TfW - Travel Investigations Ltd

[Dan8801]

Hi All,

Looking for a bit of advice please

I was issued a Travel Incident Report by TIL on behalf of TfW last Saturday at Cardiff Central.

Few issues, there was segregation throughout the station so self service machines not an option, I didn't buy a ticket from Lydney as there's been times in the past in rugby days due to over crowding I haven't been able to board so didn't want to be out of pocket and first train on the day boarding was denied which seemed to vindicate this decision.

Upon arrival at Cardiff couldn't buy a ticket and staff appeared to be selling to some but not others, I was not offered the opportunity to buy and was interviewed by Revenue Protection and TIR issued, the guy issuing it said that at this stage it's being treated as a parking ticket would be.

During the 'interview' he also asked me details about my employment which seems overly disproportionate and he couldn't give a valid reason for why it was needed and just that it was an option on his screen and I refused to provide this on the basis he couldn't justify why it was needed or how that information would be used

I suppose questions are

1. Is my rationale mitigation enough to avoid a more punitive punishment
2. Should I proactively reach out to TIL
3. Why would he confirm how it's being treated before any 'investigation' has been completed
4. Has anyone else experienced the job title element of a TIR interview

My bigger issue here is that TFW have effectively forced me to present without a ticket by denying access to ticket purchasing facilities before leaving the station and also appear to be choosing to sell tickets selectively at the makeshift checkpoint.

I've sent a FOI request to TFW asking how many times they've denied access to ticket machines within hne last year and the number of tickets sold on the day by staff in relation which given the statutory deadline should help with mitigation that I was prevented and/or denied the option to buy a ticket when xx% of passengers on the day were afforded the opportunity to do so.

Thanks in advance

Dan

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi All,

Looking for a bit of advice please

I was issued a Travel Incident Report by TIL on behalf of TfW last Saturday at Cardiff Central.

Few issues, there was segregation throughout the station so self service machines not an option, I didn't buy a ticket from Lydney as there's been times in the past in rugby days due to over crowding I haven't been able to board so didn't want to be out of pocket and first train on the day boarding was denied which seemed to vindicate this decision.

Upon arrival at Cardiff couldn't buy a ticket and staff appeared to be selling to some but not others, I was not offered the opportunity to buy and was interviewed by Revenue Protection and TIR issued, the guy issuing it said that at this stage it's being treated as a parking ticket would be.

During the 'interview' he also asked me details about my employment which seems overly disproportionate and he couldn't give a valid reason for why it was needed and just that it was an option on his screen and I refused to provide this on the basis he couldn't justify why it was needed or how that information would be used

I suppose questions are

1. Is my rationale mitigation enough to avoid a more punitive punishment
2. Should I proactively reach out to TIL
3. Why would he confirm how it's being treated before any 'investigation' has been completed
4. Has anyone else experienced the job title element of a TIR interview

My bigger issue here is that TFW have effectively forced me to present without a ticket by denying access to ticket purchasing facilities before leaving the station and also appear to be choosing to sell tickets selectively at the makeshift checkpoint.

I've sent a FOI request to TFW asking how many times they've denied access to ticket machines within hne last year and the number of tickets sold on the day by staff in relation which given the statutory deadline should help with mitigation that I was prevented and/or denied the option to buy a ticket when xx% of passengers on the day were afforded the opportunity to do so.

Thanks in advance

Dan

Since you’re required to buy a ticket before you commence your journey, any access to ticket buying facilities at your destination is irrelevant.

Stepping on board the train without a ticket is already committing a criminal offence (unless Lydney has no ticket buying facility at all) so had you arrived at Cardiff and gone to use a ticket machine and then used that ticket to exit the station you should still have been reported for investigation.

Your FoI request is irrelevant and won’t help you. Luckily TIL will almost certainly not see it.

In the meantime definitely do not contact TIL about this before they contact you. TIL are very difficult to deal with so anything you say to them now is more likely to be used against you than to help you. You must wait to hear from them.

Whilst I sympathise with your reasoning for not buying a ticket before you know you will actually be able to get on a train I don’t think this will cut any ice with the railway/ TIL.

