Citylink Fares Differential

[N1]

Which they have made a commercial decision to do so. I don’t believe the OP is an OAP (or non resident OAP) so that’s a different argument.

The law of diminishing returns comes into play and I doubt it will continue but attributing blame to ScotGov is pervers.

I think this will have to be accepted as a difference of opinion on who is to blame for the price of the ticket. However, it is clear that the method of reimbursement for concessionary fares is leading to inflated walk-up single fare prices, as per Ember's explanation in post #2. There are other methods of reimbursement that could be considered, e.g. renumeration based on distance, with a minimum level of reimbursement for short local travel in cities/towns. This can still be on a no worse off basis.

 

[Buzby]

I’m enjoying the debate - I’m sure unrealistic (or unjustified fares) can attributed
to sharp practice will be rooted out eventually. Until rail companies either end the massive disparity between Advance & walk-up due to abandoned travel plans due to circumstances changing, we’ll be stuck with it.

 

[N1]

I’m enjoying the debate - I’m sure unrealistic (or unjustified fares) can attributed
to sharp practice will be rooted out eventually. Until rail companies either end the massive disparity between Advance & walk-up due to abandoned travel plans due to circumstances changing, we’ll be stuck with it.

I thin it is fine for Intercity travel to offer discounts for booking in advance, and would also say walk-up rail tickets are also vastly overinflated, the bigger issue is the inflating of all single bus ticket prices in Scotland, not just intercity ones. Is it not still the case that a McGill's single ticket from Braehead to Glasgow is more expensive than the day ticket? I think pretty much all their single tickets are either more expensive or only marginally cheaper than a day ticket.

 

[route101]

I thin it is fine for Intercity travel to offer discounts for booking in advance, and would also say walk-up rail tickets are also vastly overinflated, the bigger issue is the inflating of all single bus ticket prices in Scotland, not just intercity ones. Is it not still the case that a McGill's single ticket from Braehead to Glasgow is more expensive than the day ticket? I think pretty much all their single tickets are either more expensive or only marginally cheaper than a day ticket.

Yes McGills singles are often more expensive than the dayticket.

The single fares on Citylink have gone up recently as I have asked or singles on the 909 and 900 and both drivers have stated its cheaper to buy the return ticket at £10.

For short hops, walk up fare should be the only fare. Advance tickets for the long trips.

 

[Buzby]

and both drivers have stated its cheaper to buy the return ticket at £10.

I have found this, even on McGills (to Largs) where drivers studiously advise passengers boarding if day ticket is better value giving them an opportunity to save money, don’t know if this is frowned upon by management anyone know?

 

[Stan Drews]

I have found this, even on McGills (to Largs) where drivers studiously advise passengers boarding if day ticket is better value giving them an opportunity to save money, don’t know if this is frowned upon by management anyone know?

Certainly not, advising of the best value fare is actively encouraged!

 

[gingerheid]

How do you work that one out? These are private companies and free to set their own pricing.

And that is a description of the exact problem. They are private companies, they are free to set their own pricing, and they should not be because the way they do so is evidence that private companies free to set their own pricing are unfit to be concerned in the provision of essential public services.

I know to book in advance, why should my taxes pay for those who don’t?

Not sure what you're trying to say there.

 

[181]

I try not to use Citylink wherever possible, on a trip from Glasgow to Oban, the driver rejected over 18 potential passengers at intermediate stops due to no booking (as the vacant seats would be occupied at later stops). It’s quite distressing for all concerned and that’s before you get to the ticket price!

Citylink in the rural bits of Scotland is a very odd hybrid - the uninitiated would just see a local bus service, but really it's half-coach half-bus, with advance booking being the norm and journeys often filling up due to the lack of standing being permitted. This is probably a pragmatic approach to an unusual set of use-cases and operational constraints, but I can entirely see how it might catch people out. In similar parts of Wales Trawscymru is just a traditional walk-up bus service with standing permitted and vehicles of a far lower standard.

I've read on these forums before about Citylink coaches filling up, so it must happen, but of the 20 or so I've been on over the years, I don't remember any being anywhere near full (although one was in fact two coaches running together).

Actually, I don’t. Just look at the Heathrow Express - I chose never to use it. Why should Citylink be any different?

HEx is marketed as a premium service. Citylink very much isn't, it's a bus/coach service.

There are a number of public transport alternatives for getting from London to Heathrow; for the OP's journey there aren't any (although the company might reckon that the lack of alternatives is what enables them to charge high fares).

Arguably Citylink is somewhat premium compared with normal buses, but over much of the Citylink network there aren't any other buses.

