railcard.

If you had come here before replying, our advice would be not to reply, but having done so you will probably receive a request for a payment in the near future. Whether you then ignore that is up to you. I guess you know what they are referring to that you have been doing, so the immediate action would be to stop doing it. And you would be well advised to find an alternative train ticket retailer.

I have had the same email there must be a flurry with WMT and Trainline so best to ignore ?

 

[womble10]

I have had the same email there must be a flurry with WMT and Trainline so best to ignore ?

If you are concerned about a similar email you should open a new thread with the specifics of your case.

That said, it is very rarely a good idea to ignore correspondence. You might, however, be advised not to respond. You should certainly avoid misusing a railcard after receiving an email such as the above.

 

[Alpine Rider]

I wonder if this is yet another variant of the great "unpaid toll" scam which has been very popular among scammers around the planet.

If or increasingly whenever scammers can hack into a relevant database (trainline)it allows them to send carefully tailored bogus threatening emails to people on the database - and inevitably a few people are scared into responding.

Then if people respond the scammers send a demand for money - and if you then pay by card - then guess what - your account gets drained....

I know this advice is with hindsight - but unless you know you have been abusing your railcard you probably should have not responded.

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if this is yet another variant of the great "unpaid toll" scam which has been very popular among scammers around the planet.

No, it isn't. It's an established pattern of behaviour by West Midlands Trains using data supplied by Trainline.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder if this is yet another variant of the great "unpaid toll" scam which has been very popular among scammers around the planet.

No, it is not. This is standard behaviour from these companies.

 

[gis1]

Thank you for all you help so far.

They have replied with this

""Thank you for your response, we are contacting you regarding concerns related to your railcard usage. Our records indicate that you have been applying a 16-17 Railcard discount for over two years back dating to August 2022, with continued use of the 16-17 discount up to March.



Please note that it is not possible to hold a 16-17 Railcard for this duration, as the maximum validity period is two years. Any transactions applying this discount beyond the eligible period would therefore not qualify for the discounted rate.



We are willing to work with you to settle the matter out of court, but we require your full cooperation. Please provide all relevant evidence regarding your railcard usage. Once we have reviewed this information, we will determine the appropriate next steps.



Please respond within 7 days from the date of this letter to avoid further escalation.""

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Apr 2025 ==

If you had come here before replying, our advice would be not to reply, but having done so you will probably receive a request for a payment in the near future. Whether you then ignore that is up to you. I guess you know what they are referring to that you have been doing, so the immediate action would be to stop doing it. And you would be well advised to find an alternative train ticket retailer.

Thank you for all you help so far.

They have replied with this

""Thank you for your response, we are contacting you regarding concerns related to your railcard usage. Our records indicate that you have been applying a 16-17 Railcard discount for over two years back dating to August 2022, with continued use of the 16-17 discount up to March.



Please note that it is not possible to hold a 16-17 Railcard for this duration, as the maximum validity period is two years. Any transactions applying this discount beyond the eligible period would therefore not qualify for the discounted rate.



We are willing to work with you to settle the matter out of court, but we require your full cooperation. Please provide all relevant evidence regarding your railcard usage. Once we have reviewed this information, we will determine the appropriate next steps.



Please respond within 7 days from the date of this letter to avoid further escalation.""

 

[AlterEgo]

Stop replying to them.

 

[gis1]

Stop replying to them.

They have said they will escalate in 7 days. I am happy to settle. I do not want to go to court

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Apr 2025 ==

It would be helpful to know whether you have been misusing your railcard

Hi thank you for replying. I do not have a Railcard.

I am going to reply with this? Is this okay?


'"I offer my sincere apologies for any misuse that occurred. I am committed to resolving this issue without resorting to court proceedings and will pay all outstanding fares as well as any administrative costs incurred. To ensure this does not happen again, I will be purchasing a Swift card for future use.'''

 

[gis1]

Hi, I received an email from wmfraud

Thank you for your response, we are contacting you regarding concerns related to your railcard usage. Our records indicate that you have been applying a 16-17 Railcard discount for over two years back dating to August 2022, with continued use of the 16-17 discount up to this year.



Please note that it is not possible to hold a 16-17 Railcard for this duration, as the maximum validity period is two years. Any transactions applying this discount beyond the eligible period would therefore not qualify for the discounted rate.



We are willing to work with you to settle the matter out of court, but we require your full cooperation. Please provide all relevant evidence regarding your railcard usage. Once we have reviewed this information, we will determine the appropriate next steps.



Please respond within 7 days from the date of this letter to avoid further escalation.""

I do not have a Railcard. I am panicking about the court situation and want to settle asap.