I think you were wise not to answer questions about your employment. I can’t think of reasons why they might ask about it other than to have the information for some sort of debt collection process should that eventually become necessary for them. But others may know of other reasons I’ve not thought of.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm assuming your journey was Lydney to Cardiff Central? Why didn't you purchase a ticket before you boarded the train at Lydney? I know you said you were unable to board the first train but if you were going to travel on a later train then you would need a ticket. It is a criminal offence to board a train without a ticket if ticket purchasing facilities are available at the station where you start your journey.

WHat happens next is TIL will send you a letter saying that they are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. You must reply to this letter and I suggest a short, concide reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfW/TIL are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to but normally they will offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. TIL are notoriously tricky to deal with and it normal to have to write to them at least twice to get them to offer a settlement. If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate in addition to an admin fee, typically £150.

When it arrives, post a redacted copy of TIL's letter in this thread, along with your draft reply and froum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

To answer your specific questions:

1. Is my rationale mitigation enough to avoid a more punitive punishment

Assuming I've interpreted what you've said correctly you should have purchased a ticket at Lydney. Were you denied the opportunity to do this?

2. Should I proactively reach out to TIL

No. Wait for them to contact you. They deal with hundreds of cases at any one time and it might take a time for them to write to you.

3. Why would he confirm how it's being treated before any 'investigation' has been completed

I suspect this was said to prevent the matter from escalating. A parking offence is completely different to a rail ticketing matter.

4. Has anyone else experienced the job title element of a TIR interview

I don't recall this happening. There is nothing to stop them asking but you are not obliged to give this information (but you are legally obliged to give them your name and address). Geberally speaking it's a good thing to co-operate but rather than come across as obstructive if I was asked this sort of question I would give a very general reply. Something like 'Civil Servant', 'Shop Worker', 'Manager' etc. I would not be giving any details about my employer.

My bigger issue here is that TFW have effectively forced me to present without a ticket by denying access to ticket purchasing facilities before leaving the station and also appear to be choosing to sell tickets selectively at the makeshift checkpoint.

Lydney station has a ticket machine which you should have used to purchase a ticket. There was no need for you to be offered the opportunity to purchase a ticket upon arrival at Cardiff Central unless the tiucket machine at Lydney was not working, it was not accepting your chosen payment method or could not sell you the ticket you wanted for your journey.

I've sent a FOI request to TFW asking how many times they've denied access to ticket machines within hne last year and the number of tickets sold on the day by staff in relation which given the statutory deadline should help with mitigation that I was prevented and/or denied the option to buy a ticket when xx% of passengers on the day were afforded the opportunity to do so.

I strongly suggest you do not mention this sort of stuff in your reply to TIL, unless you want them to send your case to the Magistrates Court.

 

[Dan8801]

Thanks for the reply however I dispute your point that the FOI is irrelevant, if as I'm sure it will prove that tickets were sold to passengers at the makeshift gate by staff from stations including Lydney it shows that this action is disproportionate and is an inconsistent application to the law and they'd surely need to prove if it went to court why prosecution of me was presumed and not 1000s of others at the time when tfw records would evidence the volume being sold at the time

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for the reply however I dispute your point that the FOI is irrelevant, if as I'm sure it will prove that tickets were sold to passengers at the makeshift gate by staff from stations including Lydney it shows that this action is disproportionate and is an inconsistent application to the law and they'd surely need to prove if it went to court why prosecution of me was presumed and not 1000s of others at the time when tfw records would evidence the volume being sold at the time

They wouldn’t need to prove any of that in court. It wouldn’t be relevant to your case at all. All they need to prove is you travelled without a valid ticket and that is case over.

I doubt the FoI will even be answered (rejected on grounds data not available or some such but of course you will hear in due course).

You are in a very weak position in all this and you should bear that in mind.

But if you want to debate it in court I rather suspect TIL will be an organisation very happy to oblige.

