GWR Bristol - Oxford service

[The Planner]

That is what I figured. Assuming the rest of the route could handle 3tph (which we think it can) - possibly one EWR service terminates at Bletchley instead (or becomes the Bedford one) - if a GWR service ran from Bristol to MKC.

Or that one gets to Northampton/Rugby maybe. Sounds tricky overall though. But then, so does terminating so many services at Oxford. If this goes ahead (and P5 won't exist yet) - it'll be 1tph Bristol and 2tph MKC which is incremental to today turning there. No Cowley news either.

Was there ever any more news (EWR consultation updates?) about the additional line between Bletchley and MKC - and another bay at MKC? And the curve, which i think was mentioned in the same doc - but I think the line is more important.

Nothing is likely between Bletchley and MK. The curve is preliminary work.

 

[John R]

It’s amazing how quickly we go from a very tentative announcement about a Bristol to Oxford service (which would be an massive improvement) and in a few posts we are talking about them possibly going as far as Rugby!

 

[cle]

This isn't the speculative section, so that is fair!

But my real point about terminating new services at Oxford (and 80x need a shade longer to turn) - and the other incoming additional services to Oxford, does overall stand. As does the concept of 'through-running' as a solve to that - and they have to go somewhere

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

This isn't the speculative section, so that is fair!

But my real point about terminating new services at Oxford (and 80x need a shade longer to turn) - and the other incoming additional services to Oxford, does overall stand. As does the concept of 'through-running' as a solve to that - and they have to go somewhere

Terminating at Oxford they will likely go into the Down Carriage Sidings, so only 3-4 minutes platform time required even for terminating.

 

[infobleep]

Terminating at Oxford they will likely go into the Down Carriage Sidings, so only 3-4 minutes platform time required even for terminating.

Would it be possible to go into the platform and turn around in 4 minutes as the trains on the North Downs Line at Gatwick Airport?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Would it be possible to go into the platform and turn around in 4 minutes as the trains on the North Downs Line at Gatwick Airport?

I believe a 5-car 80x needs a minimum of 6 minutes to change ends, but this would not be robust planning for a turnround from Bristol. You’d want 10-15 mins to absorb delay before starting back and the platforms will not accommodate it.

(Gatwick isn’t robust but this is dictated by the Thameslink timetable and available paths - the regulation policy for late running is probably to terminate short at Redhill. There would not be an equivalent option for Oxford.)

 

[zwk500]

I believe a 5-car 80x needs a minimum of 6 minutes to change ends, but this would not be robust planning for a turnround from Bristol. You’d want 10-15 mins to absorb delay before starting back and the platforms will not accommodate it.

(Gatwick isn’t robust but this is dictated by the Thameslink timetable and available paths - the regulation policy for late running is probably to terminate short at Redhill. There would not be an equivalent option for Oxford.)

Turning at Didcot absolutely would be an option, although it'd be as poor for passengers as the North Downs policy of turning at Redhill

Would it be possible to go into the platform and turn around in 4 minutes as the trains on the North Downs Line at Gatwick Airport?

This would also require there to be a gap 4 (or 6, or whatever) minutes after arrival to depart into.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Turning at Didcot absolutely would be an option, although it'd be as poor for passengers as the North Downs policy of turning at Redhill

Only if there is capacity in Didcot platform 3 or 4. A further consideration would be whether the return working is held for a connection from Oxford.

 

[John R]

Turning at Didcot absolutely would be an option, although it'd be as poor for passengers as the North Downs policy of turning at Redhill


This would also require there to be a gap 4 (or 6, or whatever) minutes after arrival to depart into.

A new much heralded Bristol to Oxford service that only went as far as Didcot would be an interesting concept…

 

[zwk500]

Only if there is capacity in Didcot platform 3 or 4. A further consideration would be whether the return working is held for a connection from Oxford.

A new much heralded Bristol to Oxford service that only went as far as Didcot would be an interesting concept…

Agreed on both fronts, but the point being that there is a comparable option to turn short at a station where alternative connections to the final destination exists. I did mention it's not good for passengers!

 

[John R]

Agreed on both fronts, but the point being that there is a comparable option to turn short at a station where alternative connections to the final destination exists. I did mention it's not good for passengers!

But it completely defeats the purpose of having a direct link, which is the only point of the new service.