I am going to reply with this: "I offer my sincere apologies for any misuse that occurred. I am committed to resolving this issue without resorting to court proceedings and will pay all outstanding fares as well as any administrative costs incurred. To ensure this does not happen again, I will be purchasing a Swift card for future use."

Is this okay? Any help would be appreciated

 

[AlterEgo]

They have said they will escalate in 7 days. I am happy to settle. I do not want to go to court

If they haven’t stopped you while travelling then they won’t be taking you to court. They have no evidence of any offences at all. To be clear, they have to prove you travelled with the tickets which is impossible to do unless they either catch you or you admit it.

Don’t reply unless you’d like to voluntarily shell out hundreds of pounds and admit to criminal offences you don’t need to. You’ve already made one mistake by replying without rebutting the allegations, so stop corresponding.

 

[gis1]

If they haven’t stopped you while travelling then they won’t be taking you to court. They have no evidence of any offences at all. To be clear, they have to prove you travelled with the tickets which is impossible to do unless they either catch you or you admit it.

Don’t reply unless you’d like to voluntarily shell out hundreds of pounds and admit to criminal offences you don’t need to. You’ve already made one mistake by replying without rebutting the allegations, so stop corresponding.

Hi thank you so much for replying. I understand they do not have evidence I travelled with the tickets. However they know I purchased tickets and do not have/ have never had a railcard. I am concerned what will happen in 7 days if I do not reply

 

[Cuthbert]

Hi thank you so much for replying. I understand they do not have evidence I travelled with the tickets. However they know I purchased tickets and do not have/ have never had a railcard. I am concerned what will happen in 7 days if I do not reply

It is not illegal to purchase tickets without a railcard.
It's just not allowed to travel with them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi thank you so much for replying. I understand they do not have evidence I travelled with the tickets. However they know I purchased tickets and do not have/ have never had a railcard.

So? As @Knoodlepot explains it's not an offence to buy a ticket.

I buy 16-25, Senior and 26-30 tickets all the time and I don't have any of those railcards; I buy them for other people.

I am concerned what will happen in 7 days if I do not reply

Nothing. There is no evidence of any offending. They're hoping you're naive enough to be spooked by the email.

 

[minderbinder]

In this case, the OP admits to fraudulently buying Railcard-discounted tickets which they were not entitled to, and OP intends to settle with the railway company for the sums owed. Personally, I think this is the ethically correct response.

 

[gis1]

So? As @Knoodlepot explains it's not an offence to buy a ticket.

I buy 16-25, Senior and 26-30 tickets all the time and I don't have any of those railcards; I buy them for other people.


Nothing. There is no evidence of any offending. They're hoping you're naive enough to be spooked by the email.

Okay thank you again for your help. I will take your advice. And they won't email again if I don't reply?

 

[Haywain]

Personally, I think this is the ethically correct response.

What is ethically or morally correct is an individual's choice, but we are asked for advice and the appropriate advice is not to incriminate oneself which is what sending a response does.

 

[AlterEgo]

Okay thank you again for your help. I will take your advice. And they won't email again if I don't reply?

They will probably email again but you shouldn't concern yourself with their increasingly desperate tone. They do this all the time, feel free to browse the forum for examples of these cases.

 

[Hadders]

However, this is not legal advice and UK train operators are known for going to court pretty quickly in comparison to other parts of the world.

Actually train operating companies usually settle cases out of court as long as people co-operate with them and haven't come to their attention before. While there are many prosecutions this normally happens because people don't enagage, bury their head in the sand and hope the matter will go away.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Apr 2025 ==

Okay thank you again for your help. I will take your advice. And they won't email again if I don't reply?

Just to summarise, you've basically got two options here:

1. Co-operate with them, WMT will offer you an out of court settlement which will be the cost of the invalid tickets purchased plus an admin fee, typicaly around £175. Pay and that will be the end of the matter.

2. Do nothing. Purchasing tickets is not illegal, using them. It is highly unlikely that WMT has any evidence that you used the tickets, although we cannot be 100% certain of that. If you take this course of action you will continue to receive threatening letters from WMT threatening police involvement and prosecution for fraud for the forseeable future. A complication is you have already contacted WMT and potentially incriminated yourself, if you want to take this option it would be better if you'd not engaged at all with them.

 

[embers25]

Am I missing something obvious here as, am I not correct that nothing stops me using my account to buy tickets for my whole family to avail of the 10% LNER discount for example and then in theory I would have tickets on my accounts with multiple different types of railcards and, if I had 2 children, I could easily have 16-17 railcard tickets for more than 2 years if the two kids were 18 months apart for example?