Apols as I suspect this isn’t what you want to hear but keep us posted on how things develop and if you need any further advice.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for the reply however I dispute your point that the FOI is irrelevant, if as I'm sure it will prove that tickets were sold to passengers at the makeshift gate by staff from stations including Lydney it shows that this action is disproportionate and is an inconsistent application to the law and they'd surely need to prove if it went to court why prosecution of me was presumed and not 1000s of others at the time when tfw records would evidence the volume being sold at the time

I agree with what @WesternLancer has said.

You've committed what's known as a Strict Liability offence - all TfW/TIL need to show to a court is that you didn't possess a ticket. The situation at Cardiff Central is irrelevent, you should have purchased a ticket at Lydney. WHat happened to others is not relevent either - there might be legitimate reasons why they were sold a ticket. Although comparisons with motoring offences aren't always relevent it's like saying I shoudln't be prosecuted for speeding because everyone else was speeding as well.

By all means let the case go to court but if it ends up there you will lose. The Magistrates can only judge on what the law says. If you want to keep this out of court my advice is to co-operate with TfW/TIL, not antagonise them.

 

[gray1404]

How did you wish to pay for your ticket? Does the ticket machine at Lydney accept or chosen payment method?

Many of the TfW ticket machines are card only and do not accept cash.

 

[Lewisham2221]

How did you wish to pay for your ticket? Does the ticket machine at Lydney accept or chosen payment method?

Many of the TfW ticket machines are card only and do not accept cash.

The OP has already stated that they didn't buy a ticket in case the train was busy, not because they wanted to use cash.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for the reply however I dispute your point that the FOI is irrelevant, if as I'm sure it will prove that tickets were sold to passengers at the makeshift gate by staff from stations including Lydney it shows that this action is disproportionate and is an inconsistent application to the law and they'd surely need to prove if it went to court why prosecution of me was presumed and not 1000s of others at the time when tfw records would evidence the volume being sold at the time

They wouldn’t need to prove any of that at all. You committed the offence the moment you stepped on the train. It’s a very simple matter to prosecute you via the Single Justice Procedure and you have no defence in law to a Bylaw 18 accusation.

Your argument is the same as someone pulled over for doing 40 in a 30, getting written up by the police officer and complaining that while you were being written up someone else was speeding past the police officer. “Look there are other people doing it too and they’re not being written up!”

 

[Fawkes Cat]

They wouldn’t need to prove any of that at all. You committed the offence the moment you stepped on the train. It’s a very simple matter to prosecute you via the Single Justice Procedure and you have no defence in law to a Bylaw 18 accusation.

Your argument is the same as someone pulled over for doing 40 in a 30, getting written up by the police officer and complaining that while you were being written up someone else was speeding past the police officer. “Look there are other people doing it too and they’re not being written up!”

It's also worth bearing in mind that your initial aim will most likely be to avoid the matter going to court: you do, of course, have the right to a hearing there, but most people prefer to deal with the matter out of court as it's quicker, cheaper and so less stressful.

So while you may want to pursue the FoI request, it's worth keeping it in your pocket until you need to reveal it: mentioning it when you are negotiating for an out of court settlement (which tends to take a couple of rounds of correspondence with TIL) would, I think, provoke the other side rather than strengthening your hand.

 

[styles]

Thanks for the reply however I dispute your point that the FOI is irrelevant, if as I'm sure it will prove that tickets were sold to passengers at the makeshift gate by staff from stations including Lydney it shows that this action is disproportionate and is an inconsistent application to the law and they'd surely need to prove if it went to court why prosecution of me was presumed and not 1000s of others at the time when tfw records would evidence the volume being sold at the time

Fare evasion is a strict liability offence. The court will find you guilty if you committed fare evasion, regardless of your motivation or how proportionate it may be to bring a prosecution.

 

[RPI]

According to the TfW website, Lydney is a Penalty Fare station so there should be warning signs there - though this doesn't appear to be a Penalty Fare issue, out of interest, did the OP ask for a ticket from Lydney or from another station? The reason I ask this is because I'm curious as to why a Penalty Fare wasn't issued - obviously it is down to the inspector what course of action to take.