 

[Benjwri]

Agreed on both fronts, but the point being that there is a comparable option to turn short at a station where alternative connections to the final destination exists. I did mention it's not good for passengers!

of course one might question the logic of running such services given there is already a service that calls at all those stations, and while busy the amount of passengers to and from Didcot does not justify even a 5 car IET. (Admittedly the timing for the connection is terrible, and the shuttle often misses the Bristol train)

 

[The exile]

of course one might question the logic of running such services given there is already a service that calls at all those stations, and while busy the amount of passengers to and from Didcot does not justify even a 5 car IET. (Admittedly the timing for the connection is terrible, and the shuttle often misses the Bristol train)

There would be no logic in planning to run such services, but having the option to terminate short in order to recover from disruption is a different matter - it’s still better than being stranded at Swindon because the train has been cancelled completely.

 

[cle]

It may be close to or past Didcot at a point of delay - ie it avoids it. I don’t think this is an equivalent. And Swindon has more trains calling, inc connections to Reading (which has XC back to Oxford that doesn’t call Didcot). Long though!

Stock question - are there excess IETs, for this to be potentially going to hourly, and daily? Doesn’t something else need those units?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

This isn't the speculative section, so that is fair!

But my real point about terminating new services at Oxford (and 80x need a shade longer to turn) - and the other incoming additional services to Oxford, does overall stand. As does the concept of 'through-running' as a solve to that - and they have to go somewhere

Right now, if you're going to run services from the south through Oxford, it should be to Banbury, to relieve the crush loading caused by CrossCountry dropping their frequency to (mostly) 1tph. In theory this is only meant to be a temporary situation, but XC are showing no signs of resolving it any time soon.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Stock question - are there excess IETs, for this to be potentially going to hourly, and daily? Doesn’t something else need those units?

There certainly aren’t excess sets currently, but as-mentioned upthread somewhere the deployment of Class 175 units into Devon/Cornwall will release a number of 5 car sets and this is one of the ways in which they could be utilised.

 

[infobleep]

I believe a 5-car 80x needs a minimum of 6 minutes to change ends, but this would not be robust planning for a turnround from Bristol. You’d want 10-15 mins to absorb delay before starting back and the platforms will not accommodate it.

(Gatwick isn’t robust but this is dictated by the Thameslink timetable and available paths - the regulation policy for late running is probably to terminate short at Redhill. There would not be an equivalent option for Oxford.)

Gatwick may not be considered robust, but to be fair, quite often it works ok, with naybe a couplebof minutes delay if that.

Of course bigger delays result in the train running late or terminating short at Redhill, as you say. It use to be the norm to terminate short at Redgill but now they do allow them to continue to Gatwick Aiport but not always.

Turning at Didcot absolutely would be an option, although it'd be as poor for passengers as the North Downs policy of turning at Redhill

It may be poor vet that's no reason not to use it.

This would also require there to be a gap 4 (or 6, or whatever) minutes after arrival to depart into.

And would there be such a gap? Does anyone know?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2025 ==

Only if there is capacity in Didcot platform 3 or 4. A further consideration would be whether the return working is held for a connection from Oxford.

Well I'm not aware of the North Downs Line services being held. So for consistency, I'd image they wouldn't be held.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2025 ==

A new much heralded Bristol to Oxford service that only went as far as Didcot would be an interesting concept…

No different to North Downs Line trains going to two an hour to Gatwick Airport and then only being one an hour every time there is any engineering works. Or sometimes terminating short at Redhill due to disurption, although that is less than it use to ɓe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2025 ==

But it completely defeats the purpose of having a direct link, which is the only point of the new service.

If going down this way of thinking, one could argue only running 1 servuce an hour to Gatwick Airport during engineering works defeats the point of the new two trains an hour to Gatwick Airport Sunday service.

It doesnt on the weekends when two trains an hour run. Just as Oxford to Bristol would mostly run to Oxford, but occasionally need to terminate short due to disruption.

 

[John R]

Gatwick may not be considered robust, but to be fair, quite often it works ok, with naybe a couplebof minutes delay if that.

Of course bigger delays result in the train running late or terminating short at Redhill, as you say. It use to be the norm to terminate short at Redgill but now they do allow them to continue to Gatwick Aiport but not always.


It may be poor vet that's no reason not to use it.

