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Oxford to Cowley (THA) branch re-opening

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The Planner

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The station is absolutely fine for the city centre, as the hundreds of people getting off trains and walking there every day (including me, a few hours ago) will testify. It's under half a mile from the station to the Westgate. We're not exactly talking Cambridge here.
Its an issue when you consider generalised journey time. The branch is going to be 2tph at best, with the Business Park station being right on the edge of Blackbird Leys as discussed prior. If there a bus every 5 or so minutes which is easier to get to, you are going to need a lot to drag people off that.
 
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MarkyT

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The distance from the station to the city centre is less than a tenth of the distance from the proposed cowley station to the city centre and given the amount of ever continuing public realm improvement over the past 20 odd years the walk(or bus, integrated transport would be ideal here) deeper into the city really no longer seems as long.
There's cities around with far worse main station siting.
I agree. It's better located than many towns and cities; Cambridge for example. I haven't been to Oxford for years but when I lived in Reading I visited frequently. Once I'd made the trip for the first time I found the walk to any usual tourist or shopping site no issue at all. Flat and few roads to cross. The question remains exactly where IS the centre of a large settlement like Oxford. Does a traditional town square or similar actually represent the notional centre of population, employment distribution etc? And even if it does is it optimal for servicing the broader settlement? Is is where most transport connections are available?

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Its an issue when you consider generalised journey time. The branch is going to be 2tph at best, with the Business Park station being right on the edge of Blackbird Leys as discussed prior. If there a bus every 5 or so minutes which is easier to get to, you are going to need a lot to drag people off that.
I doubt there'd be much traffic between 'city centre' and Cowley. It will be more a last-mile or two distributor to a particular popular employment area for people arriving by train from elsewhere at Oxford station. If you happened to live right next to the station it might be more convenient than the bus.
 
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zwk500

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I agree. It's better located than many towns and cities; Cambridge for example. I haven't been to Oxford for years but when I lived in Reading I visited frequently. Once I'd made the trip for the first time I found the walk to any usual tourist or shopping site no issue at all. Flat and few roads to cross.
As a general point, the main station is often fine for coming from out of town because you gain lots of the advantages of the train, whereas to take a bus would get much harsher penalties the further out you start from. However from a local trip, the benfits of the trains and penalties to buses are likely to be much lower, because of the short distance. With Cowley (and many other suburban/metro branches), the fact it slightly circumvents the main destination area also doesn't help. It doesn't mean no intra-Oxford journeys would be made on the new branch, but I would expect less percentage mode capture for rail on Cowley-Oxford than routes like Cowley-Bicester/London (so long as a direct train is run to those places).
It's also a point that the city developed for 50-100 years with certain transport corridors in place, and then has developed without them (and with others) for another 50-70 years. In that time travel patterns can shift markedly.
 

MarkyT

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As a general point, the main station is often fine for coming from out of town because you gain lots of the advantages of the train, whereas to take a bus would get much harsher penalties the further out you start from. However from a local trip, the benfits of the trains and penalties to buses are likely to be much lower, because of the short distance. With Cowley (and many other suburban/metro branches), the fact it slightly circumvents the main destination area also doesn't help. It doesn't mean no intra-Oxford journeys would be made on the new branch, but I would expect less percentage mode capture for rail on Cowley-Oxford than routes like Cowley-Bicester/London (so long as a direct train is run to those places).
It's also a point that the city developed for 50-100 years with certain transport corridors in place, and then has developed without them (and with others) for another 50-70 years. In that time travel patterns can shift markedly.
Fully agree. Unsurprisingly, many smaller towns and cities lost most of their local inner suburban railway networks fairly early on, well before Beeching. That was the case even in London where many local services that didn't get absorbed into LU were lost well before the Beeching era as tram, bus, and tube simply outcompeted them. Unless it's a major metro branch line with very high frequency (usually only in top tier cities), bus (or tram) usually wins, largely down to frequency over shorter distances, but unfortunately bus often falls down heavily on journey time reliability, particularly in peaks which is street modes' 'Achilles Heal'. The main bus station moving to the station vicinity might make some difference providing easier interchange possibilities from longer distance and local buses. Further development increasing residential and or employment density around the station could also make some impact.
 

JJmoogle

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I doubt there'd be much traffic between 'city centre' and Cowley. It will be more a last-mile or two distributor to a particular popular employment area for people arriving by train from elsewhere at Oxford station. If you happened to live right next to the station it might be more convenient than the bus.
Yes I largely agree with this

As a result of this thread I've spent the past hour actually catching up on the current 'plan' for oxford and getting my head round all the new developments and their locations, I have to say the city is building and developing itself a lot more and a lot quicker than I first realised, so additional transport should be welcomed and, indeed be neccessary.
 

Doctor Fegg

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Its an issue when you consider generalised journey time. The branch is going to be 2tph at best, with the Business Park station being right on the edge of Blackbird Leys as discussed prior. If there a bus every 5 or so minutes which is easier to get to, you are going to need a lot to drag people off that.
Absolutely yes, GJT makes it not an apples-to-apples comparison. I think we're slightly arguing at cross-purposes anyway because I don't think the main role of the Cowley reopening is going to be BBL–city centre journeys: it's partly for the employment sites around the south, and substantially to enable both regeneration of BBL itself and the new housing developments that are envisaged in the area.