 

[WesternLancer]

According to the TfW website, Lydney is a Penalty Fare station so there should be warning signs there - though this doesn't appear to be a Penalty Fare issue, out of interest, did the OP ask for a ticket from Lydney or from another station? The reason I ask this is because I'm curious as to why a Penalty Fare wasn't issued - obviously it is down to the inspector what course of action to take.

Point well made. If it was a v busy day due to sports you might think dealing with cases quickly via Penalty Fare would be an attractive option for revenue staff on duty that day.

 

[WoodHillsian]

When I came out of the station on my way to the rugby last week, the railway had set up a queuing system across the square in front of the main entrance, with signs directing people down various lanes - some signed as "Ticket Holders" and some as "Without tickets" - which suggests that they were expecting large numbers of people to arrive without tickets - were they trying to prosecute everyone without a ticket? Or perhaps only those ticketless people who went down the ticket holder lanes? Which way did the OP go?

 

[Dan8801]

I was asked and confirmed that I got on at Lydney and explained the reason for not purchasing a ticket as legitimately if I couldn't have got the one I did then I'd have got an Uber and if I had purchased a ticket for the train that boarding was denied it could still be argued I'd have travelled with an invalid ticket.

Whilst I accept the point of travelling without a ticket there's been times in the past where I've just had to drive due to how busy it's been and putting myself out of pocket voluntarily isn't something I felt comfortable with.

For me it seems like it should have been a standard penalty fine issuance issue especially given the unique circumstances of it being a rugby day, trains full to capacity and no option to buy tickets at the destination and therefore the TIR seems disproportionate and selective as others were being sold tickets who were on the same train and boarded at Lydney.

Hopefully TIL will actually see this and deal with it this way

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==

When I came out of the station on my way to the rugby last week, the railway had set up a queuing system across the square in front of the main entrance, with signs directing people down various lanes - some signed as "Ticket Holders" and some as "Without tickets" - which suggests that they were expecting large numbers of people to arrive without tickets - were they trying to prosecute everyone without a ticket? Or perhaps only those ticketless people who went down the ticket holder lanes? Which way did the OP go?

I was told to go down any route and that it 'didn't matter' which line I was in. As I've said in other comments it seems really odd and disproportionate given how the station was laid out on the day

 

[WesternLancer]

When I came out of the station on my way to the rugby last week, the railway had set up a queuing system across the square in front of the main entrance, with signs directing people down various lanes - some signed as "Ticket Holders" and some as "Without tickets" - which suggests that they were expecting large numbers of people to arrive without tickets - were they trying to prosecute everyone without a ticket? Or perhaps only those ticketless people who went down the ticket holder lanes? Which way did the OP go?

Which station are you referring to here?

 

[Dan8801]

Cardiff Central

 

[Lewisham2221]

I was asked and confirmed that I got on at Lydney and explained the reason for not purchasing a ticket as legitimately if I couldn't have got the one I did then I'd have got an Uber and if I had purchased a ticket for the train that boarding was denied it could still be argued I'd have travelled with an invalid ticket.

Whilst I accept the point of travelling without a ticket there's been times in the past where I've just had to drive due to how busy it's been and putting myself out of pocket voluntarily isn't something I felt comfortable with.

For me it seems like it should have been a standard penalty fine issuance issue especially given the unique circumstances of it being a rugby day, trains full to capacity and no option to buy tickets at the destination and therefore the TIR seems disproportionate and selective as others were being sold tickets who were on the same train and boarded at Lydney.

Hopefully TIL will actually see this and deal with it this way

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==


I was told to go down any route and that it 'didn't matter' which line I was in. As I've said in other comments it seems really odd and disproportionate given how the station was laid out on the day

Unfortunately, as others have already stated, this is all completely irrelevant.

The moment you stepped onto the train, without a ticket, you commited a criminal offence. That is all that TIL need to prove to a court in order to achieve a conviction. To my knowledge, it is not possible to retrospectively issue a Penalty Fare.

If the case goes to court and you are convicted, you will have to pay:
Compensation (the cost of an Anytime single ticket from Lydney to Cardiff Central)
Costs (likely to be at least whatever TIL would request in an out of court settlement)
Victim Surcharge
A punitive Fine
You would also receive a criminal record.