Three of my Citylink journeys have been in the past 12 months, all from Stirling to just short of Lochearnhead (about 25 miles); I'm fairly certain that at least one was booked in advance and at least one wasn't, and that I paid about £12.50 on all three occasions. (That journey does have a local-bus alternative, although at the time that the coach runs the next bus is the next morning).

 

[Buzby]

Not sure what you're trying to say there.

The debate has wandered from rip-off ticket prices on short journeys to OAP’s being the cause of unrealistic walk-up costs for journeys for operators to get an increased cut of the discounted reimbursement. Since your slant is that independent firms should not be allowed to set their own fares, I doubt it would benefit the industry in any meaningful way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've read on these forums before about Citylink coaches filling up, so it must happen, but of the 20 or so I've been on over the years, I don't remember any being anywhere near full (although one was in fact two coaches running together).

The Sunday morning one from Fort William (originated from Skye) was notorious for it, but I suspect that is no longer the case since there is a Sunday morning train in winter. It was at that point the only way to get past the Central Belt by public transport without staying Sunday night.

 

[N1]

Certainly not, advising of the best value fare is actively encouraged!

Thanks, so the single fares are high just to increase reimbursement for concessionary travel.

There are advantages to the current method. English ENCTS reimbursement, where the DFT calculator (supposedly) calculates the number of journeys that would have been made without ENCTS and reimburses in full, and then those that have been additionally generated reimbursed at operating costs only, means that operators are not incentivised to generate additional concessionary fare journeys. So makes it harder to encourage model shift.

With the Scottish reimbursement, it is probably possible to make a small profit on services that are almost entirely concessionary travel. I am thinking Glasgow small operators, like Avondale or Colchri Coaches.

 

[Buzby]

I am thinking Glasgow small operators, like Avondale or Colchri Coaches.

Last time I looked at their routes, most were provided under an SPT subsidy, and when these were dropped, so was the route (or taken over by another operator as part of a route extension). Blaming OAP usage for an increase in Single fares is quite a stretch.

 

[N1]

Last time I looked at their routes, most were provided under an SPT subsidy, and when these were dropped, so was the route (or taken over by another operator as part of a route extension). Blaming OAP usage for an increase in Single fares is quite a stretch.

I am not blaming OAP usage, but where single tickets are more expensive than day tickets, it is pretty obvious operators are setting these to maximise reimbursement from concessionary card holders. For Older and Disabled Persons reimbursement, there is a maximum total subsidy (to be £215.1 million for 2025-26), so by increasing single fares, operators can get a bigger slice of that pie for carrying the same number of concessionary passholders. None of Colchri or Avondale's current routes are SPT subsidised currently ASFAIK.

 

[ian1944]

The problem with a driver letting someone ride for nowt is that the lucky beneficiary is just as likely to post the fact here as did the aggrieved OP with the opposite experience, not good for future employment prospects if the individual is identifiable.

An earlier poster mentioned the erstwhile NX 383 service (Edinburgh - Wrexham via Carter Bar). I took it a few times between Edinburgh and Manchester, having all day at my disposal, because it was a nice scenic route and, though longer in distance, was considerably cheaper than the normal route vis Glasgow.

 

[route101]

I believe the walk up fare to the Isle of Skye is over £60 return from Glasgow. Citylink has gone the way of advance pre booking.

 

[hexagon789]

I believe the walk up fare to the Isle of Skye is over £60 return from Glasgow. Citylink has gone the way of advance pre booking.

£59.10 currently

 

[Buzby]

None of Colchri or Avondale's current routes are SPT subsidised currently ASFAIK.

I stand corrected, although I do recall hearing complaints in Asda Clydebank of their cutbacks a few years ago. Seemingly they’re hiking their fares at the end of the month…

 

[Stan Drews]

Last time I looked at their routes, most were provided under an SPT subsidy, and when these were dropped, so was the route (or taken over by another operator as part of a route extension). Blaming OAP usage for an increase in Single fares is quite a stretch.

I don’t recall Avondale or Colchri operating SPT tenders, they’ve generally always ran commercial routes.

Both the English and Scottish NCTS aim to ensure the operator is no better/worse off, they just do so using differing methods and calculations. In Scotland there is only one scheme, so no regional variations, unlike England where each local authority does their own thing.

 

[181]

I believe the walk up fare to the Isle of Skye is over £60 return from Glasgow. Citylink has gone the way of advance pre booking.

£59.10 currently

A quick look at the website suggests that £59.10 single is the fare, full stop (unkess it costs even more from the driver), for Glasgow-Portree -- nothing cheaper appears to be available even weeks or months ahead. Returns appear to be available for £100.50 (travelling out tomorrow) or £76.80 (2 or more days ahead), and I'm guessing those aren't available from the driver. (The distance is just over 200 miles, so while not a small sum of money, per mile it's a lot less expensive than the OP's short journey).