I wouldn't actually use any of these discounted tickets myself as they are for family, so what rule did I break? Also, surely I only break the rules if I actually travel with an invalid railcard?

Have they now banned a person buying tickets for someone else without publicising this?

 

[AlterEgo]

Am I missing something obvious here as, am I not correct that nothing stops me using my account to buy tickets for my whole family to avail of the 10% LNER discount for example and then in theory I would have tickets on my accounts with multiple different types of railcards and, if I had 2 children, I could easily have 16-17 railcard tickets for more than 2 years if the two kids were 18 months apart for example?

These are fishing emails which are unfortunately spooking a lot of naive people. The people who come here are invariably people who have been doing some sort of fare evasion though, so it’s hard to say how many “innocent” people WMT are snagging in the audit net.

I wouldn't actually use any of these discounted tickets myself as they are family? Also, surely I only break the rules if I actually travel with an invalid railcard?

Of course. These company has no proof of any actual offences.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Have they now banned a person buying tickets for someone else without publicising this?

They haven't, but they have discovered the delights of searching a database for anomalies. One example is checking for how long a period the 16-17 discount is applied.

It may be necessary that when you have a family account for buying tickets, that it be split according to which family member is being purchased for. That can also avoid the trap set by some retailers of rolling over a previously specified railcard.

 

[embers25]

I get this is WMT/LNR fishing, but it is VERY lazy trawling on their part and surely qualifies as making false accusations and almost unsubstantiated threatening behaviour. I get that it is clearly effective at catching some people who dodged, but I could see this type of email affecting many families and causing a lot of stress to many that have done absolutely nothing wrong as most don't understand railway rules, but will see headline cases in the paper and so panic. I think I understand the rules well, but even I had to check as it's not unheard of for rules to be changed with little to no publicity on the railway.

 

[Haywain]

One example is checking for how long a period the 16-17 discount is applied.

Along with the use of the Job Centre Plus railcard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Apr 2025 ==

I get this is WMT/LNR fishing, but it is VERY lazy trawling on their part and surely qualifies as making false accusations and almost unsubstantiated threatening behaviour.

Excrpt from what we see the people receiving these emails are misusing railcard discounts, so the targetting is actually quite good.

 

[embers25]

Along with the use of the Job Centre Plus railcard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Apr 2025 ==


Excrpt from what we see the people receiving these emails are misusing railcard discounts, so the targetting is actually quite good.

Agree based on this thread, although it could have gone to hundreds, not just these couple of people as not everyone would think to look here were they to get a letter. Obviously without being vaguely threatening everyone would just delete it, so it's having the desired effect and reducing fare dodging in theory helps keep fares low but feels like a slippery slope.

 

[saismee]

in theory helps keep fares low but feels like a slippery slope.

Helps keep profits high!*
I agree it's a little slippery, but I'd imagine the company backs off if they get a response explaining the customer's use case. It would be trivial to not send these emails to anyone who is:
(a) buying a 16-17 ticket and another adult ticket together for the same day/time (clearly travelling with their child)
(b) buying 16-17 tickets consistently, but also consistently buying differently discounted tickets for the same days (child going to school, adult going to work)

If the company is backing off when getting a reasonable explanation then it's perfectly fine in my books, even if the odd innocent person gets accused. We've seen more than one fare evader self-incriminate in a haste before posting to the forum... it's certainly an effective strategy! You can't exactly self-incriminate if you aren't guilty of the crime. I also imagine that many people who get these scary emails quit their evasion, even if they don't get caught and don't reply - they realise they aren't as sneaky as they think.

 

[AlterEgo]

Helps keep profits high!*
I agree it's a little slippery, but I'd imagine the company backs off if they get a response explaining the customer's use case. It would be trivial to not send these emails to anyone who is:
(a) buying a 16-17 ticket and another adult ticket together for the same day/time (clearly travelling with their child)
(b) buying 16-17 tickets consistently, but also consistently buying differently discounted tickets for the same days (child going to school, adult going to work)

If the company is backing off when getting a reasonable explanation then it's perfectly fine in my books, even if the odd innocent person gets accused. We've seen more than one fare evader self-incriminate in a haste before posting to the forum... it's certainly an effective strategy! You can't exactly self-incriminate if you aren't guilty of the crime. I also imagine that many people who get these scary emails quit their evasion, even if they don't get caught and don't reply - they realise they aren't as sneaky as they think.

The company also backs off if you don’t reply. They send a few begging emails pleading for you to decrease your IQ and increase your paranoia a bit and reply, and eventually they just close the case. Very many emails won’t be replied to, and many won’t ever be read.