When TIL write to you, I would suggest that you are calm, apologetic and politely request if it would be possible to settle out of court. Arguing the case and claiming that you are being treated unfairly is likely to antagonise them and lead to them not offering to settle out of court. An out of court settlement would likely be equivalent to paying to the compensation and costs elements above (The cost of a Lydney - Cardiff single and an admin fee, typically around £150). You would not pay a victim surcharge or a punitive fine, nor would you receive a criminal record.

 

[Haywain]

I was asked and confirmed that I got on at Lydney and explained the reason for not purchasing a ticket as legitimately if I couldn't have got the one I did then I'd have got an Uber and if I had purchased a ticket for the train that boarding was denied it could still be argued I'd have travelled with an invalid ticket.

Whilst I accept the point of travelling without a ticket there's been times in the past where I've just had to drive due to how busy it's been and putting myself out of pocket voluntarily isn't something I felt comfortable with.

There’s an alternative reading of this that you seem unaware of. It could very easily be interpreted as saying, “with it being so busy it will be easy to get away with not paying”.

 

[John R]

Which station are you referring to here?

That will be Cardiff Central. On match days they open the gateline, and then at the far end of Central Square there are barriers that form several queue lines, at the end of which are two or three inspectors for each line. This enables many tens of people to queue waiting to have their ticket checked away from the immediate station area, which would rapidly become dangerous. It works very well, unlike the Welsh rugby team currently.

(While the match is in progress the barriers are then reconfigured to form the various queuing lines for the return journey.)

 

[AlterEgo]

Hopefully TIL will actually see this and deal with it this way

You will not be Penalty Fared, we can be certain of this; Penalty Fares cannot be issued retrospectively and you have been reported for prosecution, under the Railway Bylaws.

 

[WesternLancer]

For me it seems like it should have been a standard penalty fine issuance issue especially given the unique circumstances of it being a rugby day, trains full to capacity and no option to buy tickets at the destination and therefore the TIR seems disproportionate and selective as others were being sold tickets who were on the same train and boarded at Lydney.

Hopefully TIL will actually see this and deal with it this way

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Mar 2025 ==


I was told to go down any route and that it 'didn't matter' which line I was in. As I've said in other comments it seems really odd and disproportionate given how the station was laid out on the day

I'm pretty sure they won't deal with it in that way - you will get their standard 'hard ball response' - I don't think they will care at all about the specific circumstances. Despite what you saw on the day with other people seemingly being allowed to pay I'm sure there will be plenty of other people who are being treated like you were.

In the great scheme of things we don't see lots of cases on here from TfW (not really sure why that is actually) - but here's a typical example of TIL's approach from not so long ago that you can read through to get the idea of how you will be treated - even tho this is a case of more deliberate fare evasion than you have outlined, I don't think TIL will care and will just apply their standard approach - which we have seen in the past with things like people who have made genuine mistakes not to renew their railcard etc.

see:

Prosecution for short fare - Transport Investigations Ltd

Hello, I made the stupid decision to pay for a short fare for my train journey into Cardiff Central. Essentially, I arrived at my starting station running late and did not have a ticket, the gates were open so I boarded the train without purchasing one. No ticket inspectors were on board, but...

www.railforums.co.uk

TIL were until relatively recently the back office enforcement contractor for Chiltern Trains - we saw this sort of approach on the forum from TIL very frequently involving Chiltern cases - go back to threads from a year or so ago and you will find plenty. It seems as if Chiltern now do the work in house so things have changed, but TILs intransigence was regularly demonstrated in threads on this forum.

I would think that the best chance of getting TIL to apply any mitigation would be to find grounds in TfW's published revenue protection policy that gives any justification for the decisions you made and what happened on the day. You can have a read of this here:

web page

Revenue protection | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

and related pdf document

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2020-09/TfW%20Revenue%20Protection%20POLICY%20%200420%5B1%5D.pdf

It will be helpful if you could keep us posted on developments, whatever approach you decide to adopt to how you handle this, because this will then help other people get good advice in turn in future.

Good luck with it.