 

[Stena Galloway]

Instead of buying singles or returns why not have a look at the Explorer pass. A 3 day pass to use on the whole Citylink network is a mere £66. A 5 day pass £98. These appear to be excellent value for money.

 

[hexagon789]

A quick look at the website suggests that £59.10 single is the fare, full stop (unkess it costs even more from the driver), for Glasgow-Portree -- nothing cheaper appears to be available even weeks or months ahead. Returns appear to be available for £100.50 (travelling out tomorrow) or £76.80 (2 or more days ahead), and I'm guessing those aren't available from the driver. (The distance is just over 200 miles, so while not a small sum of money, per mile it's a lot less expensive than the OP's short journey).

If you book through Megabus, "advances" can be had for £30.99 - that appears to be the lowest for 2 weeks+ away, otherwise £42.99 or £43.99 is the price quoted for only a week or so from now.

 

[181]

If you book through Megabus, "advances" can be had for £30.99 - that appears to be the lowest for 2 weeks+ away, otherwise £42.99 or £43.99 is the price quoted for only a week or so from now.

So you get one set of fares from the operator's website (I understand that many Citylink services are actually run by other companies, but Citylink is the entity that they are advertised under), and cheaper fares if you go to a website which doesn't list the route in question (https://www.megabus.co.uk/route-guide/all-route-guides/), and appears to be owned by another company, which is in fact owned by the main one? And they say rail fares are complicated?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A quick look at the website suggests that £59.10 single is the fare, full stop (unkess it costs even more from the driver), for Glasgow-Portree -- nothing cheaper appears to be available even weeks or months ahead. Returns appear to be available for £100.50 (travelling out tomorrow) or £76.80 (2 or more days ahead), and I'm guessing those aren't available from the driver. (The distance is just over 200 miles, so while not a small sum of money, per mile it's a lot less expensive than the OP's short journey).

I think a lot of people forget just how big Scotland is. That doesn't seem an entirely unfair walk up fare from say London to Preston, which is a comparable distance. It's roughly around what the Off Peak Return by train is.

 

[JKP]

So you get one set of fares from the operator's website (I understand that many Citylink services are actually run by other companies, but Citylink is the entity that they are advertised under), and cheaper fares if you go to a website which doesn't list the route in question (https://www.megabus.co.uk/route-guide/all-route-guides/), and appears to be owned by another company, which is in fact owned by the main one? And they say rail fares are complicated?

Citylink at one time only had one coach. This enabled local bus service registrations to be made under the Scottish Citylink name with the routes, drivers and vehicles provided by contractors, much like National Express.

 

[hexagon789]

So you get one set of fares from the operator's website (I understand that many Citylink services are actually run by other companies, but Citylink is the entity that they are advertised under), and cheaper fares if you go to a website which doesn't list the route in question (https://www.megabus.co.uk/route-guide/all-route-guides/), and appears to be owned by another company, which is in fact owned by the main one? And they say rail fares are complicated?

Megabus is owned by Scottish Citylink, it's effectively a sub-brand. It was set up by Stagecoach who own presently 37% hold of the shares in Citylink.

The Megabus website sells tickets for most Citylink routes cheaper than Citylink's mainstream site does.

 

[Deepgreen]

Update - Citylink have responded to my complaint with a full fare refund and an assurance that the "ticket machine error" that caused the problem has been rectified - hmm. My friend, however, was simply told that the fare was correct when he complained that evening! A lottery, it seems...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Megabus website sells tickets for most Citylink routes cheaper than Citylink's mainstream site does.

Having looked recently I don't think that's the case any longer, now they both sell from effectively the same site, it's just got a different "skin" on it depending which URL you go to.

It was the case in the past though.

 

[hexagon789]

Having looked recently I don't think that's the case any longer, now they both sell from effectively the same site, it's just got a different "skin" on it depending which URL you go to.

It was the case in the past though.

You can tell I'm not a frequent user!

 

[Deepgreen]

Instead of buying singles or returns why not have a look at the Explorer pass. A 3 day pass to use on the whole Citylink network is a mere £66. A 5 day pass £98. These appear to be excellent value for money.

Perhaps, but for a one-off, single journey advertised as costing £6.20, but charged at £13.30 (wrongly, it now emerges) a three day pass at £66 is of no use.

 

[Stena Galloway]

Perhaps, but for a one-off, single journey advertised as costing £6.20, but charged at £13.30 (wrongly, it now emerges) a three day pass at £66 is of no use.

In what way were you charged wrongly? You said in your first post you were charged £13.30 after this you then checked the website. You had no idea of the fare until you walked on to the coach.