And would there be such a gap? Does anyone know?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2025 ==


Well I'm not aware of the North Downs Line services being held. So for consistency, I'd image they wouldn't be held.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2025 ==


No different to North Downs Line trains going to two an hour to Gatwick Airport and then only being one an hour every time there is any engineering works. Or sometimes terminating short at Redhill due to disurption, although that is less than it use to ɓe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2025 ==


If going down this way of thinking, one could argue only running 1 servuce an hour to Gatwick Airport during engineering works defeats the point of the new two trains an hour to Gatwick Airport Sunday service.

It doesnt on the weekends when two trains an hour run. Just as Oxford to Bristol would mostly run to Oxford, but occasionally need to terminate short due to disruption.

I’m not saying that services should never terminate at Didcot due to disruption. Just that to announce with great fanfare a new direct hourly service between Oxford and Bristol and then timetable it only between Didcot and Bristol would be ridiculous and would indeed open the railway to ridicule.

 

[zwk500]

I’m not saying that services should never terminate at Didcot due to disruption. Just that to announce with great fanfare a new direct hourly service between Oxford and Bristol and then timetable it only between Didcot and Bristol would be ridiculous and would indeed open the railway to ridicule.

The use of Didcot was presented as an option to recover service during disruption. It was not suggested to run a Bristol-Didcot advertised service.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Not sure if this is the correct place to say this but I was talking to a friend yesterday who lives in Swindon and she was saying that since she can now get a direct train from Swindon to Oxford - the journey no longer requires a change if I understood correctly - she has started using the service frequently. And this from someone who wouldn't usually think of going anywhere by train...

 

[Benjwri]

Not sure if this is the correct place to say this but I was talking to a friend yesterday who lives in Swindon and she was saying that since she can now get a direct train from Swindon to Oxford - the journey no longer requires a change if I understood correctly - she has started using the service frequently. And this from someone who wouldn't usually think of going anywhere by train...

Yeah, the last few times I have gone to Bath the service has been well used.

 

[Barclay]

Has this trial service ceased operating now? Couldn’t find it in the timetable for Saturday.

 

[JonathanH]

Has this trial service ceased operating now? Couldn’t find it in the timetable for Saturday.

Stock needed elsewhere during the summer.

 

[Snow1964]

Has this trial service ceased operating now? Couldn’t find it in the timetable for Saturday.

Yes has finished, insufficient stock to continue at the moment, as there is more demand in SW for stock in summer months.

There is no published info, on if and when service will return, and if it does how frequent, or if more days will be added. For time being the public info suggests discontinued indefinitely as nothing about resumption is available.

 

[Benjwri]

Yes has finished, insufficient stock to continue at the moment, as there is more demand in SW for stock in summer months.

There is no published info, on if and when service will return, and if it does how frequent, or if more days will be added. For time being the public info suggests discontinued indefinitely as nothing about resumption is available.

I believe the service is planned to resume on the 20th September, similar timings to previously. It is in the WTT as such and bookable on ticketing sites.

 

[Snow1964]

I believe the service is planned to resume on the 20th September, similar timings to previously. It is in the WTT as such and bookable on ticketing sites.

Apologies, had missed it, hadn't checked second half of September

Just looked at Bath - Oxford on 20 Sept
£26.70 return, or £138.70 cheapest First class

strange pricing of 5-6 times for first class (although does appear to be listed as having a trolley service on GWR website), although at that price would expect rather more for that sort of mark up.

 

[Benjwri]

Apologies, had missed it, hadn't checked second half of September

Just looked at Bath - Oxford on 20 Sept
£26.70 return, or £138.70 cheapest First class

strange pricing of 5-6 times for first class (although does appear to be listed as having a trolley service on GWR website), although at that price would expect rather more for that sort of mark up.

I think the pricing is because GWR tend not to do Off Peak singles for first class, so you’ve got the difference between First and Standard, and the difference between Peak and Off Peak combined. They tend only to do Off Peak on First Class returns.

 

[John R]

You can presumably do Weekend First though.

 

[Snow1964]

You can presumably do Weekend First though.

The prices I quoted were returns taken directly from the buy a ticket page on GWR website, weekend First did not appear within the other tickets available, so I used cheapest shown for each class.

 

[Benjwri]

The prices I quoted were taken directly from the buy a ticket page on GWR website, weekend First did not appear within the other tickets available, so I used cheapest shown for each class.

Weekend first is an onboard upgrade, and is available on these services for £20.