That said… bus journeys in Oxford are insanely slow right now. In the morning peak, the 5 is timetabled to take one hour from Blackbird Leys to the city centre. In reality it takes even longer if the Plain is snarled up. If the times work out (and many Oxford commuters, even in BBL, have the sort of job where you can flex your office hours a little bit either way), a 10 minute walk + 10 minute train + 10 minute walk will look pretty attractive compared to an hour on a bus.
 

Merioneth

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Many of the people who work in the new business park offices in Cowley live in Witney (see the thread about rebuilding the branch there) or Bicester. Both these groups have to traverse the very congested ring road. Trains from Bicester to Cowley will bring immediate relief and offer a journey time reduction that will be worthwhile. A couple of trains each way to Cowley from Charlbury (and Hanborough) in the peaks would also be popular, avoiding the 40+ minutes of queues on the A40 each way.

Paul
 

Kingham West

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Many of the people who work in the new business park offices in Cowley live in Witney (see the thread about rebuilding the branch there) or Bicester. Both these groups have to traverse the very congested ring road. Trains from Bicester to Cowley will bring immediate relief and offer a journey time reduction that will be worthwhile. A couple of trains each way to Cowley from Charlbury (and Hanborough) in the peaks would also be popular, avoiding the 40+ minutes of queues on the A40 each way.

Paul
This scheme is all about getting people to jobs , don’t forget 8000+, new houses south of the business park station, also a very strong driver.
Witney is desperate for a rail link, and the case is strong , but due to pathing constraints , Bicester is a more better fit for operational reasons .
Only those who have seen traffic around Oxford , will understand rail modal superiority, congestion will only get worse with the strong economic growth .
 

NickBucks

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There is also a major development at Oxford North ( Science Park plus flats/ houses which boosts the need for a rail service of some type along the A40 and A34 corridor. Perhaps the study could also include scope for a new station on the East-West route just north of Wolvercote tunnel to serve this development.Oxford Parkway P & R has too little parking and would need a bus shuttle.
 

The Planner

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There is also a major development at Oxford North ( Science Park plus flats/ houses which boosts the need for a rail service of some type along the A40 and A34 corridor. Perhaps the study could also include scope for a new station on the East-West route just north of Wolvercote tunnel to serve this development.Oxford Parkway P & R has too little parking and would need a bus shuttle.
A bus which would be millions of pounds cheaper. Its less than a mile from Oxford Parkway.
 

12LDA28C

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There is also a major development at Oxford North ( Science Park plus flats/ houses which boosts the need for a rail service of some type along the A40 and A34 corridor. Perhaps the study could also include scope for a new station on the East-West route just north of Wolvercote tunnel to serve this development.Oxford Parkway P & R has too little parking and would need a bus shuttle.

Wolvercote tunnel is very close to Oxford Parkway and there has always been plenty of parking space available at Oxford Parkway every time I've been there. It's never been even close to being full.
 

Doctor Fegg

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There is also a major development at Oxford North ( Science Park plus flats/ houses which boosts the need for a rail service of some type along the A40 and A34 corridor. Perhaps the study could also include scope for a new station on the East-West route just north of Wolvercote tunnel to serve this development.Oxford Parkway P & R has too little parking and would need a bus shuttle.
Oxfordshire County Council has proposed a direct cycle/pedestrian route from Oxford North to Oxford Parkway, likely to be built as part of the housing development earmarked for the North Oxford Golf Course. This in itself should be enough.
 

THC

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Campaign launched to support Cowley branch reopening.

THC


BBC article said:
Restoring a passenger rail service in east Oxford would provide a "fast and reliable" transport link to the city centre, a newly-formed campaign group has said.
The Cowley Branch Line is currently only used by freight going to and from the BMW Mini Plant. It has been closed to passengers since 1963.
The Campaign for Cowley Branch Line has been set up to back efforts to create two new stations and provide a nine-minute journey time to the city centre.
The group is calling on local businesses to support the effort to get the transport link prioritised in regional infrastructure planning.
 

cle

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It sounds relatively on its way - in terms of consultations, study, the budget going to government.

I can't imagine this is hugely expensive (curious on if single tracked the whole way or opportunities for passing / more than single occupation) - and it might for a time, mitigate the big rebuild at Oxford.

Would see platform 3 very busy - ironically it could probably do with a Cambridge scissors set up. But 4 can pick up more of that function, with 5 being all northbound service. Will P5 be able to access Oxford Parkway?

But this is the type of low hanging, high benefit project which the government throws money at, if Cambridge :)

Could no doubt support a lot of home building.
 

fishwomp

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I can't imagine this is hugely expensive (curious on if single tracked the whole way or opportunities for passing / more than single occupation) - and it might for a time, mitigate the big rebuild at Oxford.
It could absolutely be done as a separate isolated railway by slewing the existing up to the down, and the down to use a (relaid) freight loop through Hinksey etc: just add platform in the car park south of the station.
 