 

[Dan8801]

I'm pretty sure they won't deal with it in that way - you will get their standard 'hard ball response' - I don't think they will care at all about the specific circumstances. Despite what you saw on the day with other people seemingly being allowed to pay I'm sure there will be plenty of other people who are being treated like you were.

In the great scheme of things we don't see lots of cases on here from TfW (not really sure why that is actually) - but here's a typical example of TIL's approach from not so long ago that you can read through to get the idea of how you will be treated - even tho this is a case of more deliberate fare evasion than you have outlined, I don't think TIL will care and will just apply their standard approach - which we have seen in the past with things like people who have made genuine mistakes not to renew their railcard etc.

see:

Prosecution for short fare - Transport Investigations Ltd

Hello, I made the stupid decision to pay for a short fare for my train journey into Cardiff Central. Essentially, I arrived at my starting station running late and did not have a ticket, the gates were open so I boarded the train without purchasing one. No ticket inspectors were on board, but...

www.railforums.co.uk

TIL were until relatively recently the back office enforcement contractor for Chiltern Trains - we saw this sort of approach on the forum from TIL very frequently involving Chiltern cases - go back to threads from a year or so ago and you will find plenty. It seems as if Chiltern now do the work in house so things have changed, but TILs intransigence was regularly demonstrated in threads on this forum.

I would think that the best chance of getting TIL to apply any mitigation would be to find grounds in TfW's published revenue protection policy that gives any justification for the decisions you made and what happened on the day. You can have a read of this here:

web page

Revenue protection | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

and related pdf document

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2020-09/TfW%20Revenue%20Protection%20POLICY%20%200420%5B1%5D.pdf

It will be helpful if you could keep us posted on developments, whatever approach you decide to adopt to how you handle this, because this will then help other people get good advice in turn in future.

Good luck with it.

Thanks for the reply

Looking at the previous thread you shared it appears that if TIL can be fairly amenable albeit with some time and effort for potentially more serious issues therefore I'm fairly confident that although it'll take a lot of back and forth they'll settle out of court.

It does seem strange that the staff did seem to trivialise it at the time saying it'll just be a fine in the post and likened it to a civil parking ticket matter and to be sure I pay in 21 days, a seperate officer also stated this to my wife so it'll be interesting to see what actually comes through as surely knowingly misleading someone on the potential consequences is a massive no no and they should either remain silent as it isn't pre determined or give the potential worst case scenario with the caveat that all circumstances are different, especially having body cams etc with the powers that they have

Do you happen to know rough time lines for the letter itself to arrive, obviously not after chasing them but want to ensure that if it doesn't arrive (post is rubbish here) that it's not escalated due to a perceived lack of response

 

[John R]

It's not unusual for us to see cases here where someone reported for prosecution complains that "the next person was allowed to buy a ticket" or similar. And without knowing all the details it's impossible to know what reasoning was behind the inspector's decision to treat the two cases differently. One obvious example would be if they came from a station without appropriate ticket issuing facilities. As an example, I often travel to Cardiff for matches at the Principality, and board at Nailsea & Backwell for a direct train to Cardiff. The machine there does not take cash, and so if I wanted to pay cash, and presented cash at the inspection at Cardiff, it would have to be accepted and a ticket issued.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for the reply

Looking at the previous thread you shared it appears that if TIL can be fairly amenable albeit with some time and effort for potentially more serious issues therefore I'm fairly confident that although it'll take a lot of back and forth they'll settle out of court.

It does seem strange that the staff did seem to trivialise it at the time saying it'll just be a fine in the post and likened it to a civil parking ticket matter and to be sure I pay in 21 days, a seperate officer also stated this to my wife so it'll be interesting to see what actually comes through as surely knowingly misleading someone on the potential consequences is a massive no no and they should either remain silent as it isn't pre determined or give the potential worst case scenario with the caveat that all circumstances are different, especially having body cams etc with the powers that they have

Do you happen to know rough time lines for the letter itself to arrive, obviously not after chasing them but want to ensure that if it doesn't arrive (post is rubbish here) that it's not escalated due to a perceived lack of response

Not really seen enough TIL cases on here to give a robust view on timelines but the case I linked to is one you could use to get an idea.