Class 170101

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Would see platform 3 very busy - ironically it could probably do with a Cambridge scissors set up. But 4 can pick up more of that function, with 5 being all northbound service. Will P5 be able to access Oxford Parkway?
Don't recommend a Cambridge scissors arrangement. The ones at Cambridge are a pain to plan around. I imagine the scissors are a pain to maintain too.
 

MrToad

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I am also surprised that the football ground has any bearing on reopening this line, being only a couple of hundred yards away - Oxfords ground is one of the most inaccessible in the country via public transport and is a good way out of the city.

Of course, Oxford United are now looking to relocate to near where Oxford Parkway station is. So that ship has probably already sailed, and just 25 days per year when a match is on would not be justification alone, but it is something that could have got thrown into the mix to support the case for reopening.
 

RGM654

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Campaign launched to support Cowley branch reopening.

THC

Although I am in favour of the re-opening, I am not altogether convinced about the '"fast and reliable" transport link to the city centre'. Depending exactly where in the city centre you want to get to, a bus will get you considerably closer than a train to the station. Yes, road traffic can be slow, but there are bus lanes, and Cowley to the centre by road is a significantly shorter distance than by rail.
 

JamesT

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To my mind the primary benefit for outbound travellers is the security of being on a rail ticket. No more hoping that the bus makes it to the station in time to catch the first train, you're on the train and have the protection of being able to catch later connections.
 

Lloyds siding

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Despite the premium fares for peak rail travel into Oxford, they are a very popular option for many commuters. There are bus lanes as folk have mentioned, however these are of varying length and usefulness. Roads from the north are well served by the bus lanes, eastern roads less so, and the southern ones might as well not exist. Access from the west has been difficult since Network Rail closed the Botley Road bridge in April 2023 (latest proposed reopening is August 2026)... I can well understand the enthusiasm for the Cowley reopening, having spent hours sat on a bus in the queues over the last two summers.
 

Benjwri

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To my mind the primary benefit for outbound travellers is the security of being on a rail ticket. No more hoping that the bus makes it to the station in time to catch the first train, you're on the train and have the protection of being able to catch later connections.
Imagine a joined up transport system where your ticket was just accepted in this case….
 

BlueLeanie

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Although I am in favour of the re-opening, I am not altogether convinced about the '"fast and reliable" transport link to the city centre'. Depending exactly where in the city centre you want to get to, a bus will get you considerably closer than a train to the station. Yes, road traffic can be slow, but there are bus lanes, and Cowley to the centre by road is a significantly shorter distance than by rail.

I've just had a look at Google Maps, and as far as I can see there isn't a single metre of bus lane from The Queen's College either to the Ambassador Roundabout (via Cowley Road) or the Littlemore Roundabout (via Iffley Road) on the bypass.

It also looks like both these routes are predominantly 20mph too.

Looking at Google Maps, congestion, and cross-referencing timetables. It would appear that residents who live within walking distance of the proposed new stations could currently quite probably drive to Haddenham or Didcot and take the train to London in about the same time that it takes to get the bus into Oxford.
 

The Planner

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To my mind the primary benefit for outbound travellers is the security of being on a rail ticket. No more hoping that the bus makes it to the station in time to catch the first train, you're on the train and have the protection of being able to catch later connections.
The buses from that area of Oxford are every 5 minutes to the station.
 

JamesT

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The buses from that area of Oxford are every 5 minutes to the station.
In the very peak, yes, in theory. Outside of that, somewhat less frequent. Especially if you have an operator-specific ticket then it might be only every 20 minutes to get a bus you can use.
But as @The exile mentions, the bigger issue is the unreliability of travel times. I've made it from Blackbird Leys to the station in 35 minutes on a Sunday morning. I've also had it take well over an hour just to get to the city centre.
 

The Planner

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That’s of little consolation if you can’t predict how long it’s going to take to get there. Good on the way home - less so in the other direction.
Also factor in the cost, and the fact any trains on a Cowley/Blackbird Leys branch are going to be 2tph at best. People inside the ring road aren't going to go out to come back in by train.
 

BlueLeanie

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Also factor in the cost, and the fact any trains on a Cowley/Blackbird Leys branch are going to be 2tph at best. People inside the ring road aren't going to go out to come back in by train.
Between Science Park, Ellison Institute, NHS, Kassan Laboratory Park, Unipart, Rudolph Hellellmann, BMW, ARC Park there must be about 20,000 people currently or planned to be working adjacent to these stations.

I'm not sure how many people live nearby but it can't be far off the same. I suspect some would stick with the bus because they'll have a Bus pass.
 

fishwomp

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Also factor in the cost, and the fact any trains on a Cowley/Blackbird Leys branch are going to be 2tph at best. People inside the ring road aren't going to go out to come back in by train.
There is a lot of housing along the route, and Oxford is also a city of cyclists, and well connected but unpredictable bus and car options.

If I were within a mile of any of the proposed stations in any direction, I'd be using that rather than trying my luck with the 2-3 mile journey into the city . Half hourly frequency is fine if you can rely on it - and given the journey time.

It'll be a popular line .. and that's before including the science parks as a destination.
 
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