 

[Dan8801]

Hi all,

As expected the letter has now come through as attached, any further guidance on an appropriate response with the additional context would be hugely appreciated

Thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

As expected the letter has now come through as attached, any further guidance on an appropriate response with the additional context would be hugely appreciated

Thanks

I'd say you should draft up something based on @Hadders advice in post #3 and post it here for comment before sending it in.

The only real mitigation I think you can state is what you stated here - ie you didn't buy a ticket because you feared not actually being able to get onto the train due to crowded conditions due to the sporting event (but I doubt they will accept that mitigation but it is what you said was your reasoning) - the important thing to stress to them as part of your reply is that you 'had no intention to evade paying the correct fare for your journey'

You may want to hold back some points (but you still need to cover the main issues as advised in post #3) since TIL are likely to reject your request not to be penalized at first stage, so you might then have something else to add if you need to have a second go at it.

 

[gray1404]

Just remember with Transport Investigations Limited it can often be necessary to write back several times in essence making the same points before they actually offer a settlement. Persistence is key.

 

[Dan8801]

Thanks again, I've put the below together and would appreciate any feedback before I send

I am writing in response to your letter dated 24 March 2025 regarding the incident on 15 March 2025. I sincerely apologise for what has happened and regret any inconvenience caused to the railway staff and Transport for Wales.

I would like to provide some context for the situation. I was initially denied boarding on my first train due to overcrowding. The next available service was delayed, and at the time, I was uncertain whether it would arrive or whether I would be able to board. Upon arrival at Cardiff Central, I intended to purchase a ticket, but the self-service ticket machines were unavailable. I want to make it absolutely clear that I had no intention of evading payment for my journey. However, I fully accept that I should have taken alternative steps to ensure I had a valid ticket, and I regret the oversight.

This experience has been a valuable lesson for me. I now fully understand the importance of ensuring that I have a valid ticket upon arrival at my destination, regardless of circumstances, and the serious consequences of failing to do so. I have also come to appreciate the impact fare evasion has on the rail industry, not only in terms of lost revenue but also in the administrative and legal costs involved. This has made me much more aware of my responsibility as a passenger, and I will be taking extra care in the future to ensure that I always have the correct and valid ticket at the earliest possible opportunity.

I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. To resolve this issue, I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare along with the train company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter.

Once again, I apologise for this incident and appreciate your time in reviewing my response. I look forward to your reply.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks again, I've put the below together and would appreciate any feedback before I send

I am writing in response to your letter dated 24 March 2025 regarding the incident on 15 March 2025. I sincerely apologise for what has happened and regret any inconvenience caused to the railway staff and Transport for Wales.

I would like to provide some context for the situation. I was initially denied boarding on my first train due to overcrowding. The next available service was delayed, and at the time, I was uncertain whether it would arrive or whether I would be able to board. Upon arrival at Cardiff Central, I intended to purchase a ticket, but the self-service ticket machines were unavailable. I want to make it absolutely clear that I had no intention of evading payment for my journey. However, I fully accept that I should have taken alternative steps to ensure I had a valid ticket, and I regret the oversight.

This experience has been a valuable lesson for me. I now fully understand the importance of ensuring that I have a valid ticket upon arrival at my destination, regardless of circumstances, and the serious consequences of failing to do so. I have also come to appreciate the impact fare evasion has on the rail industry, not only in terms of lost revenue but also in the administrative and legal costs involved. This has made me much more aware of my responsibility as a passenger, and I will be taking extra care in the future to ensure that I always have the correct and valid ticket at the earliest possible opportunity.

I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. To resolve this issue, I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare along with the train company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter.

Once again, I apologise for this incident and appreciate your time in reviewing my response. I look forward to your reply.

Looks good to me and follows the general advice usually given on here

Looks like you are resigned to paying them their admin fee, but...

I just wondered if it's worth tweaking that last bit - ie

I would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare along with the train company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter.

To, for example "I would like to offer to pay any outstanding sum owed to resolve this matter amicably"

Not really sure if that will work of course, and I would not want to suggest something that would jeopardise your efforts to get a settlement.